CalMan 5 Release Notes and Discussion - Page 118 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 03-01-2017, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frumenzio View Post
I have done other test about my problem (described in post 3454) in having a not so good profile using Calman "Four Color Matrix Application";to better understand the problem I have written a perl program to do the necessary mathematical calculations to implement a Four-Color Matrix Method for Correction of Tristimulus Colorimeters and,to my surprise, I have obtained very good results

With Calman application I have obtained the following matrix correction:

1.05247888;-0.00323288;-0.00483258;0.0033381;1.02529992;0.00126122;0.01499 474;-0.00348541;1.01774149;

and the following differences from the measurements taken with the reference instrument Jeti 1211L:

White x diff: +0.0004
Red x diff: -0.0033
Green x diff: -0.0001
Blue x diff: +0.0004
White y diff: +0.0003
Red y diff: -0.0008
Green y diff: -0.0019
Blue y diff: +0.0006
White Y diff: -0.0633 (0.1%)
Red Y diff: +0.0987 (0.6%)
Green Y diff: +0.1308 (0.2%)
Blue Y diff: +0.0929 (1.5%)

With my perl program I have obtained the following matrix correction:

1.05135;-0.00195;-0.00362;-0.00106;1.03075;0.00148;0.00895;-0.00504;1.02814;

and the following differences from the measurements taken with the reference instrument Jeti 1211L:

White x diff: +0.0001
Red x diff: +0.0001
Green x diff: -0.0000
Blue x diff: -0.0001
White y diff: -0.0000
Red y diff: -0.0000
Green y diff: +0.0000
Blue y diff: -0.0001
White Y diff: -0.0651 (0.1%)
Red Y diff: +0.0280 (0.2%)
Green Y diff: +0.2227 (0.4%)
Blue Y diff: +0.0653 (1.1%)

as you can see the profile done with "Four Color Matrix Application" has worst results with red x,green y and blu Y too high

I have obtained the same not so good results doing the profile creation in multi pass mode with "Meter Profiler" option in Calman

a special thanks to ConnecTEDDD that helped me to resolve my problem
So the question is why can't Calman give the same accuracy?

John
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Old 03-02-2017, 02:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frumenzio View Post
I have the same problem to get a correct profile with xrite i1d3 and Calman (more detail in post 3454)
I take the patch measurement with JetiLival for Reference Jeti1211L and with Calman for i1d3;if I insert these values (xyY) in Ligthspace program I obtain a correct profile but if I use the Four ColorMatrix app I have more error on red x and green y
I have done these profile test a lot of time and I always had the same problem
I'm seeing the same using a i1 display 3 and and i1 pro 2. In the screenshot I compare x,y (and others) between the profiled i1 display 3 and the spectro. Notice the green and red...
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Old 03-02-2017, 03:41 AM
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on 24 January I sent an email to Spectracal support reporting the problem with profile and explaining to them that with Lightspace program I had better results;on 30 January they answered me that perhaps Lightspace program is ignoring Y in meter profile creation and they told me to check if the meters was measuring the same spot of the display;on 1 Febrary I answered that Lightspace is correcting also the Y but after this email I received no response
I should renew my Calman license but if they don't solve this problem I will not renew it
Jeroen1000 can you report your issue to Spectracal Support?

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Last edited by frumenzio; 03-02-2017 at 03:47 AM.
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Old 03-02-2017, 04:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frumenzio View Post
on 24 January I sent an email to Spectracal support reporting the problem with profile and explaining to them that with Lightspace program I had better results;on 30 January they answered me that perhaps Lightspace program is ignoring Y in meter profile creation and they told me to check if the meters was measuring the same spot of the display;on 1 Febrary I answered that Lightspace is correcting also the Y but after this email I received no response
I should renew my Calman license but if they don't solve this problem I will not renew it
Jeroen1000 can you report your issue to Spectracal Support?
I have done so today. Seeing my error is also with red and green, I smell an issue:-)

