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post #1 of 108 Old 03-28-2012, 09:27 AM - Thread Starter
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If I calibrate myself, I need a colorimeter, wouldn't I?

Wouldn't this cost more then the $250-350 a calibrator charges?

Cheers
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post #2 of 108 Old 03-28-2012, 09:37 AM
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I think it would be a little cheaper to have it professionally calibrated. If you are a serious DIYer you might consider buying a meter and the software.
For me getting a meter that is fairly accurate was important. The cost of both was over $500. Calman or ChromaPure have bundles that you can buy at small discount.
Good luck if you chose to buy. It's a great hobby if you like to learn.

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post #3 of 108 Old 03-28-2012, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sefmiller View Post

If I calibrate myself, I need a colorimeter, wouldn't I?

Wouldn't this cost more then the $250-350 a calibrator charges?

Cheers

Short term, it is cheaper to hire someone. Long term and if you you have the time to learn, it is cheaper to DIY as your display will need recalibration down the line.
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post #4 of 108 Old 03-28-2012, 10:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Why will it need recalibrating further down the line?

Can you use the same colorimeter to calibrate a tv & a monitor?
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post #5 of 108 Old 03-28-2012, 11:15 AM
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I would also go DIY if you change your kit now and again, as you will need to adjust calibrations to compensate the differences between old and new sources or a different manufacturer, all output different levels.

Displays age with time, so need a touch up, i do mine every 12 -18months, also change of decor or move to a new house or room will require a fresh calibration.
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post #6 of 108 Old 03-28-2012, 11:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Can you use the same colorimeter to calibrate a tv & a monitor?

What is the cheapest, but still excellent standard, colorimeter? You mentioned software. What software do I need & how much does it cost?

Do the colorimeters not age & need replacing?

Thanks
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post #7 of 108 Old 03-28-2012, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sefmiller View Post

Why will it need recalibrating further down the line?

Can you use the same colorimeter to calibrate a tv & a monitor?

displays drift over time and things like firmware updates may also affect the calibration

also, if you change some of your source components like a new BD player or cable STB that may affect your calibration as well

a good colorimeter and/or spectro can calibrate displays of any kind
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post #8 of 108 Old 03-28-2012, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sefmiller View Post

Can you use the same colorimeter to calibrate a tv & a monitor?

What is the cheapest, but still excellent standard, colorimeter? You mentioned software. What software do I need & how much does it cost?

Do the colorimeters not age & need replacing?

Thanks

the D3 is a good option at around $300

http://store.spectracal.com/consumer...i1display.html

http://store.spectracal.com/consumer...splay-pro.html

http://store.spectracal.com/consumer...n-license.html
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post #9 of 108 Old 03-28-2012, 03:19 PM
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And we have options for calibrating TV and monitors

Derek

CTO / Founder - SpectraCal Inc.
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post #10 of 108 Old 03-29-2012, 01:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Is it true that colorimeter's age over time & need replacing?
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post #11 of 108 Old 03-29-2012, 07:14 AM
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Yes, but the new C6/D3 have sealed optics and are expected to last a much longer time the older entry level designs.
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post #12 of 108 Old 03-29-2012, 09:22 AM
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But the C6/D3 cost more than less expensive colorimeters that need to be replaced in 3 to 5 years.

Once the meter drifts, you won't know it has drifted unless it is so bad you are left with very visible errors after a calibration that "looks" good in the measurement graphs.

So you pay more to get a meter that lasts longer... enough more that you can probably pay for pro calibration two times for what it costs to purchase one of the better meters versus one of the cheaper meters.

There's no easy answer for this question, each person has to decide for themselves.

We often estimate it takes 100 hours of studying calibration and experimenting with your display before you begin getting good calibrations... your first attempts will typically be "off" in some way as you begin to learn how to use the various controls and get a handle on how they interact and such. Some people have a 100 hours to devote to this, some would rather do something else with the time. It's all up to the individual.

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post #13 of 108 Old 03-29-2012, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sefmiller View Post

Is it true that colorimeter's age over time & need replacing?

