CalMan 5 Release Notes and Discussion - Page 119 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3541 of 3569 Old 03-10-2017, 12:50 PM
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Is there a recommended luminance level for meter calibration?
For example, will 40% be better 70% or visa versa?


- Rich

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post #3542 of 3569 Old 03-10-2017, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
It was fixed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Glad to see you on-line.

Can you fix my license issue also, I can't install CalMAN 2016 R2. (Customer ID: 2240)

When I login to the portal, I don't see there my annual maintenance paid @ 2 June 2016: Order Confirmation #12436214

License Serial Number: 16618304
Maintenance End-Date: June 2017
I just want to report that all are fine now, Tyler managed to solved my license issue in a few minutes. Thank you

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post #3543 of 3569 Old 03-10-2017, 05:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post
Has this issue been investigated and replaced?

- Rich


We are working on a fix right now.
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post #3544 of 3569 Old 03-11-2017, 01:10 PM
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What is the recommended method for profiling and measuring an LG OLED?

The I1Display OEM is profiled by an I1Pro2 Spectro.


When Profiling the choices are:
  • Stimulus Level
  • Display Type

When measuring with a profile, there is:
  • Meter Mode (Target Display Type)

With a profile, should I be using RAW mode for both display types.
Playing with different profiles, measurements can vary by 10% in red.

Three profiles are attached with some differences that look significant.

- Rich
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post #3545 of 3569 Old 03-13-2017, 01:10 AM
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Choose the display that matches your display type. Although when profiling it neutralizes the type, just don't change it after you profile.
Profile with the i1Pro as the reference device
Make sure the Colorimeter is running with the correct profile.

The 4 colour matrix only corrects at the luminance set point.
Try 75% luminance, this balances the weaker luminance colours with higher luminance targets.


Attached is my newly created profiler test workflow, just the pre tests. The image is of simulated, but I spent the last few days testing with a Jeti1211 and iD3 and found less than 2% XYZ error with the Calman profiler routine. But as I have always stated the 4 colour matrix is only at one luminance. If you devices do not track to each other you will get deviation away from the luminance set point.


The Calman routine may require refining (I believe they are following up according to previous examples in this thread), however it is still under 2% for XYZ for what I have tested in the last few days.
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post #3546 of 3569 Old 03-13-2017, 04:00 AM
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The best approach to OLED calibration (actually, any display that suffers Metamerism issues) is to use Perceptual Matching.
This is how many professional OLED calibration is performed.

See: http://www.lightillusion.com/percept...our_match.html
(The Guide is for LightSpace CMS, but 'should' work with any calibration system.)

This approach has been developed in partnership with Flanders Scientific, a major professional display manufacturer.
(See: http://flandersscientific.com/tech-r...htSpaceCMS.pdf)

Hope that helps.

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post #3547 of 3569 Old 03-13-2017, 04:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post
Is there a recommended luminance level for meter calibration?
For example, will 40% be better 70% or visa versa?

- Rich
H Rich,

Usually, during meter profiling, we use 75% or 100% (Stimulus Level) Luminance patches (with 100% Saturation).

For a 2.2 Gamma display, the Luminance of 75% Stimulus Patterns have about 50% of the luminance of 100% Stimulus Patterns, for selecting 75% or 100% It doesn't matter if you have a JETI / Photo Research / Minolta...where they are accurate at low luminance. but If you have i1PRO 1/2: these meters are returning chromaticity but may not be so accurate reading low Luminance levels.

Since you are using CalMAN, you may have seen that it has enabled the LLH (Low Light Handler) for i1PRO1/2 by default; and has a selection for 5,10,20 there.

Because consumer spectro's like i1PRO1/2 are not so good to low luminance readings, for example below 10nits; software will take more than one measurements to patches below 10nits (during meter profiling the Blue patch usually need that) trying to provide a more trusted readings.

For example if you select LLH with 20 samples, CalMAN will start taking measurements, but if will see that there very small deviations between these measurements, it will not measure 20 times in total, maybe 5 will be required only or less, but if there measured larger differences, then it will sample as many times as you have selected (20) and give your the average.

