CalMan 5 Release Notes and Discussion - Page 115 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 12-10-2016, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
When calibrating my LGE6 OLED in bright mode, i'm finding that when I start calibrating from 100% down to 5% and then go back to 100% to start another scan, that my readings at 100% are way off but then starts to return close to what I set it to after the 100% pattern is up for a little bit.

From experimentation, it looks like the panel is heating up when you calibrate the higher IREs and then cools down when calibrating the lower IREs so when you go from 5% back to 100% the panel is cooler and the readings are off at 100%.

I know that it's not the ABL because there is no change when I throw up the menu and I have that pattern insertion feature in Calman set to display a 20% window every 20 seconds. Also when I get everything close, if I quickly scan from 100% to 5% and then back to 100%, the readings are fine because the lower IRE's are not on long enough the panel to cool down.

I'm using an 18% window and trying not to leave the 100% pattern up too long. I have a bright room and have the OLED set to 100 and the Contrast set to 80.

How do you manage this effect when calibrating? Any ideas?

Hello.

I have same issues as you,using latest calman enthusiast,C6 meter,murideo six-g generator,tried several different patterns (windows and apl) and also have the pattern insertion on (10s,1s,75%) find it very hard to get a consistent reading,especially ire 100 a small change and you target gamma curve is history

Did you find any trick to make the display to behave
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Old 12-10-2016, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by p5browne View Post
Does being on a tripod, away from the panel, versus being on screen, make a difference when profiling?
I see multiple pass being accurate on a tripod profiling.
According to the EBU TECH.3325 Publication (Methods for the Measurement of the performance of Studio Monitors), it recommends the distance measuring geometry rather than the contact method.

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Old 12-10-2016, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by T( )( )L View Post
Hello.

I have same issues as you,using latest calman enthusiast,C6 meter,murideo six-g generator,tried several different patterns (windows and apl) and also have the pattern insertion on (10s,1s,75%) find it very hard to get a consistent reading,especially ire 100 a small change and you target gamma curve is history

Did you find any trick to make the display to behave
Hi, try this using any layout page it has RGB balance and showing the xyY numbers in continuous mode.

Sometimes it will help to use different number of samples up to a specific luminance range and different number of samples (or larger exposure time) to other read. These options are available to CalMAN's meter settings.

It will help if you disable the ASBL (Page 13, TCP Off) from LG's (IN-START) Service Menu, don't changed something else there.

Try 10% Windows also.
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Old 12-10-2016, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
According to the EBU TECH.3325 Publication (Methods for the Measurement of the performance of Studio Monitors), it recommends the distance measuring geometry rather than the contact method.
This is interesting But, without a laser pointer on the meters, how can you be 100% certain that they are looking at the same exact part of the screen? I guess if you are close up you can minimize the error.

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Old 12-10-2016, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
This is interesting But, without a laser pointer on the meters, how can you be 100% certain that they are looking at the same exact part of the screen? I guess if you are close up you can minimize the error.
Another detail when you create a meter correction table is the meter's FOV (Field Of View).

If you want to match your meters measuring pixel area (FOV) of your meters (i1Display PRO/C6 with i1PRO1/2), for an area of pixels with 25mm diameter, for i1PRO1/2 you have to place the meter with 17,8cm from your screen and your C6/id3 with 13,6cm distance from the screen. These distances are small and easily you can aim without a laser aiming which reference meters feature (JETI/Klein).
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Old 12-10-2016, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T( )( )L View Post
Hello.

I have same issues as you,using latest calman enthusiast,C6 meter,murideo six-g generator,tried several different patterns (windows and apl) and also have the pattern insertion on (10s,1s,75%) find it very hard to get a consistent reading,especially ire 100 a small change and you target gamma curve is history

Did you find any trick to make the display to behave
So here's my trick:

In Calman, to the left of the action buttons on the bottom of the screen is the Pattern button. Click the top of the Pattern button and select the Brightness pattern from the menu so that every time you click on the center of the Pattern button, you will put up the dark Pluge pattern on the screen.

When you calibrate, start at 100% or where ever you want and take a manual reading then click the center of the Pattern button.

The result is you will have the gray scale pattern that you are working with on the screen only for the time it takes to do a reading. Then the dark Pluge pattern will be up while you are seeing the result and figuring out what to adjust.

