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post #31 of 93 Old 04-17-2012, 08:32 PM
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I am using version 4.5.0341, that is the version I have the problem on.

I'll just wait for DG-Pimp to test and see if he figures it out before I re-install any other versions.


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post #32 of 93 Old 04-20-2012, 04:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Will be checking into this more tonight, i1Pro just arrived today so I'll have another point of reference to verify colorimeter vs spectro vs software.

Jason
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post #33 of 93 Old 04-20-2012, 07:05 PM
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Yes, please let me know, I don't have an i1Pro so it's harder for me to figure it out.


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post #34 of 93 Old 04-21-2012, 04:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Well I was not able to figure much out last night with my testing, it seems that true verification may require the spectro add-on license but I obviously don't wish to make that investment only to discover that I am still having the erratic errors.

It would be great if there was a short trial license or something of that nature so that people could see first hand if everything is functioning as it should. I might consider buying the add-on license if I knew they would be willing to refund it should things not end up functioning properly.

At this point HCFR 2.1 functions properly with the i1Pro, HCFR 3 still has some bugs they are working on and I have the issues with Calman so I am not sure what my next step should be (don't want to invest in Chroma-pure after just investing in CalMan).

Jason
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post #35 of 93 Old 04-21-2012, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post

It would be great if there was a short trial license or something of that nature so that people could see first hand if everything is functioning as it should. I might consider buying the add-on license if I knew they would be willing to refund it should things not end up functioning properly.

Call up our sales dept on monday, they can do trial keys.

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post #36 of 93 Old 04-21-2012, 04:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

Call up our sales dept on monday, they can do trial keys.

Ah that's exactly what I need, thank you Joel!

* Got the trial and will be digging into it over the next couple days. Thanks again Joel (and special thanks to Loel and Jamie).

Jason
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post #37 of 93 Old 04-26-2012, 02:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Still working on this...

Getting very different results/settings between CalMan and HCFR (both using an i1Pro profiled i1D3).

CalMan was giving me very odd greyscale reads requiring a drastic amount of green adjustment while HCFR seemed very consistent with what other Pro calibrations have shown (regarding greyscale).

I plan to run through it a few more times to make sure I have considered every possible variable and show more repeatability before making any definitive conclusions.

Jason
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post #38 of 93 Old 04-26-2012, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post

Still working on this...

Getting very different results/settings between CalMan and HCFR (both using an i1Pro profiled i1D3).

CalMan was giving me very odd greyscale reads requiring a drastic amount of green adjustment while HCFR seemed very consistent with what other Pro calibrations have shown (regarding greyscale).

I plan to run through it a few more times to make sure I have considered every possible variable and show more repeatability before making any definitive conclusions.

Jason

Did you see sotti's post that black level compensation is "flat out broke" in the current version?
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post #39 of 93 Old 04-26-2012, 03:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djams View Post

Did you see sotti's post that black level compensation is "flat out broke" in the current version?

Yes and that is not enabled, thank you for the post though.

Jason
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post #40 of 93 Old 04-26-2012, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djams View Post

Did you see sotti's post that black level compensation is "flat out broke" in the current version?

Black Level Compensation Calculations Fixed, Get the Latest Version.

CalMAN 4.6.1 Release Notes

Released April 25, 2012

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Added PDP table to the Spyder4 meter

Added OLED table to the K-10

Added watchdog timer to the Sharp Elite when connected over IP

Fixed localization issue when profiling meters

Fixed issue where CalMAN was not calculating targets when Black Light Compensation was enabled

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post #41 of 93 Old 04-26-2012, 04:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh, an update... nice!

Will try it out, thank you ConnecTEDDD for the heads up!

* CalMan is telling me I have the latest version at 4.6.0.368.

** Downloaded 4.6.1 from website http://store.spectracal.com/downloads.html

Jason
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post #42 of 93 Old 04-26-2012, 04:51 PM
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We just pushed 4.6.1 yesterday, we usually wait to update the in app notification for a day or two just in case something nasty shows up in the field.

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post #43 of 93 Old 04-26-2012, 04:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Will installing update over the previous install have any negative effect or should I do a clean install?

Thanks Joel,
Jason
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post #44 of 93 Old 04-26-2012, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post

Will installing update over the previous install have any negative effect or should I do a clean install?

Thanks Joel,
Jason

installing over the top should work fine, effectively the installer does an uninstall/re-install anyway.

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post #45 of 93 Old 04-26-2012, 05:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Nice, thanks again Joel!

I am so very thankful to have you and Derek here, your support has been excellent to say the least!

Jason
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post #46 of 93 Old 04-27-2012, 06:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok, so what I have figured out so far is that CalMan shows read issues from the initial readings to the greyscale reads. I can take all the initial reads touching no settings on the display and jump right to greyscale with different results. As an example the initial read would say red @ 20 IRE was at 98 yet the greyscale graphic read shows red as being way too high (between 20 & 40 in the box). Should Red not be showing slightly below 0 in that box if the initial read claimed it was at 98, if this is normal then it is not very straight forward? It exhibited similar behavior on all 3 colors with the Blue reads being more truthful from initial to greyscale, at least both reads claimed Blue was too high (not a single setting touched on the display).

This is with an i1Pro corrected i1D3 and CalMan 4.6.1.

Jason
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post #47 of 93 Old 04-27-2012, 08:46 AM
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I think what you may be seeing is the difference between RGB relative and RGB absolute.

When the chart is in relative mode it balances against 100%, but doesn't include overall luminance.

When the chart is in absolute mode it balances at 0, and if you have too much luminance you'll be above 0, too little and you're below 0.

So if you have 2 point grayscale controls using relative is the right thing to do since you can't change your gamma with a 2 point control.

If you have a 10 point or more system, then using absolute gives you better information so that you can correct your gamma as well.

