CalMan 5 Release Notes and Discussion - Page 121 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3601 of 4123 Old 04-18-2017, 12:47 PM
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Hey guys, has anyone tested the CalMAN 2017 Beta to confirm that meter profiling issue has gone?

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post #3602 of 4123 Old 04-18-2017, 12:48 PM
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I didn't even know there was a beta. How do I get it?

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post #3603 of 4123 Old 04-18-2017, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hey guys, has anyone tested the CalMAN 2017 Beta to confirm that meter profiling issue has gone?
Is the Beta released?

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post #3604 of 4123 Old 04-18-2017, 12:53 PM
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I didn't even know there was a beta. How do I get it?
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Is the Beta released?
You can ask from Tyler the link: CalMan 5 Release Notes and Discussion

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post #3605 of 4123 Old 04-18-2017, 01:29 PM
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You can ask from Tyler the link:
I went to message him then realized I didn't have enough posts to PM anyone.

I noticed some discrepancies profiling my i1Display Pro with an i1Pro2 through Calman the other day. Checked it against DisplayCAL on my desktop and HCFR on my TV profiles which didn't show the issue. A quick search yielded this thread where I saw a beta is available.
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post #3606 of 4123 Old 04-18-2017, 05:19 PM
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that will be my backup option if i can't get it working under wine
well, that is what i ended up doing, running a win7 virtual machine.
i also bought an i1display pro to replace my old i1 display LT, and i now have both the i1display pro and DVDO iscan duo interfaces working.
next step, some calibration (refresher level)
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post #3607 of 4123 Old 04-19-2017, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
You can ask from Tyler the link: CalMan 5 Release Notes and Discussion
Did so a few times. Never heard back from Tyler.

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post #3608 of 4123 Old 04-22-2017, 06:50 AM
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OK i jut bought CalMAN 2016 Home about 10 days ago & now, apparently, there is some kind of bug? This is my first time dealing with SpectraCal so I don't know what their history is with this sort of thing, but for a few hundred bucks I would expect the product to work for at least a month.

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post #3609 of 4123 Old 04-22-2017, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by lovswr View Post
OK i jut bought CalMAN 2016 Home about 10 days ago & now, apparently, there is some kind of bug? This is my first time dealing with SpectraCal so I don't know what their history is with this sort of thing, but for a few hundred bucks I would expect the product to work for at least a month.
Software always has bugs.
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post #3610 of 4123 Old 04-22-2017, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by lovswr View Post
OK i jut bought CalMAN 2016 Home about 10 days ago & now, apparently, there is some kind of bug? This is my first time dealing with SpectraCal so I don't know what their history is with this sort of thing, but for a few hundred bucks I would expect the product to work for at least a month.
What people are talking about is a come-and-go math issue that pops up only when profiling one meter to another. If you aren't profiling (and sometimes even if you are), it won't affect you.

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The other bug is when the new Windows 10 Creator (April 2017 - Version 1703) is installed, it sometimes messes with the licence activation. Updated mine last night without issue.

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post #3612 of 4123 Old 04-22-2017, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post
What people are talking about is a come-and-go math issue that pops up only when profiling one meter to another. If you aren't profiling (and sometimes even if you are), it won't affect you.
For those of us who profile it's even a bigger hit since we typically have a lot of money invested in our gear.
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post #3613 of 4123 Old 04-22-2017, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovswr View Post
OK i jut bought CalMAN 2016 Home about 10 days ago & now, apparently, there is some kind of bug? This is my first time dealing with SpectraCal so I don't know what their history is with this sort of thing, but for a few hundred bucks I would expect the product to work for at least a month.
You're being a bit vague. Tell us what you're talking about and maybe we can help.
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post #3614 of 4123 Old 04-23-2017, 03:04 AM
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Software always has bugs.
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For those of us who profile it's even a bigger hit since we typically have a lot of money invested in our gear.
Yes, software have bugs but when bugs are reported, especially such important bug that affect users who has spend at least $1000 money for meter or more (some thousand dollars, all professionals), fixes supposed to be released sooner because this is a problem that affects all calibrations results.

The bug reported via email to SpectraCAL on January, initially no one responded, the user asked me what to do...because he didn't get any response, I suggest him to post to AVS and CalMAN forum also...so he posted the issue with data on February . Initially SpectraCAL claimed that it was a LightSpace issue not CalMAN (because user was getting perfect results using the same data with LightSpace), SpectraCAL confirmed that there issue on March and that is working on a fix, and we are waiting. That kind of bug need only a math check compared to posted NIST paper for meter profiling, it doesn't need any new development what requires more time. The user wrote his own utility based to the NIST PDF's I posted to this thread, it took about 10 minutes from him to write that utility, so he has solved his issue, importing to CalMAN his own (and correct) 3x3 XYZ matrix manually.
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post #3615 of 4123 Old 04-23-2017, 10:47 AM
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For those of us who profile it's even a bigger hit since we typically have a lot of money invested in our gear.
I profile also, so I'm in your camp. I just wanted to let the new user know that the bug under discussion wouldn't affect him if he isn't profiling.