My gear: Panasonic TH-42PF11EK pro plasma display + TX-P55VT60E -- Iscan Duo video processor -- i1 display 3 colorimeter -- i1 pro 2 spectrometer
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Old 03-02-2017, 05:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen1000 View Post
I have done so today. Seeing my error is also with red and green, I smell an issue:-)
I hope they will answer you with a solution;thank you for reporting it

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Old 03-02-2017, 11:23 AM
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frumenzio

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
So the question is why can't Calman give the same accuracy?
Hi John,

Because seems that noone at SpectraCAL is interesting to check the maths required for the calculation of the Four-Color-Matrix-Method, just I provided to frumenzio the proper NIST PDF's for that method, and based to these maths (without errors) he wrote in some minutes the code to make his own utility for this job.

If SpectraCAL can provide what math they are using, we can help them, telling them where they have error in calculation. Just with current meter profiling status, even if you have spend some thousand dollars to get reference spectro, using CalMAN's meter profiling 'buggy' calculation, it will add you some additional errors during meter profiling generation.
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Old 03-02-2017, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frumenzio View Post
on 24 January I sent an email to Spectracal support reporting the problem with profile and explaining to them that with Lightspace program I had better results;on 30 January they answered me that perhaps Lightspace program is ignoring Y in meter profile creation and they told me to check if the meters was measuring the same spot of the display;on 1 Febrary I answered that Lightspace is correcting also the Y but after this email I received no response
I should renew my Calman license but if they don't solve this problem I will not renew it
Jeroen1000 can you report your issue to Spectracal Support?
That's very un-professional, you report a problem and SpectraCAL claims that LightSpace has problem, not CalMAN! looooooooooooool

It need some experience to able to understand that is something wrong, the method you followed it's using the same data as reference...it needs only from someone which is interest to help a user problem, to spend some minutes checking the code or create a correction table and verify...but the quicker solution was to say that LightSpace has he issue...which gives perfect verification to you every single time.
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Old 03-04-2017, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
That's very un-professional, you report a problem and SpectraCAL claims that LightSpace has problem, not CalMAN! looooooooooooool

It need some experience to able to understand that is something wrong, the method you followed it's using the same data as reference...it needs only from someone which is interest to help a user problem, to spend some minutes checking the code or create a correction table and verify...but the quicker solution was to say that LightSpace has he issue...which gives perfect verification to you every single time.
I am running the new version of Calman. When using Madvr as a pattern generator and reading an 11 pt grayscale series for example, when 0% black is supposed to be displayed a 100% white window displays instead. Even if i manually click on the 0% pattern Calman does not change from a 100% white window. All the other grayscale steps change correctly when manually clicking except for 0%.
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Old 03-04-2017, 05:07 PM - Thread Starter
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We are looking into the meter profiling issue.
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Old 03-07-2017, 01:48 PM
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Would it be possible to post the aforementioned NIST documents and/or code for the calculator?
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Old 03-08-2017, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sawfish View Post
Would it be possible to post the aforementioned NIST documents and/or code for the calculator?
Hi, the reason you buy a software is for doing all that basic stuff (like the very important calculation for the 3x3 XYZ matrix for the correction table) automatically and accurate, It's something the software have to fix, this is why you buy it. free software doing this correctly for a lot of years like HCFR or LightSpace DPS.

Here are the documents:

http://www.displaycalibrations.com/f...s_-_Part_1.pdf

http://www.displaycalibrations.com/f...s_-_Part_2.pdf

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Old 03-08-2017, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi, the reason you buy a software is for doing all that basic stuff (like the very important calculation for the 3x3 XYZ matrix for the correction table) automatically and accurate, It's something the software have to fix, this is why you buy it. free software doing this correctly for a lot of years like HCFR or LightSpace DPS.

