CalMan 5 Release Notes and Discussion - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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Old 10-18-2012, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dannoooo View Post

Hey P5browne, Im using "plasma" as my meter mode. I didnt think to try any others as my tv is a plasma.
Hey Joel, I have a Samsung 64d8000 putting out 33 ftL at my desired contrast setting. I am getting what i think is inaccurate reads, both blues and reds are too high IMO. Blues way up there... and also occasional erratic reads. I do not have a second meter. My OS is windows 7 Home edition brand new laptop...just fyi,also my meter is brand new. (I guess it is unlikely it is faulty but it can be). I'm just trying to rule out all other possible problems here...
I did increase my exposure to 2 seconds and have played with sync mode but it has not changed the outcome color-wise although i dont recall seeing erratic swings since then...I will try again this weekend but was hoping that someone with similar conditions as me would have a meter profile i could use. I did get some numbers from one of the the forum members here but he had some negative XYZ numbers that I could not enter into calman5 ( i spoke with yr tech support on this) I know it wont be exact but should be closer than not using one at all...
Thx for the help guys

You cannot use a profile from another system!
Before every new calibration, I create a new profile. Conditions of every sort can happen! A lot less problems by re-profiling each time.
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Old 10-18-2012, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by turbe View Post

^^^
If your Kuro is one of the Elite's (NA Model), activate and calibrate the ISFccc Interface, setup isf Night memory for Reference (BD, total darkness) viewing and use isf Day memory for the other .. very easy to switch between ISF memories.

Thanks turbe, but it's not the elite.....

Paul
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Old 10-18-2012, 11:32 AM
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since you said Kuro, there is a 50/50 chance it's a 9G (5020FD/6020FD), you can actually swap a board/add a Register to the current board and upgrade its calibration ability to the Elite's but not if your Kuro is a 8G.

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Old 10-18-2012, 11:34 AM
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It's a 6010 (8G I believe)......what setting would you recommend?

Paul
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Old 10-18-2012, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

Profiling is a display to display thing. So if someone did a profile on a different display its not going to help you.
When you say funky do you mean erratic or just plain inaccurate?
If you are getting erratic readings, try lengthening your exposure mode.
Also what type of display are you measuring and how much light is it putting out?

I took your hook, line and sinker, ordered your C6 to be profiled with my I1Pro 2, the reason why I am getting the C6 is because of using 3D glasses to calibrate in 3D mode.

I have a VT50, are there any suggestions on how to set up Calman for a 3D LUT 125 point cube and 21 point gray scale using your C6?

btw, your CM5E RC3/4 using 3D LUT 125 point/21 point gray scale coupled with the Lumagen Mini, I1Pro2 profiled with my display and using the small windows generated by my Mini is giving me PQ I never thought was possible. Kudo's to you and your team.
Side note, I amusing my older lap top because it has a RS232 port so I can hook direct to my Mini, I have your USB adapter and will be trying that out on my new lap top.

ss
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Old 10-18-2012, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dannoooo View Post

I did get some numbers from one of the the forum members here but he had some negative XYZ numbers that I could not enter into calman5 ( i spoke with yr tech support on this) I know it wont be exact but should be closer than not using one at all...

No it's entirely possible that it could be further off.

You really need to trust your meter.

If the the meter says it's too blue, it's likely too blue.
The reason you use a meter is because you can't trust your eyes to do white balance.

For erratic readings you can increase the exposure time or toggle the sync setting.

If you think the meter is measuring incorrectly, you either have a broken meter or you need to buy a better one. Don't think because somebody else had different settings on the same set that your meter is off.

Trust your meter

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Old 10-18-2012, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

I took your hook, line and sinker, ordered your C6 to be profiled with my I1Pro 2, the reason why I am getting the C6 is because of using 3D glasses to calibrate in 3D mode.
I have a VT50, are there any suggestions on how to set up Calman for a 3D LUT 125 point cube and 21 point gray scale using your C6?
btw, your CM5E RC3/4 using 3D LUT 125 point/21 point gray scale coupled with the Lumagen Mini, I1Pro2 profiled with my display and using the small windows generated by my Mini is giving me PQ I never thought was possible. Kudo's to you and your team.
Side note, I amusing my older lap top because it has a RS232 port so I can hook direct to my Mini, I have your USB adapter and will be trying that out on my new lap top.
ss

I use a i1 Pro + C6 at home with a lumagen on a VT25. Small windows definitely give the best results for plasma.

Profiling for normal content (non-stereoscopic content) is straightforward. I just measure in contact mode with both meters. I do multi-pass so I read the i1 Pro first, the put the C6 right where the i1 Pro was and do the second round of readings.


Doing stereoscopic profiling is a different thing entirely.
To do this well you'll need to work in a light controlled environment and use a tripod. You need to get the i1 Pro far enough back that you can get the 3D glasses to sync to the TV in 3D mode. I might bump the window size to large or even to full screen if need be so you make sure that the meter isn't reading the "off" area. You'll also want the C6 to read in non-contact mode so you'll need to match field of view so the C6 should be about 4-6" closer to the TV than the i1 Pro.