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post #3616 of 4123 Old 04-23-2017, 11:01 AM
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Yes, software have bugs but when bugs are reported, especially such important bug that affect users who has spend at least $1000 money for meter or more (some thousand dollars, all professionals), fixes supposed to be released sooner because this is a problem that affects all calibrations results.

The bug reported via email to SpectraCAL on January, initially no one responded, the user asked me what to do...because he didn't get any response, I suggest him to post to AVS and CalMAN forum also...so he posted the issue with data on February . Initially SpectraCAL claimed that it was a LightSpace issue not CalMAN (because user was getting perfect results using the same data with LightSpace), SpectraCAL confirmed that there issue on March and that is working on a fix, and we are waiting. That kind of bug need only a math check compared to posted NIST paper for meter profiling, it doesn't need any new development what requires more time. The user wrote his own utility based to the NIST PDF's I posted to this thread, it took about 10 minutes from him to write that utility, so he has solved his issue, importing to CalMAN his own (and correct) 3x3 XYZ matrix manually.
Ted, with some trepidation, I'm going to disagree with you somewhat. A quick-and-dirty standalone utility is not quite the same as a routine integrated into a larger program. It may be that the core matrix math in CalMAN is correct but that the result being output to the larger program is somehow being impacted in a random manner by other functions within the program. This would make it a lot tougher to track down and stamp out. Especially so since every programmer is different, attacking problems in a unique manner, and the guy who built much of this is no longer with the company.

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post #3617 of 4123 Old 04-23-2017, 11:22 AM
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Ted, with some trepidation, I'm going to disagree with you somewhat. A quick-and-dirty standalone utility is not quite the same as a routine integrated into a larger program. It may be that the core matrix math in CalMAN is correct but that the result being output to the larger program is somehow being impacted in a random manner by other functions within the program. This would make it a lot tougher to track down and stamp out. Especially so since every programmer is different, attacking problems in a unique manner, and the guy who built much of this is no longer with the company.
It's not that difficult, you check some maths only to specif code area of the CalMAN code, any programmer can do this very quick, it's not encrypted. How Color Volume Calculator added as an new feature that TV reviews are using? ...this required much more programming than a math code check and fix for meter profiling. There no excuse for such serious bug to have so large waiting for a fix, April is over, we have May next week and we are talking for something reported on February.
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post #3618 of 4123 Old 04-23-2017, 06:32 PM
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It's not that difficult, you check some maths only to specif code area of the CalMAN code, any programmer can do this very quick, it's not encrypted. How Color Volume Calculator added as an new feature that TV reviews are using? ...this required much more programming than a math code check and fix for meter profiling. There no excuse for such serious bug to have so large waiting for a fix, April is over, we have May next week and we are talking for something reported on February.
I suspect we won't see anything until May at the earliest since NAB is this week and I don't expect Calman to drop anything during that time. Rather unfortunate.
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post #3619 of 4123 Old 04-23-2017, 08:59 PM
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You guys beat up on spectracal far to readily, however saying that I have seen the corporate effect and disconnect creep into the development of their product. Something that happens with product/software companies when the point source for income starts coming from bigger paying customers that weren't the startup group, ie enthusiasts like the many who frequent these forums. I used Derek's xls based product back in 2006~2007, I wrote a promotional review of Calman 3.1 that I believe was a catalyst to influence isf and a number of professionals (who weren't already using it) to use calman 3.1, Ironically Datacolor was the only professional and expensive product at that time. If I remember the timeline correctly, I think Chromapure was only in an initial proprietary use at that time. Newer players always seem fresh and new and forwardly responsive in the development cycle, lightspace is now as 3.1 was because Derek was very much point source communication at that time, even though Steve and lightspace started in professional and added consumer/enthusiast more recently. (ignoring the different technology time space we are in). In a few years Steve may be too overwhelmed by workload priorities to frequent forums such as this, something I've heard frequently, who has time for that!.

I write a little bit of software for scientific research with dataloggers, measurement systems with all sorts of sensors, I think it can be a little simplistic to think that a little code change in one area is easy. It might be or it might not, it really depends on how entwined the logic is. One change could mean one or twenty different alterations. Sometimes you can make a change which may be a correction to a method only to find one has unwittingly chased the original error with adjustments elsewhere in some compounded problem.

