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post #31 of 50 Old 02-18-2013, 10:18 AM
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There's an eerie feeling that logical posts in this thread are invisible.

Maybe these thread participants need another coffee colon cleanse, a spirit reading, some crystal therapy, and aroma therapy to drag them kicking and screaming back into THIS dimension so logical posts become legible again.

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post #32 of 50 Old 02-18-2013, 12:28 PM
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post #33 of 50 Old 02-18-2013, 12:30 PM
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post #34 of 50 Old 02-18-2013, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn View Post

This whole discussion is really a waste of time. My "fleshtone" is different in the winter and summer. Which one are you going to use? What if you pick a "fleshtone" "reference" that makes Asian, Latin, African, or middle eastern fleshtones look wrong? Is your fleshtone reference for fleshtones inside under incandescent light? Or outdoors? If it is outdoors... was it a sunny day or cloudy day (you'll get a very different reference either way)? Were there a lot of trees (adding a lot of extra green to the light)? Were the walls painted blue (which will add blue to the fleshtone reference)? What was the time of day you decided on for your fleshtone reference? Because any other time of day will make the fleshtone different (the sun moves and the shadows will move). There are a bazillion variables... which means ZERO "references".

The only way you're ever going to get images to look righ is via calibration with a meter and software and a reference video source... either do it yourself or hire a pro. Otherwise everything you do is a TOTAL guess and is about 99% certain to fail your objective. What if you make your reference fleshtone look (what you think is) right, but stop signs then look too orange. You think that won't bother you? Or what if your perfect "fleshtone" adjustment makes grass look too blue? You'll be happy with that? That's the kind of thing that happens when you muck around doing things without the guidance of a meter, software and an accurate pattern source. When you get red, green, blue, yellow, cyan, and magenta as accurate as your TV can make them, and when you get the grayscale and gamma as accurate as your TV can make them, THEN the fleshtones (all of them from every corner of the globe. every time of year, every lighting condition) will be as accurate as they can be. And that is the ONLY time ALL fleshtones will be that accurate at the same time.

if someone wants to see how their display maps out various colors beyond RGBCMY, something like the 24-point colorchecker in CalMAN 5 is worth trying out... If fact I believe it has 'dark skin' and 'light skin' as two of the colors


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post #35 of 50 Old 02-18-2013, 04:03 PM
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"And that is the ONLY time ALL fleshtones will be that accurate at the same time."

Except of course most channels do have some kind of funny colour going on. So even if you calibrate your screen still get the orange skin effect.

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post #36 of 50 Old 02-19-2013, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

if someone wants to see how their display maps out various colors beyond RGBCMY, something like the 24-point colorchecker in CalMAN 5 is worth trying out... If fact I believe it has 'dark skin' and 'light skin' as two of the colors

Exactly the method i use.

1. Set your gamut to hit colour RGBCYM points.
2. Use saturation patterns and calibrate to ensure 25-75 are as accurate as possible.
3. Confirm and check dE's using colour checker.

Using this method my 100% are slightly off but the 25-75 are pretty good. dE's using colour checker are genrally under 1 with the exception of a couple of blue patterns where its more like 1.4.

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post #37 of 50 Old 02-19-2013, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by fatbottom View Post

"And that is the ONLY time ALL fleshtones will be that accurate at the same time."

Except of course most channels do have some kind of funny colour going on. So even if you calibrate your screen still get the orange skin effect.

I don't know what's wrong with the TV service you have over there, but over here, that's rarely an issue. CSI-Miami and Smallville and a few other shows intentionally over-saturate colors or shift color a little, but that is not too common. And when the TV program is shot that way INTENTIONALLY, it's not our job at home to try to un-do what the people who created the show intended for us to see. AND... fleshtones of all types have different appearances under different kinds of lighting... there are probably 10 or 20 general categories of interior light and an infinite variety of outdoor conditions that all make fleshtones look a little different. So it is 100% normal to perceive fleshtones differently in different programs... because the programs are created that way.
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post #38 of 50 Old 02-19-2013, 11:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatbottom View Post

"And that is the ONLY time ALL fleshtones will be that accurate at the same time."

Except of course most channels do have some kind of funny colour going on. So even if you calibrate your screen still get the orange skin effect.

Really? As youre based in blighty, as i am myself, can i ask via what media you watch TV?