Yes, but the recommended D3pro is a sealed design which means it will drift significantly less over time unlike older colormeter's (i.e. D2).
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post #14 of 108 Old 03-29-2012, 11:58 AM
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Reading through AVS threads it looks like the popular colorimeter and software packages are:

Xrite i3 (various models & prices)

Three software packages, HCFR (free), Calman, and ChromaPure. The later two being easier to use. That said it looks like the cost of Calman & ChromaPure would be $400 to $500 to calibrate projectors, TVs, and, monitors. There are other Xrite colorimeters that are less expensive but apparently they are not as accurate or last as long.

What about the newer versions of other colorimeters like the Spyer4 Elite, or the Pantone/Huey? The Huey seems to be the most popular on Amazon based on the number of reviews. And, why is the software noted above better than the software that comes with say the Spyder4 Elite or Xrite? Spyder advertises it will calibrate projectors and the colorimeter is more accurate than its predecessor. Does anyone have experience with the Spyer4 Elite and what am I missing? I just want to purchase something that will help me calibrate my projector and TVs. I've used the WoW disk (via PS3) and I am not real happy with the results. The TV looks fine the projector/RS40 not so... I am okay with springing for $250 but $500 seems like a bit much - maybe I'll change my mind as I research this more... Please advise/help.
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post #15 of 108 Old 03-29-2012, 12:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post


a good colorimeter and/or spectro can calibrate displays of any kind

Is both ideal. Which is better individually a colorimeter or a spectrometer?
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post #16 of 108 Old 03-29-2012, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sefmiller View Post

Is both ideal. Which is better individually a colorimeter or a spectrometer?

A colorimeter is cheap, fast but needs recalibrating more often, spectro is more expensive but accurate and stays accurate for longer, however it is slow and not as accurate in lower/dark IRE measurements.

You can profile a colorimeter to a spectro and have a fast and accurate sensor in one.
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post #17 of 108 Old 03-29-2012, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sefmiller View Post

Is both ideal. Which is better individually a colorimeter or a spectrometer?

What is meant by better??
Spectro will be accurate on all light sources.
Colorimeter (a good one) will be more accurate at the lower light output of 10 and 20%
However the colorimeter relies on adjustment tables which are not perfect and in some cases off a good bit.
So you profile the colorimeter with the spectro and you get a more accurate meter..

What is profiling? The spectro is set up on your display, the software will do the hard part. You will display the appropriate white, Red, Blue and Green pattern and readings are taken by with the spectro. Then you colorimeter is put in the same spot and the same readings are taken. The software figures out the differences between the 2 (spectro being the reference meter and assumed correct) and makes an offset table that is then used from that point on with the colorimeter on the current display. This offset is only accurate for the display you make it on.

I thought I would be happy with the C6 Colorimeter, it is a nice meter and fairly accurate on some light sources and will give you a way better image in the end than out of box.. BUT once you get it and get your set calibrated, you start to wonder.. is it really accurate? I now have an i1pro to profile it with and know it is as good as I can get for what I can afford.

Please note: The i1pro will work just fine as the one and only meter and can be found used for less than the C6 or D3. If I didn't have a projector and was only going to be doing direct view sets for myself, I would just go with the a used i1pro for DIY. This is my hind sight, but as it is, I do have a projector so now that I have both I am content with the C6/i1pro and Calman.
Hope that help... it's an investment in tools or gear for a hobby just like a new set of golf clubs would be..
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post #18 of 108 Old 03-29-2012, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footfault View Post

Reading through AVS threads it looks like the popular colorimeter and software packages are:

Xrite i3 (various models & prices)

Three software packages, HCFR (free), Calman, and ChromaPure. The later two being easier to use. That said it looks like the cost of Calman & ChromaPure would be $400 to $500 to calibrate projectors, TVs, and, monitors. There are other Xrite colorimeters that are less expensive but apparently they are not as accurate or last as long.

What about the newer versions of other colorimeters like the Spyer4 Elite, or the Pantone/Huey? The Huey seems to be the most popular on Amazon based on the number of reviews. And, why is the software noted above better than the software that comes with say the Spyder4 Elite or Xrite? Spyder advertises it will calibrate projectors and the colorimeter is more accurate than its predecessor. Does anyone have experience with the Spyer4 Elite and what am I missing? I just want to purchase something that will help me calibrate my projector and TVs. I've used the WoW disk (via PS3) and I am not real happy with the results. The TV looks fine the projector/RS40 not so... I am okay with springing for $250 but $500 seems like a bit much - maybe I'll change my mind as I research this more... Please advise/help.