Here are the documents:

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc...=rep1&type=pdf

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc...=rep1&type=pdf
Links don't work. Does either HCFR or DPS have a 4 Color Matrix program like Calman?
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Old 03-08-2017, 03:16 PM
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Links don't work. Does either HCFR or DPS have a 4 Color Matrix program like Calman?
Hi, I have corrected the links of my previous post.

About your question, they don't have external utility, since it's something it's working without errors internally to the software.

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Old 03-08-2017, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi, I have corrected the links of my previous post.
Nope, still not working.

Quote:
About your question, they don't have external utility, since it's something it's working without errors internally to the software.
Right, that's why I was asking about the other poster's code or the documents he used. I used the Calman 4 color app in 2014 after encountering bugs with its automated profiling, which made red go all out of whack, IIRC. I made an Excel spreadsheet to compare the results from my manual profile and the automatic one, and I'd like to see if there's any difference between the "correct" calculation and what the old 4 color app gave me.
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Old 03-09-2017, 01:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sawfish View Post
Nope, still not working.

Right, that's why I was asking about the other poster's code or the documents he used. I used the Calman 4 color app in 2014 after encountering bugs with its automated profiling, which made red go all out of whack, IIRC. I made an Excel spreadsheet to compare the results from my manual profile and the automatic one, and I'd like to see if there's any difference between the "correct" calculation and what the old 4 color app gave me.
Links are OK now:

http://www.displaycalibrations.com/f...s_-_Part_1.pdf

http://www.displaycalibrations.com/f...s_-_Part_2.pdf

I remember at 2015, we had again issue with meter profiling, CalMAN was not fixing Y errors during meter profile table creation: http://www.spectracal.com/forum/view...t=5638&p=37693

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Old 03-09-2017, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Links are OK now:
Thanks!
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Old 03-09-2017, 01:13 PM
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Has anyone tested Chromasurf to see if its doing the same thing....meaning not profiling Y?
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Old 03-09-2017, 01:53 PM
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about profiling issues.

I made a profile for my i1 pro display 3 the 27th of February. Done a full calibration. Today March 9th, much to my surprise, it is way off compared to the i1 pro 2 spectro. I've then reprofiled the colorimeter and verified my previous full calibration. It was ok. So for some reason Calman appears to be forgetting to use an early made profile when you select it. This has happened 2 times to me already...

Anyone noticing similar behavior?

My gear: Panasonic TH-42PF11EK pro plasma display + TX-P55VT60E -- Iscan Duo video processor -- i1 display 3 colorimeter -- i1 pro 2 spectrometer
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Old 03-09-2017, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen1000 View Post
about profiling issues.

I made a profile for my i1 pro display 3 the 27th of February. Done a full calibration. Today March 9th, much to my surprise, it is way off compared to the i1 pro 2 spectro. I've then reprofiled the colorimeter and verified my previous full calibration. It was ok. So for some reason Calman appears to be forgetting to use an early made profile when you select it. This has happened 2 times to me already...

Anyone noticing similar behavior?

Yes, but default it seems to forget most things including the target gamma, points, and other settings even when I save the session.


- Rich

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Old 03-09-2017, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post
Has anyone tested Chromasurf to see if its doing the same thing....meaning not profiling Y?
Hi Jim, always the Y has to be corrected, Chromasurf is doing the job right, even profiling 'supposed unstable display like OLED's' I never had a single issue, see there some recent results: CalMan 5 Release Notes and Discussion

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Old 03-09-2017, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen1000 View Post
about profiling issues.

I made a profile for my i1 pro display 3 the 27th of February. Done a full calibration. Today March 9th, much to my surprise, it is way off compared to the i1 pro 2 spectro. I've then reprofiled the colorimeter and verified my previous full calibration. It was ok. So for some reason Calman appears to be forgetting to use an early made profile when you select it. This has happened 2 times to me already...

Anyone noticing similar behavior?
Yes, if you open-close CalMAN, even the same day, or re-open the same workflow you are working with, the profile randomly can be off.

