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Display Calibration

wmwilker's Avatar wmwilker
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post #1 of 184
05-23-2012 | Posts: 918
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I would love some help with this calibration. I have a new VT50 and I'm using ChromaPure and ControlCal. The luminance controls on the VT50 do not work so I have some pretty large dE in the colors. I'm not concerned about the 10 & 20% grayscale because I'm using an i1 Pro. Also this is the ISF Day so the output is pretty high, 41 ftL.
Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

 

Cal Day Panasonic VT50.pdf 287.466796875k . file
Attached: Cal Day Panasonic VT50.pdf (287.5 KB) 
venkatesh_m's Avatar venkatesh_m
08:05 PM Liked: 18
post #2 of 184
05-23-2012 | Posts: 353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wmwilker View Post

I would love some help with this calibration. I have a new VT50 and I'm using ChromaPure and ControlCal. The luminance controls on the VT50 do not work so I have some pretty large dE in the colors. I'm not concerned about the 10 & 20% grayscale because I'm using an i1 Pro. Also this is the ISF Day so the output is pretty high, 41 ftL.
Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

U could try bringing the luminance of all colours down using the main colour control.
wmwilker's Avatar wmwilker
08:09 PM Liked: 33
post #3 of 184
05-23-2012 | Posts: 918
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Quote:
Originally Posted by venkatesh_m View Post

U could try bringing the luminance of all colours down using the main colour control.

Thanks, I'll try that
zoyd
08:17 PM Liked: 464
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I think D-nice mentioned that at the shootout, he put color down to 46 as a workaround
Tempest261's Avatar Tempest261
09:54 PM Liked: 26
post #5 of 184
05-23-2012 | Posts: 766
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Someone also mentioned that he had a workaround for the poor performance of the 10pt controls: the 10 discrete points are fine, but the in-between values don't appear to be affected. Other than relying on the 2pt controls on doing most of the work, anyone have any other ideas?

As a side note, it would be greatly appreciated if one of the pro calibrators in these forums could possibly give a procedure on how to calibrate the VT50, given its multiple quirks (but high potential).
zoyd
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post #6 of 184
05-24-2012 | Posts: 5,100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

I think D-nice mentioned that at the shootout, he put color down to 46 as a workaround

Confirmed in Kevin Miller's tweaktv blog, they used color=46.
wmwilker's Avatar wmwilker
08:07 PM Liked: 33
post #7 of 184
05-24-2012 | Posts: 918
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
Confirmed in Kevin Miller's tweaktv blog, they used color=46.
I tried it and got better results. Still not how I'd like it better but the picture is better than I'd expected.
Here's the file.

 

ISF Cal Day.pdf 282.1025390625k . file
Attached: ISF Cal Day.pdf (282.1 KB) 
buzzard767's Avatar buzzard767
08:29 PM Liked: 1027
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05-24-2012 | Posts: 4,195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wmwilker View Post

I tried it and got better results. Still not how I'd like it but the picture is better than I'd expected.
Here's the file.

G & Y luminance still a bit high but otherwise very nice. Try dropping Color another point or two and see if it results in lower average dEs. I just ordered a 65VT50 and I'll be calibrating with ControlCal & CP as well so we can compare notes.
buzzard767's Avatar buzzard767
08:33 PM Liked: 1027
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Your GS is excellent. Keeping in mind the comments about intermediate white luminance points not tracking well, how does a grayscale ramp pattern look to you?
MrBeer's Avatar MrBeer
08:43 PM Liked: 13
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05-24-2012 | Posts: 46
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is there any one in edmonton (canada) that does Calibration just a 65vt50 running the slides now.
buzzard767's Avatar buzzard767
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBeer View Post

is there any one in edmonton (canada) that does Calibration just a 65vt50 running the slides now.

Michael Chen - http://www.tlvexp.ca/
wmwilker's Avatar wmwilker
09:08 PM Liked: 33
post #12 of 184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

Your GS is excellent. Keeping in mind the comments about intermediate white luminance points not tracking well, how does a grayscale ramp pattern look to you?

The GetGray ramp on the AVS HD disk shows some green in the 3rd ramp and red in the fourth. It looks like I have some yellow in the mids but I'm not certain about that.