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post #39 of 50 Old 02-20-2013, 02:31 AM
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From channel flipping. Go on one channel and it looks like they've employed oompa loompas. So to make it look realistic then reduce colour, but then put it back afterwards. Some channels are too dark, (black level) so need to adjust brightness.

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post #40 of 50 Old 02-20-2013, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatbottom View Post

From channel flipping. Go on one channel and it looks like they've employed oompa loompas. So to make it look realistic then reduce colour, but then put it back afterwards. Some channels are too dark, (black level) so need to adjust brightness.

Sky, Freesat, Freeview, cable, SD or HD broadcasts?
TBH i dont have any issues with HD channels via Freesat, all look fine colour wise.
What display do you have and is it calibrated ?

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post #41 of 50 Old 02-20-2013, 09:31 PM
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Ive seen a few people say they wish they could reduce the red in skin tones so maybe the better setting is reducing flesh tone control on tv if anything.It does affect sd different from hd I'm pretty sure.
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post #42 of 50 Old 02-21-2013, 01:37 AM
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Ive seen a few people say they wish they could reduce the red in skin tones so maybe the better setting is reducing flesh tone control on tv if anything.It does affect sd different from hd I'm pretty sure.

That sounds like red push, a colour decoder problem? I would like to sort that out too. But by doing so it knocks all other colours out, it interacts with other colours and greyscale.

It is a pain in the backside.

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post #43 of 50 Old 02-21-2013, 08:45 AM
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That sounds like red push, a colour decoder problem? I would like to sort that out too. But by doing so it knocks all other colours out, it interacts with other colours and greyscale.

It is a pain in the backside.

To be clear you have a display without CMS?
Out of curiostiy which display do you have?

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post #44 of 50 Old 02-21-2013, 11:49 AM
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post #45 of 50 Old 02-21-2013, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatbottom View Post

That sounds like red push, a colour decoder problem? I would like to sort that out too. But by doing so it knocks all other colours out, it interacts with other colours and greyscale.

It is a pain in the backside.

Unfortunately you have to deal with it if you want flesh tones to look real. The 2011 Panasonic VT30 plasma is a good example. mad.gif

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post #46 of 50 Old 02-21-2013, 01:33 PM
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Unfortunately you have to deal with it if you want flesh tones to look real. The 2011 Panasonic VT30 plasma is a good example. mad.gif

yeah had it on a couple of tv's, lcd, crt. toshiba, sharp, samsung, lg. Something red looks way too red, ie the red monoprice advert on this site.

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post #47 of 50 Old 02-21-2013, 06:02 PM
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I'm with Doug on this one (as mentioned in a previous post...)
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post #48 of 50 Old 02-21-2013, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

Unfortunately you have to deal with it if you want flesh tones to look real. The 2011 Panasonic VT30 plasma is a good example. mad.gif

Maybe the US VT30 but the Uk verion as no 'skin tone' issues, i know as i own one.

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post #49 of 50 Old 02-22-2013, 01:40 AM
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Maybe the US VT30 but the Uk verion as no 'skin tone' issues, i know as i own one.

Could be NTSC issue

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post #50 of 50 Old 02-22-2013, 05:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn View Post

I don't know what's wrong with the TV service you have over there, but over here, that's rarely an issue. CSI-Miami and Smallville and a few other shows intentionally over-saturate colors or shift color a little, but that is not too common. And when the TV program is shot that way INTENTIONALLY, it's not our job at home to try to un-do what the people who created the show intended for us to see. AND... fleshtones of all types have different appearances under different kinds of lighting... there are probably 10 or 20 general categories of interior light and an infinite variety of outdoor conditions that all make fleshtones look a little different. So it is 100% normal to perceive fleshtones differently in different programs... because the programs are created that way.

Seemingly different in the USA, but in UK my satellite channels vary in bitrate, compression, sound output, encryption and other source and/or transmission variables.
My Sky STB insists on deinterlacing (badly) SD channels then outputs only RGB for all of its hundreds of channels.

Frankly I marvel at how good the PQ is no matter what channel I view but it is not surprising to see differences between them.
Perhaps dwelling on only skin colours is wrong because general variation in PQ is the real issue.

Now if we were talking about my Oppo Blu Ray output that really is a different thing altogether, and we can then expect a constant output from this player.
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