I have been using a verified Spyder 3 for a while and now have a Spyder 4 Elite. The Spyder 4 is more accurate than the 3 but at $250 you cannot do TV's easily with the packaged software (it's $100 extra for their TV software add-on). I figured out ways to manipulate their mostly automated software for manual TV use but since JohnAd has been working on updating HCFR the Spyder 4 has become a much more viable cost effective solution (their least expensive express version should work just fine with HCFR3 so for about $120 you can 'jump in' and see if DIY is for you). The express does not have the ambient sensor like the Pro and Elite versions do but I don't think HCFR incorporates it anyway (besides that with many displays now having their own built in ambient sensors it becomes less of a concern having it built into the sensor which would require Day & Night calibrations). I am probably going to return the Elite for a verified 4 Enhanced since the added expense was of no benefit to me due to their software limitations (plus the Elite package at $250 is in i1D3 territory). The thing with the Spyder 3/4 sensor is they are an excellent color meter due to their design (providing you get an accurate unit). The Spyder 4 is also now designed to last longer (less drift over time) as well as being more consistently accurate versus the Spyder 3 (the 3's were really luck of the draw unless you ordered a verified unit, although not nearly as bad as the Spyder 2's... Datacolor has improved their meters every generation).

HCFR is not difficult to learn, so I would not let that stop you from giving it a shot (especially considering the cost of admission).

That said the i1D3 is probably the best built cost effective color-meter out there, I plan to order one in the near future.

Best of luck,
Jason
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post #19 of 108 Old 03-31-2012, 10:48 AM
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Thank you for the advice... I took the jump, I purchased CalMan/Spyder4 package. I understand the Spyder4 will be tested and calibrated. I was going to purchase ChromaPure/i1 because the reviews indicated a simpler process. Jerry at CalMan assured me their new software was just as simple/guided process and he would provide support if needed. In addition, they have the Spyder4 in a package on sale now. Thanks...
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post #20 of 108 Old 03-31-2012, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footfault View Post

Thank you for the advice... I took the jump, I purchased CalMan/Spyder4 package. I understand the Spyder4 will be tested and calibrated. I was going to purchase ChromaPure/i1 because the reviews indicated a simpler process. Jerry at CalMan assured me their new software was just as simple/guided process and he would provide support if needed. In addition, they have the Spyder4 in a package on sale now. Thanks...

You should have gone with the i1 Display 3...much, MUCH better, especially at lower IRE levels.
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post #21 of 108 Old 03-31-2012, 02:20 PM
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Not too late to change, is it????

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post #22 of 108 Old 03-31-2012, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilgore View Post

You should have gone with the i1 Display 3...much, MUCH better, especially at lower IRE levels.

Actually the Spyder 4 can get very accurate reads down low and even the i1D3 does not get 100% accurate reads down to < 10 IRE. Please do not base what is known of previous Spyder meters on current and/or future Datacolor meters (many people base their current opinions on Datacolor's previous offerings without any real world experience of their current products, which are improved each generation, just as the i1 meters). Now obviously I am not saying the Spyder 4 is better than the i1D3 but it is a very capable meter and people need to stop making comments based upon Spyder 2's & 3's (even the 3 was very capable if you had a verified unit, and the 4 is even more so).

Obviously if the added investment is of no concern then go with the i1D3. If you get to a point, after getting your feet wet, that you desire more you can always add a spectro to your arsenal and create a profile for the color-meter (which ever meter that may be).

Best of luck,
Jason
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post #23 of 108 Old 03-31-2012, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post

Actually the Spyder 4 can get very accurate reads down low and even the i1D3 does not get 100% accurate reads down to < 10 IRE. Please do not base what is known of previous Spyder meters on current and/or future Datacolor meters (many people base their current opinions on Datacolor's previous offerings without any real world experience of their current products, which are improved each generation, just as the i1 meters). Now obviously I am not saying the Spyder 4 is better than the i1D3 but it is a very capable meter and people need to stop making comments based upon Spyder 2's & 3's (even the 3 was very capable if you had a verified unit, and the 4 is even more so).

Obviously if the added investment is of no concern then go with the i1D3. If you get to a point, after getting your feet wet, that you desire more you can always add a spectro to your arsenal and create a profile for the color-meter (which ever meter that may be).