You then keep repeating the process. What this does is leaves the gray scale pattern up for only the short period of time that's needed for the reading then returns the screen to a dark, "idle" state.

You will see that you only need a couple of scans and the 21 point will line right up and you can do an automatic scan at the end to verify your results.

This works really well when you are calibrating ISF Bright or HDR and have everything set to display the brightest picture. This is not needed as much when calibrating ISF Dark or any dark room modes because the screen is at a much lower luminance level.

In talking to some folks, it's not clear what's causing the readings to change when you have a very bright pattern up for a period of time on the OLED. Some believe it's the brightness limiters, some the power supply, some the individual pixels heating up thus changing their output. My guess it's probably all three that are involved to some extent.

Please note that I found that the Pluge pattern works best but you can use any low intensity pattern as long as the screen stays on.
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Old 12-10-2016, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Another detail when you create a meter correction table is the meter's FOV (Field Of View).

If you want to match your meters measuring pixel area (FOV) of your meters (i1Display PRO/C6 with i1PRO1/2), for an area of pixels with 25mm diameter, for i1PRO1/2 you have to place the meter with 17,8cm from your screen and your C6/id3 with 13,6cm distance from the screen. These distances are small and easily you can aim without a laser aiming which reference meters feature (JETI/Klein).
Thanks, i'll have to try that next time. I wonder how many calibrators take this into account and then validate the results?

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Old 12-10-2016, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
Thanks, i'll have to try that next time. I wonder how many calibrators take this into account and then validate the results?
These are some extra details, a lot of calibrators are skipping these steps, but other are skipping more important steps like:

1) Verify the generated meter correction table to see if it's valid,

2) If they are using an external pattern generator (Reference/FireStick/Notebook HDMI output etc.) they have to compare the player output using a calibration disk to see if it's matching the pattern generator output. If it's not matching then makes no sense to use it at all.

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Old 12-11-2016, 01:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi, try this using any layout page it has RGB balance and showing the xyY numbers in continuous mode.

Sometimes it will help to use different number of samples up to a specific luminance range and different number of samples (or larger exposure time) to other read. These options are available to CalMAN's meter settings.

It will help if you disable the ASBL (Page 13, TCP Off) from LG's (IN-START) Service Menu, don't changed something else there.

Try 10% Windows also.
Hi ted.

Thanks for advice,my c6 is nist certified (5 more months) and handled with care but maybe it has drifted away? I already have your disc but as of right now i have only a ps4 as source player (oppo 203 on pre-order though) will give it a try when oppo arrives
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Old 12-11-2016, 01:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
So here's my trick:

In Calman, to the left of the action buttons on the bottom of the screen is the Pattern button. Click the top of the Pattern button and select the Brightness pattern from the menu so that every time you click on the center of the Pattern button, you will put up the dark Pluge pattern on the screen.

When you calibrate, start at 100% or where ever you want and take a manual reading then click the center of the Pattern button.

The result is you will have the gray scale pattern that you are working with on the screen only for the time it takes to do a reading. Then the dark Pluge pattern will be up while you are seeing the result and figuring out what to adjust.

You then keep repeating the process. What this does is leaves the gray scale pattern up for only the short period of time that's needed for the reading then returns the screen to a dark, "idle" state.

You will see that you only need a couple of scans and the 21 point will line right up and you can do an automatic scan at the end to verify your results.

This works really well when you are calibrating ISF Bright or HDR and have everything set to display the brightest picture. This is not needed as much when calibrating ISF Dark or any dark room modes because the screen is at a much lower luminance level.

In talking to some folks, it's not clear what's causing the readings to change when you have a very bright pattern up for a period of time on the OLED. Some believe it's the brightness limiters, some the power supply, some the individual pixels heating up thus changing their output. My guess it's probably all three that are involved to some extent.

Please note that I found that the Pluge pattern works best but you can use any low intensity pattern as long as the screen stays on.


Hi.

Thanks for info,will give it a try
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Old 12-11-2016, 01:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T( )( )L View Post
Hi ted.

Thanks for advice,my c6 is nist certified (5 more months) and handled with care but maybe it has drifted away? I already have your disc but as of right now i have only a ps4 as source player (oppo 203 on pre-order though) will give it a try when oppo arrives
Hi, I don't believe it's a meter (hardware side) related issue, just needs some testing to locate the best meter settings.