Once again use multi-pass, read with the i1 Pro first with the glasses in front of it. Then read the with the C6 without the glasses.

After you profile the C6 for 3D mode, you can then use it in contact mode with small windows and calibrate just like you normally would.

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Old 10-18-2012, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hidefpaul View Post

It's a 6010 (8G I believe)......what setting would you recommend?
Paul

from the reports I have heard from the calibrators, use Gamma 3

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Old 10-18-2012, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

No it's entirely possible that it could be further off.
You really need to trust your meter.
If the the meter says it's too blue, it's likely too blue.
The reason you use a meter is because you can't trust your eyes to do white balance.
For erratic readings you can increase the exposure time or toggle the sync setting.
If you think the meter is measuring incorrectly, you either have a broken meter or you need to buy a better one. Don't think because somebody else had different settings on the same set that your meter is off.
Trust your meter

Thx Joel
I put a call into yr sales team...Im checking into renting an i1pro so at least i have a reference to check against...Thx for your advice
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Old 10-18-2012, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

I use a i1 Pro + C6 at home with a lumagen on a VT25. Small windows definitely give the best results for plasma.
Profiling for normal content (non-stereoscopic content) is straightforward. I just measure in contact mode with both meters. I do multi-pass so I read the i1 Pro first, the put the C6 right where the i1 Pro was and do the second round of readings.
Doing stereoscopic profiling is a different thing entirely.
To do this well you'll need to work in a light controlled environment and use a tripod. You need to get the i1 Pro far enough back that you can get the 3D glasses to sync to the TV in 3D mode. I might bump the window size to large or even to full screen if need be so you make sure that the meter isn't reading the "off" area. You'll also want the C6 to read in non-contact mode so you'll need to match field of view so the C6 should be about 4-6" closer to the TV than the i1 Pro.
Once again use multi-pass, read with the i1 Pro first with the glasses in front of it. Then read the with the C6 without the glasses.
After you profile the C6 for 3D mode, you can then use it in contact mode with small windows and calibrate just like you normally would.

Thanks for your reply.

So there is no need to profile these two meters side by side at the same time?

ss
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Old 10-18-2012, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Thanks for your reply.
So there is no need to profile these two meters side by side at the same time?
ss

Side by side is the sort of quick and dirty way to do it.

Talking with our Lab guy about it, only on displays that are extremely unstable would side by side be preferable.

Joel Barsotti
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Old 10-18-2012, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

I use a i1 Pro + C6 at home with a lumagen on a VT25. Small windows definitely give the best results for plasma.
Profiling for normal content (non-stereoscopic content) is straightforward. I just measure in contact mode with both meters. I do multi-pass so I read the i1 Pro first, the put the C6 right where the i1 Pro was and do the second round of readings.

I prefer this simple approach over using both meters in non-contact mode and trying to match FOV as best possible. Multi-pass does seem like the right way to do it, since it eliminates screen uniformity as a factor.

Does it matter what mode the C6 is in when profiling? Would I use LCD Direct View (Wide Gamut White LED) or LCD Direct View (White LED) for a 2012 Samsung EH series LED-LCD?
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Old 10-18-2012, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

I prefer this simple approach over using both meters in non-contact mode and trying to match FOV as best possible. Multi-pass does seem like the right way to do it, since it eliminates screen uniformity as a factor.
Does it matter what mode the C6 is in when profiling? Would I use LCD Direct View (Wide Gamut White LED) or LCD Direct View (White LED) for a 2012 Samsung EH series LED-LCD?

Nope, mode for the target meter doesn't matter at all.

If your i1 Pro is an enhanced meter, than selecting the white LED table will enabled the i1 Pro to use it's enhanced mode. Otherwise the spectro is just working like a spectro.

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Old 10-18-2012, 02:16 PM
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Is it possibly to take digital pictures on the display before and after calibration and see the difference? I read it wouldn't be able to show the difference in white balance and saturation, but I was wondering if setting the white balance would fix that? How do the pro websites do it? Do they just alter the picture in photocopy to represent the difference? I would love to be able to see a side by side comparison before and after calibrating.
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Old 10-18-2012, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by anikun07 View Post

Is it possibly to take digital pictures on the display before and after calibration and see the difference? I read it wouldn't be able to show the difference in white balance and saturation, but I was wondering if setting the white balance would fix that? How do the pro websites do it? Do they just alter the picture in photocopy to represent the difference? I would love to be able to see a side by side comparison before and after calibrating.

u can definitely see the difference in the before / after images IF the calibration made a visible difference... and obviously it would be preferred to view these before / after images on a calibrated screen as well... ;-)

I took before / after images with my iPhone and since it was the same camera and the same screen (--> iPhone) used for before / after images I was able to see the calibration difference on these images, (both) pics just look a little bit different compared to the real world b/c the iPhone screen gives a slight red push IMO...