Another problem with responsiveness is maybe the fault/bug is just not reported well enough to repeat. The problem of the correction matrix is interesting in that I only could see something if I chased it, forcing an issue. Maybe because I always do my matrix that considers FOV and Y factors so not to over correct, this comes from doing corrections/calibrations on all sorts of sensors. Over correction can place the sensor into less that effective zones and cause artifacts. A bit like the over correction of 20 point adjustments in 8bit environment.
Also some other professionals didn't notice a problem, Chad for example said something of that nature. I note a common factor though, He and I use 1211 spectros and I think for along time he combined it with the i1D3 as do I. The Y actually match reasonably well for these two devices with respect to FOV or more importantly Y levels.

The method should be corrected though, irrespective of anything I noted above, but I also would go further and make a update available for those who have not got their fee up to date for that latest software. At least back to the last year or so time point.

But even if this correction is in place I'd also add that attention needs to made for Y differences, an i1pro(2) or similar level spectro as good as they are for the price point is less than optimum in Y, I believe this is device dependent variability as much as there is variability in any sensor. Although I've stated in the past making a correction profile of any sensor is mostly sound if the environment is static (ie is not moved). Problem is if the reference device is not optimal in one parameter as Y could be then your correction profile is invalid or worse in Y and correct in xy.
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post #3620 of 4123 Old 04-30-2017, 05:00 AM
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@WiFi-Spy
It's been quiet in here for a long time. Any news on the profiling fix? I would really like to get ahold of the level 2 ISF certified tech who profiled my meter to come back and reprofile it, but I am waiting for this to drop.
Also another question. Do you guys think he should charge me to reprofile it if he chose the wrong panel type? He chose RGB LED instead of BG LED, which is what my "16 Vizio P display is.

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post #3621 of 4123 Old 04-30-2017, 09:28 AM
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@WiFi-Spy
It's been quiet in here for a long time. Any news on the profiling fix? I would really like to get ahold of the level 2 ISF certified tech who profiled my meter to come back and reprofile it, but I am waiting for this to drop.
Also another question. Do you guys think he should charge me to reprofile it if he chose the wrong panel type? He chose RGB LED instead of BG LED, which is what my "16 Vizio P display is.

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Nothing yet. Tyler never responded to my emails on this topic, though he offered beta testing.

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post #3622 of 4123 Old 04-30-2017, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by skschatzman View Post
@WiFi-Spy
It's been quiet in here for a long time. Any news on the profiling fix? I would really like to get ahold of the level 2 ISF certified tech who profiled my meter to come back and reprofile it, but I am waiting for this to drop.
Also another question. Do you guys think he should charge me to reprofile it if he chose the wrong panel type? He chose RGB LED instead of BG LED, which is what my "16 Vizio P display is.

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It does not matter. 2+2 is the same as 1+3.
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post #3623 of 4123 Old 04-30-2017, 10:39 AM
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It does not matter. 2+2 is the same as 1+3.
Yah I was thinking the same thing, however I didn't know how the math is calculated for different panel types. If the results are the same, then why is there even an option?

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post #3624 of 4123 Old 04-30-2017, 11:07 AM
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Math is the same regardless.
Ask Spectracal.
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post #3625 of 4123 Old 04-30-2017, 11:14 AM
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Yah I was thinking the same thing, however I didn't know how the math is calculated for different panel types. If the results are the same, then why is there even an option?

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The options are for those using out of the box non-profiled colorimeters. As soon as you select a profile, the display type option is rendered moot.
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It does not matter. 2+2 is the same as 1+3.
You are always suppose to choose the closest match to the display you have. I don't agree with your analogy. It would be fine if you could choose the right display type after but you cannot.

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The options are for those using out of the box non-profiled colorimeters. As soon as you select a profile, the display type option is rendered moot.
It's not moot because you can't use that profile with every display type. You profile for each type.

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post #3628 of 4123 Old 04-30-2017, 12:17 PM
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You are always suppose to choose the closest match to the display you have. I don't agree with your analogy. It would be fine if you could choose the right display type after but you cannot.
Wrong.

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It's not moot because you can't use that profile with every display type. You profile for each type.
Wrong again.
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post #3629 of 4123 Old 04-30-2017, 12:24 PM
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Wrong.



Wrong again.
If I'm wrong then why can he not chose the profile if he selects the correct backlight type? Why do all the instructions out there say you should select the same or as close to the same if one doesn't exist?


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My P75-C1 Calibration Settings (3.2.13.3).
My P75-C1 BETA Calibration Settings (3.3.18.1).
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post #3630 of 4123 Old 04-30-2017, 12:31 PM
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It just means that you didn't understand the analogy that you just disagreed with.

Can you link to these instructions you talk about? If it's true then it's probably done so to not further confuse the customer.
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