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post #1 of 50 Old 05-15-2012, 07:46 AM - Thread Starter
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What is SubConrast?

What is AR_ADC?

What is Movie Gamma - M1,M2,M3,M4???
What is Movie Gamma off?

Help me, please!
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post #2 of 50 Old 05-15-2012, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anta1974 View Post

What is SubConrast?

What is AR_ADC?

What is Movie Gamma - M1,M2,M3,M4???
What is Movie Gamma off?

Help me, please!

there is no need to go into the service menu on modern Samsung sets; everything you could possibly want for calibration is in the regular user menu

stay out of the service menu for your own good unless you know exactly what you're doing; you could easily brick your set permanently by pressing the wrong button


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post #3 of 50 Old 05-15-2012, 08:04 AM - Thread Starter
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I have LED Samsung UE55B7000 and unmanaged 20 IRE!!!

In service menu value (R/G/B -gain, offset )- 1024 but user menu value 50 !!!

One step in user menu= 20 !!! step in service menu.

I have repeatedly changed the value in the service menu and bought the service manual my TV - I'm not scared!


And I'm not asking how to get to the menu so I know very well
and the value of what I do not understand.


In addition I should RS-232 Support Debug and Watchdog Off.
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post #4 of 50 Old 05-15-2012, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anta1974 View Post


I have repeatedly changed the value in the service menu and bought the service manual my TV - I'm not scared!


The service manual is next to useless if you don't know what particular controls/settings in there do. I would stay out of there since based on your posts in seems you don't know exactly what you're doing (though you have a rough idea, which can be dangerous). You won't be able to solve your calibration issue in the SM and the only white balance settings in the SM that can be used are in the W/B movie menu, not the main (ADC/WB) menu. The main (ADC/WB) settings ones will screw up your picture if you trying using them to calibrate movie mode.


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post #5 of 50 Old 05-15-2012, 08:34 AM - Thread Starter
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You are wrong.
I have spectrofotometr and I was able to using the service menu calibrate my TV in standard mode under 6500K gamma=2.22 and 120 cd/m2.
It has become possible only after the intervention in service menu.
Without this only high 6500K and not meet D65 Rec.709!

Auto-dimming can only be disabled in service menu.


I ask for a small -I answer to my question What is Movie Gamma - M1,M2,M3,M4?
What will be gamma if Movie Gamma off?
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post #6 of 50 Old 05-15-2012, 08:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Other issues - only to satisfy my curiosity!
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post #7 of 50 Old 05-15-2012, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anta1974 View Post

You are wrong.
I have spectrofotometr and I was able to using the service menu calibrate my TV in standard mode under 6500K gamma=2.22 and 120 cd/m2.
It has become possible only after the intervention in service menu.
Without this only high 6500K and not meet D65 Rec.709!

Auto-dimming can only be disabled in service menu.


I ask for a small -I answer to my question What is Movie Gamma - M1,M2,M3,M4?
What will be gamma if Movie Gamma off?

Why would you try to calibrate standard mode? Movie is the closest and best preset to work with. The gamma tracking is way off in Standard mode and much better in Movie mode (not referring to just avg gamma but how linear point gamma tracks across the entire brightness range).


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post #8 of 50 Old 05-15-2012, 08:41 AM - Thread Starter
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A strange person you are - do not know what is the correct mode for the calibration for samsung only Game mode - and there is no mode Movie!
Otherwise why would I suffered?
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post #9 of 50 Old 05-15-2012, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anta1974 View Post


I ask for a small -I answer to my question What is Movie Gamma - M1,M2,M3,M4?
What will be gamma if Movie Gamma off?

Measure it with your meter in each position to see the effects. I can't tell you exactly what it will do since I don't have your exact set. That setting won't mess up your TV, but write down the original position/value of the control before making any changes so you can go back to defaults if you need to.


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post #10 of 50 Old 05-15-2012, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anta1974 View Post

A strange person you are - do not know what is the correct mode for the calibration for samsung only Game mode - and there is no mode Movie!
Otherwise why would I suffered?

all Samsungs have a movie mode, at least in the U.S.


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post #11 of 50 Old 05-15-2012, 08:43 AM - Thread Starter
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post #12 of 50 Old 05-15-2012, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anta1974 View Post

What is SubConrast?

What is AR_ADC?

I would definitely leave this two alone.