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Old 10-18-2012, 07:06 PM
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Hm..I'm trying to start and advance calibration, I have my i1 Display Pro connected and found, I selected AVS Rec 709 1.2B, but I get some crazy Y-Max readings. When I click continuous read the software keeps popping up the box telling me to go to 100% gray/white and then I'll get a reading of something like 2565965.31, I hit enter again and it shows 19.45, and it goes back and forth til the box stops popping up.


Edit: Okay, I think that's part of Initialization which my meter does not need..
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Old 10-18-2012, 07:24 PM
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You probably don't have a IR connection between your computer and your source player, so just use generic disc setting and change the patterns manually.

ss
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Old 10-18-2012, 07:44 PM
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Yep, you're right about that. Also, I read to disable the X-Rite service in Windows and I think it's reading right now.
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Old 10-18-2012, 08:29 PM
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My downloaded AVS Rec 709 disc says v. 1.2 should it say on the window 1.2b? I'm having trouble finding near white 107 and 108, are these on the disc from SpectraCal?
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Old 10-18-2012, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anikun07 View Post

My downloaded AVS Rec 709 disc says v. 1.2 should it say on the window 1.2b? I'm having trouble finding near white 107 and 108, are these on the disc from SpectraCal?
I don't believe they are on that disc.

Make sure you setup the disc as your source.

it's in the list, and if you select it, CalMAN will only use patterns that are on the disc.

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Old 10-18-2012, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by sotti View Post

I don't believe they are on that disc.
Make sure you setup the disc as your source.
it's in the list, and if you select it, CalMAN will only use patterns that are on the disc.

Will CalMAN 5 ever support the final version of the AVS disc (Version 2D)? It's been out since November 2010.
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Old 10-18-2012, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

Will CalMAN 5 ever support the final version of the AVS disc (Version 2D)? It's been out since November 2010.

I believe it's architecture doesn't lend itself to the way our IR automation works.

I know we are working on updating the discs we support.

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Old 10-19-2012, 09:14 AM
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Can the reports in Calman 5 be customized? I saw the options to change the chart type for each one's properties, but it didn't send those on to the generated report. Also, can additional charts be added to the generated report? I would be interested in having a lumination and x y Y and delta E table. The report that was created by default has RGB Levels (line graph, Bar Graph would be nice in the report), Gamma (line graph), CIE, 10-step IRE Delta E 2000 (bar graph), Color Delta E 2000 (bar graph), and Gamut Luminance (bar graph)
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Old 10-19-2012, 09:25 AM
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Can the reports in Calman 5 be customized?
Only in the Business versions.
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Old 10-19-2012, 09:28 AM
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Gotcha, thanks. Would posting screen shots and making my own report be against the EULA? Or is it more like a feature HT doesn't have so I'm doing it manually?
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Old 10-19-2012, 10:42 AM
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Gotcha, thanks. Would posting screen shots and making my own report be against the EULA? Or is it more like a feature HT doesn't have so I'm doing it manually?

In the HT products you aren't allowed to create or edit the Report Templates, so it's not that it's against the EULA (although I believe hacking the program to get functionality that isn't allowed by your license is against the EULA) it's more that you just can't do it with home theater.

If you have enthusiast and you want to build a final "report" step on to a workflow, you're more than welcome to build it and share it.
We even have a spot on our forums for sharing custom workflows.
http://www.spectracal.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=95

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Old 10-19-2012, 10:58 AM
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Also, I saw with the AVS 709 v. 1.2 disc I downloaded, it doesn't have small window patterns. Is full field or windowed better than the other? And does it matter if I use the Calman patterns versus HCFR patterns? I assumed they use the same images. I'm wondering if there would be a difference between the current AVS 709 disc and v. 1.2 if I were to use the small window patterns. Do small windows give any better results besides peak light output?


Edit: I see in the Calman 4 documentation to use 75% saturation except for 100% white
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Old 10-19-2012, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anikun07 View Post

Also, I saw with the AVS 709 v. 1.2 disc I downloaded, it doesn't have small window patterns. Is full field or windowed better than the other? And does it matter if I use the Calman patterns versus HCFR patterns? I assumed they use the same images. I'm wondering if there would be a difference between the current AVS 709 disc and v. 1.2 if I were to use the small window patterns. Do small windows give any better results besides peak light output?
Edit: I see in the Calman 4 documentation to use 75% saturation except for 100% white

Yes AVS 709 has small window patterns, click on APL not windows. For a plasma use small 75% windows, white 100%.

ss
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Old 10-19-2012, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

Side by side is the sort of quick and dirty way to do it.
Talking with our Lab guy about it, only on displays that are extremely unstable would side by side be preferable.

When profiling with 3D glasses, should I also have the glasses on the C6 and I1Pro 2 or just the I1pro 2.

When I use the 3D glasses on both the I1pro 2 and the C6, a warning pups up and says something like the profile is out of Calman's suggested range.

ss
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Old 10-19-2012, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

Talking with our Lab guy about it, only on displays that are extremely unstable would side by side be preferable.

sotti,

not sure if I understand this correctly since the readings for reference and target meter are not done at the same time... can you elaborate on this ?

Thanks.

- M

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