This is the reason that it takes less time at some patches and more at some others. If you have the i1PRO2 LED on, you can count how many times it measures each patch.

It's related also about what peak output you have during the meter profiling, for example if you have a display with 120nits peak output:

If you have a Display with White @ 120cd/m2 with Gamma 2.2:

If you perform profiling with 100% (Stimulus Level) Luminance Patterns then you will have:

100% White @ 120 cd/m2
100% Blue @ 8,6 cd/m2

If you perform profiling with 75% (Stimulus Level) Luminance Patterns then you will have:

75% White @ 63,5 cd/m2
75% Blue @ 4,5 cd/m2

If you have a Projector with White @ 14fl = 48cd/m2 with Gamma 2.2:

If you perform profiling with 100% (Stimulus Level) Luminance Patterns then you will have:

100% White @ 48 cd/m2
100% Blue @ 3,4 cd/m2
100% Red @ 10,2 cd/m2

If you perform profiling with 75% (Stimulus Level) Luminance Patterns then you will have:

75% White @ 25,4 cd/m2
75% Blue @ 1,8 cd/m2
75% Red @ 5,4 cd/m2

After some of my post and discussion at past in CalMAN 5 Topic, CalMAN changed the default software Stimulus Level from 75% to 100% for that reason.

When you use 100% Stimulus Level patterns for meter profiling you have to check first if all are fine to the levels near the 100% Luminance of the colors, using Contrast pattern (to check near White) or Color Clipping patterns (to check near R/G/B 100% levels). If you have clipping, then this can affect the profiling.

Here are some images I designed to showcase what you are checking when are you looking when you check contrast and color clipping patterns using an RGB Cube Space for presentation.

Using the Advanced Contrast Flashing Bars Pattern it's checking that area:



Using the 7-Color Clipping Bars Pattern to prevent clipping of each color channel (WRGBCMY), this sometimes can be fixed be removing some additionally clicks from the contrast control also, you are checking these areas:


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post #3548 of 3569 Old 03-13-2017, 04:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post
What is the recommended method for profiling and measuring an LG OLED?

The I1Display OEM is profiled by an I1Pro2 Spectro.


When Profiling the choices are:
  • Stimulus Level
  • Display Type

When measuring with a profile, there is:
  • Meter Mode (Target Display Type)

With a profile, should I be using RAW mode for both display types.
Playing with different profiles, measurements can vary by 10% in red.

Three profiles are attached with some differences that look significant.

- Rich
Hi Rich,

The Meter Type menu of CalMAN is basically useless for spectro's and it's confusing the users.

For i1PRO1/2, it doesn't matter what display type you will select, except:

1) If you need to take Illuminance readings (labeled as Facing Projector options) where you will have to attach your i1PRO1/2 diffuser for that.

2) In case that you have bought your i1PRO1/2 from SpectraCAL ''called as i1PRO1/2 Enhanced' which is a WRGB matrix offset for White-LED...if it helps or not, it's unknown. There so much different White-LED spectra's, many panel variations year-per-year, brand/model etc...

All that long meter table list is just for cosmetic reasons all these years for i1PRO1/2, it will be simpler for these spectro users if there only 2 modes: luminance / illuminance...for the spectro's that are capable for both....for example Colorimetry Research CR250RH is not capable for illuminance readings.

About the meter list of i1Display PRO, it's some factory corrrection X-Rite is adding to the native meter table (the generic). So selecting any of them when you profile it using a spectro, it doesn't matter which you will select (just select the default or RAW). Since CalMAN has Sync mode selection and exposure time also, you can find which combination gives more stable results before staring the measurements each display.

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post #3549 of 3569 Old 03-13-2017, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi Rich,

The Meter Type menu of CalMAN is basically useless for spectro's and it's confusing the users.

For i1PRO1/2, it doesn't matter what display type you will select, except:

1) If you need to take Illuminance readings (labeled as Facing Projector options) where you will have to attach your i1PRO1/2 diffuser for that.

2) In case that you have bought your i1PRO1/2 from SpectraCAL ''called as i1PRO1/2 Enhanced' which is a WRGB matrix offset for White-LED...if it helps or not, it's unknown. There so much different White-LED spectra's, many panel variations year-per-year, brand/model etc...