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post #13 of 50 Old 05-15-2012, 08:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Switch the TV to Game mode - and then try to find Movie mode!
Do not have it there and never had - and this problem.
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post #14 of 50 Old 05-15-2012, 08:48 AM
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Quote:

The review shows movie mode as a available picture mode and I still maintain that is the best mode to calibrate, not Game/Standard mode. Any professional calibrator would agree with this.


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post #15 of 50 Old 05-15-2012, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anta1974 View Post

Switch the TV to Game mode - and then try to find Movie mode!
Do not have it there and never had - and this problem.

you're not supposed to calibrate with game mode on, that's why you can't access movie mode


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post #16 of 50 Old 05-15-2012, 08:51 AM - Thread Starter
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I calibrated using the service menu turning Game Mode Cinema Mode
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post #17 of 50 Old 05-15-2012, 08:53 AM
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I don't know what you're talking about and since you don't care for my advice, I think I'm done here. Perhaps someone else can help you.


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post #18 of 50 Old 05-15-2012, 08:53 AM - Thread Starter
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This value has changed Standard mode (RGB gain offset in service menu for standard mode in Movie mode and Normal colour temperature presets in Warm 2 colour temperature presets).
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post #19 of 50 Old 05-15-2012, 08:57 AM - Thread Starter
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I had to do it because:
A less major issue came next: chroma resolution. Whatever background video processing this display is doing, it's doing it at a lower chroma resolution, and Y/C Delay is being introduced in the process. Y/C Delay is when the Coloured component(s) of the picture don't correctly line up with the Black and white "base layer", producing colour bleed that's usually noticeable on highly stylised content, like some cartoons.

Fortunately, there is some good news. Samsung do have an option to nuke as much extraneous processing as possible: Game Mode. Game Mode is Samsung's electronic "get out of jail" card, killing Noise Reduction and the aforementioned Chroma Degradation in a single stroke. It also changes the behaviour of the LED dimming. The perfect solution? No, of course not: Game Mode turns off Auto Dimming but will still cut the light output of the LEDs entirely if it detects an all-black screen, which is less annoying but still an issue, for example, during long fades to black. And, Game mode also forces you to use the "Standard" picture preset, which in turn, forces you to use either the "Cool" or "Normal" colour temperature presets, rather than the more accurate "Warm2" (silly me! Of course it does!).
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post #20 of 50 Old 05-18-2012, 04:30 PM
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Anta1974,

IMHO, I agree with plasma, you may not need to go into the service menu for proper gamma. Nonetheless, my understanding of M1, M2, etc., is a service menu gamma setting for minus 1, minus 2, etc. I believe if you set the service menu setting at M1, for example, your user menu setting of gamma @ 0 will be actually showing a gamma @-1.

I use only the user menu settings, previously using the service menu to no avail. Also, per this forum, I calibrate to get a gamma between 2.35 and 2.5 for dark room controlled light environment. Also, I set the dark tone to darkest to bring out a deeper brightness level, with the color space at auto.

Good luck.

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post #21 of 50 Old 05-18-2012, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentfam View Post

I calibrate to get a gamma between 2.35 and 2.5 for dark room controlled light environment. Also, I set the dark tone to darkest to bring out a deeper brightness level.

the black/dark tone setting or whatever it's called should be left off and brightness should be set to show 17 and above flashing on the black clipping pattern of the AVSHD709 patterns... what you're doing now will clip near black detail

also, I wouldn't go past a 2.35-2.4 gamma on most direct view displays like LED/LCD and plasma flat-panels... going past 2.4 will make you lose too much shadow detail

what display type/model do you have? what kind of black level does it have? (black level and measured contrast ratio determine whether a darker gamma like 2.4 will look good or not on your actual display... the higher the contrast ratio and deeper the black level the darker you can go gamma wise without losing shadow detail greatly)


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post #22 of 50 Old 05-20-2012, 03:39 AM
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PlasmaPZ80U,

I have been literally "calibrating" for years, using the tricks of the diy trade. My current average gamma is 2.36. The technical wisdom is to initially turn off all enhancements and separately turn each one on if they positively impact picture quality. The darkest black tone is used to get the deepest blacks, with brightness set at 17 on the AVSHD709 pattern. This allows for the highest static contrast ratio.

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post #23 of 50 Old 05-20-2012, 04:33 AM
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Regarding the black tone setting you have to be careful you are not crushing blacks at mid-APL scenes. It may work out depending on how you have your 10 pt. set. I measured the effects of both low black tone and low dynamic contrast setting as a function of APL and you can see that plot here. It amplifies the inherent gamma response of some samsnug displays which is to raise gamma for APL exceeding about 20% stimulus.