I will be VERY interested to see your results. I have hardly any experience with this so I'm learning as I go. Great fun though.

As far as the gamut. I tried lowering it more but it just threw dEs in other colors. I hope to have some time this weekend to work on it some more.

Thanks for your feedback.
Tempest261's Avatar Tempest261
08:50 PM Liked: 26
post #13 of 184
05-26-2012 | Posts: 766
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wmwilker View Post

I would love some help with this calibration. I have a new VT50 and I'm using ChromaPure and ControlCal. The luminance controls on the VT50 do not work so I have some pretty large dE in the colors. I'm not concerned about the 10 & 20% grayscale because I'm using an i1 Pro. Also this is the ISF Day so the output is pretty high, 41 ftL.
Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

I started to calibrate my VT50 today (X-rite i1 Display Pro, Calman DIY, ControlCAL) and it's been trickier than I thought.

I started with the default ISF Day. When I went to find my current gamma curve, I found that it's wayyyyyy off, and far from flat. There is a huge dive from 30-80, and then it comes back up at 100. I then saw the inverse (as expected) in the 10pt greyscale curve.

I tried to straighten it out by adjusting the 10pt gamma settings, and I was able to get it closer by lowering the gain of almost the entire scale between -10 and -45. However, after looking at your attached graphs, I see that your "pre" gamma curve looks nothing like mine. I'm wondering if I'm misinterpreting these wrong and throwing away a ton of gain in the picture as a result.

I'm honestly a little lost. Calibrating the VT50 has been far from what I experienced with the Samsung UNxxD8000 (LCD). The VT50 is a completely different animal. Any suggestions?
turbe's Avatar turbe
09:14 PM Liked: 90
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05-26-2012 | Posts: 4,437
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what are your sources?... what are you using for your patterns?

What is your pattern source(s)?

I know you are coming from LCD, Plasma is a different beast.
wmwilker's Avatar wmwilker
09:22 PM Liked: 33
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05-26-2012 | Posts: 918
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest261 View Post

I started to calibrate my VT50 today (X-rite i1 Display Pro, Calman DIY, ControlCAL) and it's been trickier than I thought.

I started with the default ISF Day. When I went to find my current gamma curve, I found that it's wayyyyyy off, and far from flat. There is a huge dive from 30-80, and then it comes back up at 100. I then saw the inverse (as expected) in the 10pt greyscale curve.

I tried to straighten it out by adjusting the 10pt gamma settings, and I was able to get it closer by lowering the gain of almost the entire scale between -10 and -45. However, after looking at your attached graphs, I see that your "pre" gamma curve looks nothing like mine. I'm wondering if I'm misinterpreting these wrong and throwing away a ton of gain in the picture as a result.

I'm honestly a little lost. Calibrating the VT50 has been far from what I experienced with the Samsung UNxxD8000 (LCD). The VT50 is a completely different animal. Any suggestions?

Tempest, I'm not sure if it matters but I calibrated my Custom mode before I bought ControlCal. One thing that helped me was the 2 point grayscale. It made the 10 point much easier. My gamma was not bad at all. I'm not sure why yours is off. Did you put your reports on the Calibration Forum?

The Samsung RGB mode was much easier for me too.

@Turbe & Tempest, I used the AVS HD disk. I burned it to a BR disk and ran it through an Oppo 93.
turbe's Avatar turbe
09:28 PM Liked: 90
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Quote:


@Turbe & Tempest, I used the AVS HD disk. I burned it to a BR disk and ran it through an Oppo 93.

I suspect you used windowed and not full field..
wmwilker's Avatar wmwilker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

I suspect you used windowed and not full field..

Correct. Aren't full fields for projectors?
Tempest261's Avatar Tempest261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

I suspect you used windowed and not full field..

Nah, I knew about the windows. I think it may have been as simple as me using the 75% window when I needed it to be on the 100%.

<-newbie .
Tempest261's Avatar Tempest261
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post #19 of 184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

what are your sources?... what are you using for your patterns?

What is your pattern source(s)?

I know you are coming from LCD, Plasma is a different beast.