All that long meter table list is just for cosmetic reasons all these years for i1PRO1/2, it will be simpler for these spectro users if there only 2 modes: luminance / illuminance...for the spectro's that are capable for both....for example Colorimetry Research CR250RH is not capable for illuminance readings.

About the meter list of i1Display PRO, it's some factory corrrection X-Rite is adding to the native meter table (the generic). So selecting any of them when you profile it using a spectro, it doesn't matter which you will select (just select the default or RAW). Since CalMAN has Sync mode selection and exposure time also, you can find which combination gives more stable results before staring the measurements each display.

The I1Pro(2) as the measurement meter is clear in Calman.


However, when you use the I1Pro is the reference meter for a I1D3, there is a Meter type.
So the question is when using a profiled colorimeter, should the meter type be set or should it be RAW in the profile and when using the I1D3 and a profile.


- Rich

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post #3550 of 3569 Old 03-13-2017, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post
The I1Pro(2) as the measurement meter is clear in Calman.


However, when you use the I1Pro is the reference meter for a I1D3, there is a Meter type.
So the question is when using a profiled colorimeter, should the meter type be set or should it be RAW in the profile and when using the I1D3 and a profile.


- Rich
Hi Rich, if you re-read my above post, I have replied for meter type for i1DisplayPRO also.

It doesn't matter what table you will select, since the final results will be the same, just the offset will be different, the meter correction calculation will make your meter read these WRGB patches like the i1PRO you used as reference, just currently there is a bug in the CalMAN's meter correction calculation which add some errors during meter profiling, but once this will be fixed you will have better meter profiling verification results.
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post #3551 of 3569 Old 03-15-2017, 01:14 PM
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Build 5.7.2.61 R2 now available.
http://calman.spectracal.com/home-video-download.html

There's only one change from RC3
Resolved issue which caused incorrect value for *u*v gamut area coverage.

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post #3552 of 3569 Old 03-15-2017, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post
Build 5.7.2.61 R2 now available.
http://calman.spectracal.com/home-video-download.html

There's only one change from RC3
Resolved issue which caused incorrect value for *u*v gamut area coverage.


Is that the profiling fix?


- Rich

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post #3553 of 3569 Old 03-15-2017, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post
Is that the profiling fix?


- Rich
No, this is a fix only to Color Gamut Coverarage Calculation when you had selected the 1976 uv coordinates.

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post #3554 of 3569 Old 03-15-2017, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by <^..^>Smokey Joe View Post
Attached is my newly created profiler test workflow, just the pre tests.

The Calman routine may require refining (I believe they are following up according to previous examples in this thread), however it is still under 2% for XYZ for what I have tested in the last few days.
That screencap looks interesting. Have you made that workflow public?

I usually get accurate results from CalMAN's profiling, though I have a tough time with it (or at least verifying it) on displays that are unstable over time like the B6 OLEDs. On those I have a hard time getting verified accurate Klein Chromasurf profiles as well, most likely due to the display drifting in between test runs despite my efforts to keep it steady, which are hampered by Chromasurf not controlling my pattern generator.
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post #3555 of 3569 Old 03-15-2017, 11:39 PM
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Chad I was planning on it, although I want more formal statistics as part of available options. Asked SC about it awaiting info on that.


I built it to look deeper into the previous discussion about profiling.
PM me with your email, I'd like another tester of it, still needs more work.
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post #3556 of 3569 Old 03-16-2017, 01:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post
That screencap looks interesting. Have you made that workflow public?

I usually get accurate results from CalMAN's profiling, though I have a tough time with it (or at least verifying it) on displays that are unstable over time like the B6 OLEDs. On those I have a hard time getting verified accurate Klein Chromasurf profiles as well, most likely due to the display drifting in between test runs despite my efforts to keep it steady, which are hampered by Chromasurf not controlling my pattern generator.
Hi Chad, when you use JETI LiVAL and Klein ChromaSuft, you can keep open with a smaller window your CalMAN where you will have connected there only your pattern generator.

I resize the 3 program windows to fill the entire screen, having LiVal at Top-Left half side, Chromasurf Bottom-Left half side and CalMAN at the whole half right side.