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post #24 of 50 Old 05-20-2012, 07:11 AM
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zoyd,

I agree. It has been difficult to calibrate with darkest setting. I had to display 0 % ire window for about a minute so that the plasma tv can readjust itself before calibration.

Attached are my gamma and rgb graphs. I watch standard mode with normal tone, instead of movie mode. peak white is around 46 ftL, and 0% gray is at 0.039 ftL. I also use the ganging method to flatten out gamma.

Vincentfam

Attachment 247093

Attachment 247094
LL
LL
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post #25 of 50 Old 05-20-2012, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentfam View Post

PlasmaPZ80U,

I have been literally "calibrating" for years, using the tricks of the diy trade. My current average gamma is 2.36. The technical wisdom is to initially turn off all enhancements and separately turn each one on if they positively impact picture quality. The darkest black tone is used to get the deepest blacks, with brightness set at 17 on the AVSHD709 pattern. This allows for the highest static contrast ratio.

Vincentfam

still wrong; calibrating is done with all picture enhancements off

if you set black tone to the darkest value, you'll end up overcompensating by raising brightness much higher than where it would be if black tone was left off; you can also screw up very low-end gamma this way

also, black tone doesn't lower black levels, it only makes near blacks darker by crushing shadow details and raising gamma just above black as a side effect


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post #26 of 50 Old 05-20-2012, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentfam View Post

zoyd,

I agree. It has been difficult to calibrate with darkest setting. I had to display 0 % ire window for about a minute so that the plasma tv can readjust itself before calibration.

Attached are my gamma and rgb graphs. I watch standard mode with normal tone, instead of movie mode. peak white is around 46 ftL, and 0% gray is at 0.039 ftL. I also use the ganging method to flatten out gamma.

You say you've been calibrating for a long time but it seems to me like what you're doing is not truly calibration since using Standard pic mode and Normal color temp to calibrate instead of Movie pic mode and Warm (or Warm2) color temp is just plain wrong as is using black tone (which explains why it's difficult to calibrate with the darkest setting).


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post #27 of 50 Old 05-20-2012, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentfam View Post

zoyd,

I agree. It has been difficult to calibrate with darkest setting. I had to display 0 % ire window for about a minute so that the plasma tv can readjust itself before calibration.

Attached are my gamma and rgb graphs. I watch standard mode with normal tone, instead of movie mode. peak white is around 46 ftL, and 0% gray is at 0.039 ftL. I also use the ganging method to flatten out gamma.

Vincentfam

That gamma curve looks fine given your black reading although I'm not sure why you use the black tone, you can get the same curve with 10pt alone. As the other poster mentioned, your white balance is not calibrated properly but I'm sure you realize that.

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post #28 of 50 Old 05-20-2012, 09:52 AM
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zoyd,

Believe it or not, the black tone setting makes the brightness level look great. I have posted some settings in this web site and others really appreciated them. This was done as an alternative to opening up the rear of the tv and adjusting the pots. The rgb levels are adjusted for standard mode.

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post #29 of 50 Old 05-20-2012, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentfam View Post

zoyd,

Believe it or not, the black tone setting makes the brightness level look great. I have posted some settings in this web site and others really appreciated them. This was done as an alternative to opening up the rear of the tv and adjusting the pots. The rgb levels are adjusted for standard mode.

vincentfam

What is your current brightness setting with black tone set to the darkest value and what setting for brightness do you end up with if you leave black tone off?

I'm willing to bet the latter value is quite a bit lower than the former since black tone simply crushes blacks; as a result, the brightness control must be raised to compensate and restore some level of shadow detail to make the picture watchable.

Also, the gamma response is flatter and better overall in Movie mode, one of the reasons why that mode is optimal for calibration and Standard is not. If you were to re-calibrate in movie mode, the overall PQ post-cal would be more accurate and balanced, especially with regards to gamma.

And if you prefer a somewhat bluer grayscale to D65, it could be that your meter is making "D65" look too red, a common issue with the i1D2/LT colorimeter that many DIY'ers use.


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post #30 of 50 Old 05-20-2012, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

That gamma curve looks fine given your black reading although I'm not sure why you use the black tone, you can get the same curve with 10pt alone. As the other poster mentioned, your white balance is not calibrated properly but I'm sure you realize that.

He has a PN50B450, which lacks the 10-pt grayscale controls.


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