Best of luck,
Jason

even the SpectraCal people will tell you the D3 is on an another level compared to the new enhanced spyder4 (and they sell both); it should not shock anyone given the prices of each

http://store.spectracal.com/consumer/meters.html
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post #24 of 108 Old 03-31-2012, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

even the SpectraCal people will tell you the D3 is on an another level compared to the new enhanced spyder4 (and they sell both); it should not shock anyone given the prices of each

http://store.spectracal.com/consumer/meters.html

Sure it's the better meter, did not imply it was not, but just as you mention the price difference is there and the Spyder 4 is still very capable and very accurate if you get a verified unit. My point is people should not so easily discount the Spyder 4 as it can still produce excellent results. I had a verified Spyder 3 that did color within delta 1 of a reference meter, we tested it.

My point is that the Spyder's have a bad rap since the earlier models and people seem to keep carrying that over to each generation even though they are continually improved.


Two very cost effective DIY options thanks to Spectracal...

* That Enhanced Spyder 4 with CalMan v4 is an excellent way to get going on DIY calibration and I would bet that Spectracal would not be selling it if they were not convinced it was capable of solid results.

* I would also have to guess that the Enhanced 4 (meter only) will work with HCFR since even the retail 4's do by using a different driver (this will save some $ and require a bit more time to learn the HCFR software).

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post #25 of 108 Old 03-31-2012, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post

I had a verified Spyder 3 that did color within delta 1 of a reference meter, we tested it.

Interesting indeed, but was that on only one specific display or perhaps one specific display type? I wouldn't consider such results typical for any colorimeter under $1000 across all displays and display types. I'm sure my $700 C6 has larger errors than 1.0 at least on some displays like LED-LCDs, possibly much larger.
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Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post

* I would also have to guess that the Enhanced 4 (meter only) will work with HCFR since even the retail 4's do by using a different driver (this will save some $ and require a bit more time to learn the HCFR software).

The enhanced tables would only work with CalMAN AND by history, enhanced meters sold my CalMAN never work with other software like ChromaPure or HCFR (I believe they are firmware locked). My C6 is one example of such a meter.
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post #27 of 108 Old 04-01-2012, 12:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

Interesting indeed, but was that on only one specific display or perhaps one specific display type? I wouldn't consider such results typical for any colorimeter under $1000 across all displays and display types. I'm sure my $700 C6 has larger errors than 1.0 at least on some displays like LED-LCDs, possibly much larger.

It was on a reference sRGB monitor and a Sharp XV-Z12000 mkII DLP actually so varying display types with similar results. Oh yes I do not doubt that it would not hold consistent across every tech but the point here being that it had the ability to get that close at the cost of admission (which to me says all that needs to be said). Are there better meters, of course, but when you can get 90+ % of the way there for 1/2, 1/3, 1/4 the cost it's a great value for those looking to 'jump in' and even those like myself with years of experience (I have always been a best bang for the buck consumer and know I am not alone).

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

The enhanced tables would only work with CalMAN AND by history, enhanced meters sold my CalMAN never work with other software like ChromaPure or HCFR (I believe they are firmware locked). My C6 is one example of such a meter.

That's good to know as I was about to order the S4e meter alone, I'll now grab the Calman/S4e package (which will hopefully be functional with an i1D3/Pro meter when I order one of those in the near future). Although Datacolor locks their meter to their software as well once activated but the S4 meter can still be used with the new HCFR 3 + supplied driver (so who knows..?).

Curious though if you have actually tried your C6 with the new HCFR 3?

Thanks for the input,
Jason
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post #28 of 108 Old 04-04-2012, 09:49 AM
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I just saw Eye-one UVcut version. Is it different than the Eye-pro spectro?
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post #29 of 108 Old 04-04-2012, 12:04 PM
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Curious though if you have actually tried your C6 with the new HCFR 3?

It won't work.

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post #30 of 108 Old 04-04-2012, 12:31 PM
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I just saw Eye-one UVcut version. Is it different than the Eye-pro spectro?

The UVcut is just a filter for the internal lamp that removes UV light from the lamp so fluorescents don't effect measurements for print. Emissive measurements work exactly the same as with the standard i1 Pro.

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