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post #31 of 42 Old 05-02-2012, 12:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by techfreak191 View Post

Hmm, interesting info.

I've tried googling detailed info on settings with regard to my model: it's a Bravia KLV-40S400A. Turned up practically nothing.

By the way, there's a little latch the left side of my panel that says 'service only'. Will that give me access to more advanced settings normally not found in the display menu?
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post #32 of 42 Old 05-02-2012, 12:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sotti View Post

Calibration may or may not reduce banding. There are so many variables it's hard to say yes or no. 10bit panels should reduce banding introduced by processing. The processing is going to happen any way. With 8bit you've got 255 steps, if in the calibration process you need to adjust the size of a step, well then you'll have to have fewer steps. With 10bit panels, that's not a problem. But video only uses 220 step anyway 16-235, and cutting a few steps doesn't make a huge difference, so 8bits can be very good.

But back to my original post, none of that matters if the source has banding in it.

Since you are watching your console, then everything you're watching is pretty heavily compressed. OTA HDTV is suppose to be 20mbits per second, compressed internet streams at "HD" quality are typically only 3-5mbps. How do they shrink it? Some is fancy algorithims, but mostly it's throwing away subtle data. Blu-Rays use the same fancy algorithims as compressed internet streams but use 35mbps. That missing data is what causes banding, Blu-Rays have 10x the amount of data in every frame compared to streaming video.

Let's discuss banding with regard to HD games and DVD movies. 8-bit is more than enough, especially if your screen in properly calibrated, aye?
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post #33 of 42 Old 05-02-2012, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by techfreak191 View Post

Let's discuss banding with regard to HD games and DVD movies. 8-bit is more than enough, especially if your screen in properly calibrated, aye?

A properly calibrate high quality 8bit display can display 8 bit content at full fidelity.


As to increasing bit depth for sources. I'd love to see it, but getting whole industries to move at once is quite the process. I believe most people in video production believe 8bits is not enough and will eventually be replaced when the infrastructure is ready for the content.

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post #34 of 42 Old 05-02-2012, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by techfreak191 View Post

Er.. right. So you're saying 10-bit panels do not exhibit banding in games and movies?

No he's saying that good displays are good and bad displays are bad. Panel bit-depth is only a component of a display and doesn't indicate anything else.

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post #35 of 42 Old 05-02-2012, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by techfreak191 View Post

By the way, there's a little latch the left side of my panel that says 'service only'. Will that give me access to more advanced settings normally not found in the display menu?

Possibly. But it says Service Only for a reason. That may be a direct connect to the Service Menu instead of the remote control key combination that so many are fond of, but accessing the SM is widely regarded as something one should not do unless you really know what you're doing because it's very easy to brick a tv.
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post #36 of 42 Old 05-03-2012, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by techfreak191 View Post

Er.. right. So you're saying 10-bit panels do not exhibit banding in games and movies?

No, I'm not saying that. If the source is encoded with contouring, the display will show what is encoded. Some movies do have contouring encoded in the movie.

I've seen one display so far (could be others I haven't seen), the $25,000 Sony VLP-VW1000ES projector, that has a control that will remove or reduce contouring present in the source. Other displays simply show what is encoded in the source without trying to fix it.

When you compress the crap out of video (cable and satellite), contouring is inevitable because it can't be avoided in 6 or 7 bit sources.

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post #37 of 42 Old 05-04-2012, 07:45 AM - Thread Starter
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No, I'm not saying that. If the source is encoded with contouring, the display will show what is encoded. Some movies do have contouring encoded in the movie.

I've seen one display so far (could be others I haven't seen), the $25,000 Sony VLP-VW1000ES projector, that has a control that will remove or reduce contouring present in the source. Other displays simply show what is encoded in the source without trying to fix it.

When you compress the crap out of video (cable and satellite), contouring is inevitable because it can't be avoided in 6 or 7 bit sources.

Have you often noticed contouring in games?
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post #38 of 42 Old 05-04-2012, 09:16 AM
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Have you often noticed contouring in games?

yes games can have countrouring and banding. They compress the textures, only have a finite amount of space to pack them in. Those textures get stretched and scaled. And then they only have a 24bit buffer (8bit per channel) to read/write the values.

So once again the display is only as good as the content.

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post #39 of 42 Old 05-06-2012, 10:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sotti View Post

yes games can have countrouring and banding. They compress the textures, only have a finite amount of space to pack them in. Those textures get stretched and scaled. And then they only have a 24bit buffer (8bit per channel) to read/write the values.

So once again the display is only as good as the content.

PS3 games have the freedom of being stored on a higher capacity media. To your knowledge, would you say PS3 games have less banding or no banding at all? I know for a fact, that PC games have banding too, no matter how good your graphics accelerator or monitor is.
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post #40 of 42 Old 05-10-2012, 02:04 AM - Thread Starter
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post #41 of 42 Old 05-10-2012, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by techfreak191 View Post

PS3 games have the freedom of being stored on a higher capacity media. To your knowledge, would you say PS3 games have less banding or no banding at all? I know for a fact, that PC games have banding too, no matter how good your graphics accelerator or monitor is.

No PS3 games don't get any benefit from that. The game engines use the same code, and the console itself doesn't have the memory to to use higher resolution textures like the PC can. The PS3 for the most part either consolidates 2-3 discs worth of the same data an xbox or PC gets onto 1 disc, or uses blu-ray quality cut scenes instead of streaming quality.

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post #42 of 42 Old 05-18-2012, 11:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sotti View Post

No PS3 games don't get any benefit from that. The game engines use the same code, and the console itself doesn't have the memory to to use higher resolution textures like the PC can. The PS3 for the most part either consolidates 2-3 discs worth of the same data an xbox or PC gets onto 1 disc, or uses blu-ray quality cut scenes instead of streaming quality.

I see. So banding is the least visible in PC games due to better bandwidth and texture resolution, but it is there?...So, less compression = less banding. Consoles don't have the same resolution or bandwidth, which leads to more compression to keep performance high, which inevitably means more banding. Makes sense.

Did I miss anything at all?
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