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Old 12-11-2016, 02:50 AM
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Got it : ) will try some other meter settings.
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Old 12-24-2016, 05:10 AM
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I found these HDR patterns on Spectracal's website and was wondering if any of these would be suitable to put on a memory stick and put on an LG 65B6P? Will it trigger HDR?

http://calman.spectracal.com/downloa...ern-discs.html
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Old 12-24-2016, 05:22 AM
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Originally Posted by JimP View Post
I found these HDR patterns on Spectracal's website and was wondering if any of these would be suitable to put on a memory stick and put on an LG 65B6P? Will it trigger HDR?

http://calman.spectracal.com/downloa...ern-discs.html
These aren't HDR patterns, these are the old AVSHD709 files, also available here
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Old 12-24-2016, 05:24 AM
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Originally Posted by JimP View Post
I found these HDR patterns on Spectracal's website and was wondering if any of these would be suitable to put on a memory stick and put on an LG 65B6P? Will it trigger HDR?

http://calman.spectracal.com/downloa...ern-discs.html
Hi Jim, probably you mean this: http://calman.spectracal.com/blog/sn...r-test-pattern

It's only one pattern, 100% White.

Why don't you HD Linker to add to your external pattern generator HDR capability?

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Old 12-24-2016, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi Jim, probably you mean this: http://calman.spectracal.com/blog/sn...r-test-pattern

It's only one pattern, 100% White.

Why don't you HD Linker to add to your external pattern generator HDR capability?
I'm a little confused as to the difference between the HD Linker and the HD Fury Integral.

....and you're right. I did a google search and didn't notice that the link was for Rec709.

Although I'll probably go the hardware route later, provided LG fixes the CMS on the B6, I just wanted to play with some patterns on a memory stick. I don't have a 4K player yet and will probably wait for a second generation Oppo so that's going to be a while. There's not that much content out yet so no point buying one and then another one later which is what happened with Bluray and come to think about it, a toshiba HD DVD player that's also collecting dust.
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Old 12-24-2016, 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by JimP View Post
I'm a little confused as to the difference between the HD Linker and the HD Fury Integral.

....and you're right. I did a google search and didn't notice that the link was for Rec709.

Although I'll probably go the hardware route later, provided LG fixes the CMS on the B6, I just wanted to play with some patterns on a memory stick. I don't have a 4K player yet and will probably wait for a second generation Oppo so that's going to be a while. There's not that much content out yet so no point buying one and then another one later which is what happened with Bluray and come to think about it, a toshiba HD DVD player that's also collecting dust.
Here is the comparison table: https://www.hdfury.com/comparison/

HD Linker it has scaling capabilities, it's newer product, more simple to setup.

I don't expect anything from LG about their crappy CMS, it never worked as expected a lot of years.
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Old 12-24-2016, 06:03 AM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Here is the comparison table: https://www.hdfury.com/comparison/

HD Linker it has scaling capabilities, it's newer product, more simple to setup.

I don't expect anything from LG about their crappy CMS, it never worked as expected a lot of years.
Thanks for the link.
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Old 12-24-2016, 01:21 PM
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A couple of posts back we were talking about the need to verify meter profiling. As discussed, some of us found that you can create several profiles and some will be better than others. That said, I was going a little crazy trying to compare the profiles I created so I put together the attached spreadsheet to help with the process.

The idea is to create several profiles then take a reading of the x,y,Y for each of the WRGB patterns for the reference meter and the profiled meter for each profile. After the measurement of each profile against the reference meter you can copy and past the x,y,Y for the WRGB values into the attached spreadsheet. The spreadsheet allows for up to 7 profiles for comparison.

The calculations are actually very simple. They show the magnitude of the difference of the x,y,Y values between the reference and profiled meter for each profile that you created. Also having the values in the spreadsheet allows you to see the variances of the x,y,Y for the WRGB values at a glance.

The data in the spreadsheet are some tests I ran profiling a C6 to an i1Pro2.
I know that some of the variances between profiles are very small but it's a good tool to make sure that you got a good profile that you will be using for a while.

Disregard the Black column since that's just a place holder.

Feel fee to use the spreadsheet and provide any feedback or improvements that might make the profile verification process easier to do.
Attached Files
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Old 01-04-2017, 04:48 PM
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Fairly basic question: I have been using the 30%/80% option on the 2-point grayscale measurement screen. I would like to experiment using the Peak White option, but I am not sure that my pattern sources have a 109% Peak White pattern. I have Spears&Munsil ver 2 Blu-ray, and the AVS709 disk. If these disks don't have a 109% pattern, where can I find one?