I'm using the AVS HD 709 disc, with the windowed patterns.
visca blaugrana's Avatar visca blaugrana
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05-27-2012 | Posts: 355
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With the chance of people saying I'm blowing my own trumpet. have a look under calculation of rgb levels at different saturation and luminance, I have created a disk with 1% patterns with 25% apl background I think that might be of use to you
turbe's Avatar turbe
06:06 AM Liked: 90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wmwilker View Post

Correct. Aren't full fields for projectors?

and lcd

Quote:
Originally Posted by visca blaugrana View Post

With the chance of people saying I'm blowing my own trumpet. have a look under calculation of rgb levels at different saturation and luminance, I have created a disk with 1% patterns with 25% apl background I think that might be of use to you

Nice job on the disc btw
anta1974's Avatar anta1974
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Turbe! 1% patterns with 25% apl background can use LED or only plasma?
Help me, please.
Tempest261's Avatar Tempest261
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Fellow calibrators,
What did you measure your max light output at for the THX Day mode? I measured around 38 ftL, and with my recent ISF Night Calibration (PB=medium), I hit about the same.

Doing my ISF Night calibration wasn't that bad with PB=medium... the gamma curve was relatively flat, and I didn't have to hit the 10p greyscale balance that hard.



ISF Day, with PB=high, was a different story. Setting the PB=high really screws up the gamma curve for me, with a reduced gain in the lower end, and a boosted gain in the higher end.


However, if I look at the RELATIVE curve, it looks okay... but I'm not sure if this would be acceptable to a calibrator.


ChadB's calibration report states that he hit a max light output of ~45 ftL. If I have my PB=high, I can hit a similar level, but I can't get the kind of accurate calibration that he does because of that screwy gamma curve.

Anyone have any ideas? If Chad could chime in himself that would be awesome
turbe's Avatar turbe
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you don't want to use high, it will give unacceptable results.. Calibrators are achieving the light output with medium.
Tempest261's Avatar Tempest261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

Calibrators are achieving the light output with medium.

How? . Do they manipulate the 2-point scaled to give a gain boost in the high end or something? I've tried a lower gamma too- that doesn't seem to help much. Kinda confused as to how they're able to achieve this without PB=high...
turbe's Avatar turbe
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post #26 of 184
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Tempest, take a look at wmwilker's reports and settings Here (Post #2) for isf Day

42fL using Medium.

He also has the ControlCAL file.
wmwilker's Avatar wmwilker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest261 View Post

How? . Do they manipulate the 2-point scaled to give a gain boost in the high end or something? I've tried a lower gamma too- that doesn't seem to help much. Kinda confused as to how they're able to achieve this without PB=high...

Ok I'm confused. Looking at the 100% Y measurements I'm seeing 41.5289 for the night and 50.1612. Is that not the max output? Forgive my ignorance.
Tempest261's Avatar Tempest261
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post #28 of 184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wmwilker View Post

Ok I'm confused. Looking at the 100% Y measurements I'm seeing 41.5289 for the night and 50.1612. Is that not the max output? Forgive my ignorance.

Oh... maybe I'm measuring this wrong. To measure the "max output", I'm going to the "Preset Luminance" portion of the flow and measuring there.

If the 100% white Y value is the max output, why would it give different readings? What do you get when you measure with the "Preset Luminance" measurement?
wmwilker's Avatar wmwilker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest261 View Post

Oh... maybe I'm measuring this wrong. To measure the "max output", I'm going to the "Preset Luminance" portion of the flow and measuring there.

If the 100% white Y value is the max output, why would it give different readings? What do you get when you measure with the "Preset Luminance" measurement?

if that is in Calman there is no corresponding measurement in Chromapure. At least to my knowledge. There is a lumens calculator but I think it's mostly for front projectors. Again I'm very new to this so I'm still learning
Tempest261's Avatar Tempest261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wmwilker View Post

if that is in Calman there is no corresponding measurement in Chromapure. At least to my knowledge. There is a lumens calculator but I think it's mostly for front projectors. Again I'm very new to this so I'm still learning

Yeah, this measurement is in Calman.

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