In CalMAN I open this page of my workflow where it has 4 buttons for quick forcing the connected pattern generator to display each pattern required during meter profiling:



And the meter profiling is very quick and always accurate.
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post #3557 of 3569 Old 03-16-2017, 11:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post
Is that the profiling fix?


- Rich
The fix will be in the first beta of CalMAN 2017, coming very soon
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post #3558 of 3569 Old 03-16-2017, 01:18 PM
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The fix will be in the first beta of CalMAN 2017, coming very soon
Can I ask how very soon?
I have a spectro loaned until next week and I would like to know if I have the time to create the profile of my colorimeter with the next beta
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post #3559 of 3569 Old 03-16-2017, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
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The fix will be in the first beta of CalMAN 2017, coming very soon
I have a dedicated HTPC for my main display and a notebook for my other displays.
Will existing users be able to install on two systems?

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Now that Spectracal has confirmed that there indeed is a bug with profiling, the question is: Are you going to backport the fix this to previous versions?
A bug with the profiling is after all something that affects the fundamental core of a calibration program, and should be fixed in v1.1, not v5.8 or 6.0. I know of people that are still using V3.x since it does everything that they need. The same people have no reason to upgrade until HDR calibration is a reality (rather than mostly being the joke it is today), but in the mean time it would be great to actually know that something you paid top dollars for is able to do profiles, since being able to make accurate profiles are the very raison d'être of calibration.
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post #3561 of 3569 Old 03-17-2017, 11:24 AM
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So I downloaded the new stable version & it asks for a license id & license password. I have a license that has a maintenece end date of March 2017, that contains only a license SN & license key. How would one go about obtaining the new licensing info? I emailed Calman twice in a week, but have not received a response, pretty pathetic if you ask me.
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post #3562 of 3569 Old 03-17-2017, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
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So I downloaded the new stable version & it asks for a license id & license password. I have a license that has a maintenece end date of March 2017, that contains only a license SN & license key. How would one go about obtaining the new licensing info? I emailed Calman twice in a week, but have not received a response, pretty pathetic if you ask me.
in the site http://calman.spectracal.com/faq-on-...016-rev-2.html you can find more information
you should log on the site https://aquaman.portrait.com/customers/Default.aspx and you can find the info required in "License & Activations" section

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post #3563 of 3569 Old 03-17-2017, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frumenzio View Post
in the site http://calman.spectracal.com/faq-on-...016-rev-2.html you can find more information
you should log on the site https://aquaman.portrait.com/customers/Default.aspx and you can find the info required in "License & Activations" section
Thank you sir. This resolved my issue. I must have overlooked the section the FAQ's
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post #3564 of 3569 Old 03-17-2017, 02:24 PM
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So we only get one activation per license still?
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post #3565 of 3569 Old 03-17-2017, 07:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadett View Post
So we only get one activation per license still?


We can make exceptions to this on a case-by-case basis. I added an extra activation to your license.

We are more than happy to give somebody an extra activation if they have a legitimate reason.

If anyone else is in the same situation don't be afraid to reach out to me.

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post #3566 of 3569 Old 03-19-2017, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
We can make exceptions to this on a case-by-case basis. I added an extra activation to your license.

We are more than happy to give somebody an extra activation if they have a legitimate reason.

If anyone else is in the same situation don't be afraid to reach out to me.
Thank you sir. I'll put it to use.
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post #3567 of 3569 Unread Yesterday, 10:27 AM
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RE: Meter profile error

Just curious, how large of an effect will the errors introduced by the meter profiling process have on a calibration?

For instance, if I have a calibration that has less than 1 dE average across the board, will the errors affect the calibration by a degree of 1-3 dE or something like 5-10 dE?

Thanks
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post #3568 of 3569 Unread Yesterday, 05:16 PM
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anyone running calman on a linux/ubuntu laptop?
i should be able to get it running under 'wine' but no success yet.
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post #3569 of 3569 Unread Today, 02:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cat6man View Post
anyone running calman on a linux/ubuntu laptop?
i should be able to get it running under 'wine' but no success yet.
I suggest using a virtual machine. That should work.

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