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Old 03-09-2017, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Yes, if you open-close CalMAN, even the same day, or re-open the same workflow you are working with, the profile randomly can be off.
That's still a problem? There was a thread on that in the Spectracal forums three years ago.
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Old 03-09-2017, 09:24 PM
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CalMAN 2016 R2 Home Theater version 5.7.2 RC3 is available for download.

http://calman.spectracal.com/downloads.html

Changes since previous RC.

Resolved an issue which would cause CalMAN to crash when displaying Dolby patterns.
Resolved an issue which would cause an error message to popup with pattern changes on the Quantum Data 780 and 804 series pattern generators running the latest firmware.
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Old 03-10-2017, 12:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sawfish View Post
That's still a problem? There was a thread on that in the Spectracal forums three years ago.
I sent Calman an e-mail about it and also for following bug:

When I open a saved calibration session, and add another tab it (the new tab) vanishes from time to time. I opened a saved session to add another tab which I wanted to use to verify my earlier calibration in the first tab. This vanishing seems to be repeatable if you bring up the left hand menu which slides over the tab. This menu for the enthusiast workflow contains "Introduction, Options, Meter positioning" etc...

Actions to reproduce it:

1) open a saved calibration session
2) add a new tab and give it a name "test" or so.
3) click on the new tab
4) select something in the right menu. Like grey scale or something
5) now your tab "test" is gone

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Old 03-10-2017, 11:31 AM - Thread Starter
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CalMan 5 Release Notes and Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by sawfish View Post
That's still a problem? There was a thread on that in the Spectracal forums three years ago.


It was fixed.

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Old 03-10-2017, 11:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen1000 View Post
I sent Calman an e-mail about it and also for following bug:

When I open a saved calibration session, and add another tab it (the new tab) vanishes from time to time. I opened a saved session to add another tab which I wanted to use to verify my earlier calibration in the first tab. This vanishing seems to be repeatable if you bring up the left hand menu which slides over the tab. This menu for the enthusiast workflow contains "Introduction, Options, Meter positioning" etc...

Actions to reproduce it:

1) open a saved calibration session
2) add a new tab and give it a name "test" or so.
3) click on the new tab
4) select something in the right menu. Like grey scale or something
5) now your tab "test" is gone


I will relay this information to our QA team to try to reproduce this bug.

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Old 03-10-2017, 11:42 AM
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License Serial Number: 16618304

Quote:
Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
It was fixed.
Glad to see you on-line.

Can you fix my license issue also, I can't install CalMAN 2016 R2. (Customer ID: 2240)

When I login to the portal, I don't see there my annual maintenance paid @ 2 June 2016: Order Confirmation #12436214

License Serial Number: 16618304
Maintenance End-Date: June 2017

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5

Last edited by ConnecTEDDD; 03-10-2017 at 11:49 AM.
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Old 03-10-2017, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
I will relay this information to our QA team to try to reproduce this bug.
Much appreciated!

My gear: Panasonic TH-42PF11EK pro plasma display + TX-P55VT60E -- Iscan Duo video processor -- i1 display 3 colorimeter -- i1 pro 2 spectrometer
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Old 03-10-2017, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi Jim, always the Y has to be corrected, Chromasurf is doing the job right, even profiling 'supposed unstable display like OLED's' I never had a single issue, see there some recent results: CalMan 5 Release Notes and Discussion
Has this issue been investigated and replaced?

- Rich

Oppo UPD-205 | Sonica DAC | BDP-105D | HA-1 | PM-1 | Emotiva XMC-1 | ATI Signature AT6002 x 2 + AT6006 | Revel Salon2s, Voice2, Studio2s | Velodyne HGS-15 | LG 65C7 | Lumagen 2020
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Old 03-10-2017, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post
Has this issue been investigated and replaced?

- Rich
Not fixed or confirmed that found the issue and working for a fix yet, see the current issue reported here: CalMan 5 Release Notes and Discussion

and

here: Meter profiling: does changing gamma preset invalidate the profile?

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
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