At least that was my best interpretation of your post. If you could post screens shots I might have a more specific answer to what you're seeing.

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post #48 of 93 Old 04-27-2012, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post

Ok, so what I have figured out so far is that CalMan shows read issues from the initial readings to the greyscale reads. I can take all the initial reads touching no settings on the display and jump right to greyscale with different results. As an example the initial read would say red @ 20 IRE was at 98 yet the greyscale graphic read shows red as being way too high (between 20 & 40 in the box). Should Red not be showing slightly below 0 in that box if the initial read claimed it was at 98, if this is normal then it is not very straight forward? It exhibited similar behavior on all 3 colors with the Blue reads being more truthful from initial to greyscale, at least both reads claimed Blue was too high (not a single setting touched on the display).

This is with an i1Pro corrected i1D3 and CalMan 4.6.1.

Jason

could you use the print button and something like PrimoPDF to post your data in PDF format?
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post #49 of 93 Old 04-27-2012, 02:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

I think what you may be seeing is the difference between RGB relative and RGB absolute.

When the chart is in relative mode it balances against 100%, but doesn't include overall luminance.

When the chart is in absolute mode it balances at 0, and if you have too much luminance you'll be above 0, too little and you're below 0.

So if you have 2 point grayscale controls using relative is the right thing to do since you can't change your gamma with a 2 point control.

If you have a 10 point or more system, then using absolute gives you better information so that you can correct your gamma as well.

At least that was my best interpretation of your post. If you could post screens shots I might have a more specific answer to what you're seeing.

Ah, that sounds like it explains what I am seeing then. The current 'test' display has 2 point greyscale so I'll set it for 'relative' and see how it goes (and then test one of my other displays that has 10 point with 'absolute').

One other quick Q, considering greyscale should typically be done first why is Gamut before Greyscale in the standard workflow?

Thanks again Joel,
Jason
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post #50 of 93 Old 04-27-2012, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post

One other quick Q, considering greyscale should typically be done first why is Gamut before Greyscale in the standard workflow?

ISF teaches gamut before grayscale
THX teaches grayscale before gamut

The workflows were based off of the specific ones we did for ISF. Really either way you need to double check the other because their can be interactions.

When I calibrate I do grayscale work first, then gamut, then double check everything.

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post #51 of 93 Old 04-27-2012, 02:34 PM - Thread Starter
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I see, it was politics . I have always done greyscale first and then spend a good bit of time balancing back and forth once gamut has been completed (always seems to work well for me).

By the way have another Q in another thread regarding the i1Pro http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1406603 , you probably know the answer.

Does the i1Pro use the internal lamp for emissive reads at all, do we need to worry (for our use) that it fails a lamp test when using longer usb cables?

Thank You!
Jason
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post #52 of 93 Old 04-27-2012, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post

Does the i1Pro use the internal lamp for emissive reads at all, do we need to worry (for our use) that it fails a lamp test when using longer usb cables?

The lamp is strictly for reflective readings.

If you are having problems with a long USB cable I'd recommend going and grabbing a powered USB hub.

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post #53 of 93 Old 04-27-2012, 04:02 PM - Thread Starter
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That's what I figured (didn't want to assume) but thanks for the confirmation Joel.

Jason
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post #54 of 93 Old 05-02-2012, 05:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Some odd behavior with 4.6.1...

Doing auto greyscale read sequence yields different results than manual reads.

I did 80/20 @ .313 x .329 and then running the auto 10 step showed all reads close to delta 3 , yet with each step done manually all but 100 IRE is under delta 1.

Just wanted to pass it along, may be a bug (?).

Jason
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post #55 of 93 Old 05-02-2012, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post

Some odd behavior with 4.6.1...

Doing auto greyscale read sequence yields different results than manual reads.

I did 80/20 @ .313 x .329 and then running the auto 10 step showed all reads close to delta 3 , yet with each step done manually all but 100 IRE is under delta 1.

Just wanted to pass it along, may be a bug (?).

Jason

If this happens then it might be you need a longer source delay, in that the pattern has not settled before a reading starts. On the sources advanced you will see a delay we put in by default try adding a couple of seconds to that delay.

Derek

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post #56 of 93 Old 05-02-2012, 02:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derekjsmith View Post

If this happens then it might be you need a longer source delay, in that the pattern has not settled before a reading starts. On the sources advanced you will see a delay we put in by default try adding a couple of seconds to that delay.

Excellent, will do.

Thank You Derek!

Jason
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post #57 of 93 Old 05-08-2012, 06:48 AM
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Hi,

What is "black compensation" used for and what probes does it affect/work with?

Walter
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post #58 of 93 Old 05-08-2012, 09:01 AM
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Hi,

What is "black compensation" used for and what probes does it affect/work with?

It factors in the black level of a display when calculating gamma; it works with any meter that can accurately read a 0% black pattern from the display.
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post #59 of 93 Old 05-08-2012, 09:46 AM
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How does this play into a manual calibrations? I thought I remembered reading this was going to be for autocal, but that was back before it was even functional.

So from your description, it just uses the actual reading at 0 percent to calculate gamma rather than assuming 0? This being used with absolute charts and the Target _Y when doing gamma/grayscale?
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post #60 of 93 Old 05-08-2012, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airscapes View Post

How does this play into a manual calibrations? I thought I remembered reading this was going to be for autocal, but that was back before it was even functional.

this feature is not specific to auto or manual calibrations... it can be used either way

Quote:
Originally Posted by airscapes View Post

So from your description, it just uses the actual reading at 0 percent to calculate gamma rather than assuming 0? This being used with absolute charts and the Target _Y when doing gamma/grayscale?

yes, and the higher the black level of the display, the greater the impact this feature will have on low-end gamma
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