Thanks for any feedback.
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Old 01-04-2017, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Fairly basic question: I have been using the 30%/80% option on the 2-point grayscale measurement screen. I would like to experiment using the Peak White option, but I am not sure that my pattern sources have a 109% Peak White pattern. I have Spears&Munsil ver 2 Blu-ray, and the AVS709 disk. If these disks don't have a 109% pattern, where can I find one?

Thanks for any feedback.
It's on the AVS709 disc (so long as you have the latest version), just past 100% or 105% (depending on which set you're in)

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Old 01-04-2017, 05:29 PM
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It's on the AVS709 disc (so long as you have the latest version), just past 100% or 105% (depending on which set you're in)
Thanks, I'll download the latest version. Mine is at least 3-4 years old.
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Old 01-04-2017, 05:36 PM
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Having difficulty finding a version of AVSHD709 newer than 2010. Anyone have a download link, please?
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Old 01-04-2017, 06:31 PM
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Having difficulty finding a version of AVSHD709 newer than 2010. Anyone have a download link, please?
that might be the latest version IIRC
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Old 01-05-2017, 01:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Fairly basic question: I have been using the 30%/80% option on the 2-point grayscale measurement screen. I would like to experiment using the Peak White option, but I am not sure that my pattern sources have a 109% Peak White pattern. I have Spears&Munsil ver 2 Blu-ray, and the AVS709 disk. If these disks don't have a 109% pattern, where can I find one?

Thanks for any feedback.


Hi, there is CalMAN Dynamic Range Clipping with Peak White chapter here, for 90,100,105,107,108,109% White measurements.

You get a better idea of how your various contrast settings affecting the gamma at these steps above reference white when you will measure and compare different contrast values of your display slider.

You can use a CalMAN workflow which has Dynamic Range measurement layout page, Ted's disk users can use the CalMAN 5 Pre-Calibration Workflow below:

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V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
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Old 01-05-2017, 07:45 AM
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^ Thank you, very useful.
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Old 01-05-2017, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post


Hi, there is CalMAN Dynamic Range Clipping with Peak White chapter here, for 90,100,105,107,108,109% White measurements.

You get a better idea of how your various contrast settings affecting the gamma at these steps above reference white when you will measure and compare different contrast values of your display slider.

You can use a CalMAN workflow which has Dynamic Range measurement layout page, Ted's disk users can use the CalMAN 5 Pre-Calibration Workflow below:



Hi ConnecTEDDD,
Where can I obtain information on how to order your disk? Is the disk shipped from Greece or from here in the US? Thanks.
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Old 01-05-2017, 08:05 AM
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Ordering Details

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Originally Posted by gr8sound View Post
Hi ConnecTEDDD,
Where can I obtain information on how to order your disk? Is the disk shipped from Greece or from here in the US? Thanks.
Hi, every detail about shipping is available there (see Ordering Details): http://www.displaycalibrations.com/disk_copy_order.html

Thanks.
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S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
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Old 01-05-2017, 11:53 AM
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CalMAN 2016 5.7.1 Open Beta - Build: 2453 Released @ 05 January 2017

Release Notes

Changed the Flanders Scientific BoxIO to use Full Range from SMTPE Full range so that the levels are now correct. Requires firmware v1.45.

Resolved an issue where CalMAN would reject license keys generated in 2017.

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Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
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Old 01-10-2017, 03:15 AM
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Another detail when you create a meter correction table is the meter's FOV (Field Of View).

If you want to match your meters measuring pixel area (FOV) of your meters (i1Display PRO/C6 with i1PRO1/2), for an area of pixels with 25mm diameter, for i1PRO1/2 you have to place the meter with 17,8cm from your screen and your C6/id3 with 13,6cm distance from the screen. These distances are small and easily you can aim without a laser aiming which reference meters feature (JETI/Klein).


This the example of how easy you can match both meters FOV, when you have reference meter combo, very useful when you are calibrating a display/projector/commercial cinema/videowall etc.

The left circle is displayed by JETI 1211 (or any other JETI; 1201/1501/1511), inside to that generated circle is the measuring pixel area.

The dots which create a circle area are coming from Klein K-10A, it's showing the measuring pixel area also.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
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