CalMan 5 Release Notes and Discussion - Page 133 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3961 of 4045 Old 09-12-2017, 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by poppagene View Post
Patterns are in the app, so CalMAN connects with the app and tells the app which which pattern to display.
Ah, cool. 100% awesome idea by Spectracal.
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post #3962 of 4045 Old 09-12-2017, 02:12 PM
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I calibrated a C7 today at Value Electronics and remembered to take Pre Calibration along with the Post Calibration scans when calibrating Dolby Vision for those who are interested what the set looks "out of the box" and after DV calibration.

The comparison is startling. Apparently the panel I worked on today deviated a lot from the average panel configuration installed at the factory which is why you need to calibrate DV on the LG if you want the best picture quality.
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File Type: jpeg DVPreCal.jpeg (230.0 KB, 213 views)
File Type: jpeg DVPostCal.jpeg (282.8 KB, 49 views)
File Type: jpeg DVPostCal2.jpeg (194.8 KB, 212 views)

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post #3963 of 4045 Old 09-12-2017, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
I calibrated a C7 today at Value Electronics and remembered to take Pre Calibration along with the Post Calibration scans when calibrating Dolby Vision for those who are interested what the set looks "out of the box" and after DV calibration.

The comparison is startling. Apparently the panel I worked on today deviated a lot from the average panel configuration installed at the factory which is why you need to calibrate DV on the LG if you want the best picture quality.
Kinda funny all the posters that told me on here and other forums for the past year that you would just play a DV disc and it would look perfect.
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post #3964 of 4045 Old 09-12-2017, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
Kinda funny all the posters that told me on here and other forums for the past year that you would just play a DV disc and it would look perfect.
So it really depends on you 2017 panel. Depending on how close it is to the panels that LG used to generate the configuration file they loaded at the factory will depend on how much of an improvement you will see after the calibration. Unfortunately, there is no way to tell unless you go through the Calman DV workflow.

I've done several sets and this one was the most dramatic. Also it takes a long time to do the 20 pt pre cal in relative mode because there is no compensation file and because of the high luminance, you really need to become experienced on how everything interacts to get the final result posted above.

The results are satisfying but it is a lot of work.

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post #3965 of 4045 Old 09-12-2017, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
So it really depends on you 2017 panel. Depending on how close it is to the panels that LG used to generate the configuration file they loaded at the factory will depend on how much of an improvement you will see after the calibration. Unfortunately, there is no way to tell unless you go through the Calman DV workflow.

I've done several sets and this one was the most dramatic. Also it takes a long time to do the 20 pt pre cal in relative mode because there is no compensation file and because of the high luminance, you really need to become experienced on how everything interacts to get the final result posted above.
Understood. It was just when you tried to have the DV calibration discussion with fanboys, they were having none of it.
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post #3966 of 4045 Old 09-12-2017, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
Understood. It was just when you tried to have the DV calibration discussion with fanboys, they were having none of it.
From what I can tell, I don't think there are many calibrators actually doing DV calibration or there would be a lot more discussion. Trust me, there are a lot of "tricks" needed and special generators, for now, to do this calibration.

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post #3967 of 4045 Old 09-12-2017, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
From what I can tell, I don't think there are many calibrators actually doing DV calibration or there would be a lot more discussion. Trust me, there are a lot of "tricks" needed and special generators, for now, to do this calibration.
No doubt. I just think there is too much variance to make everything perfect from the factory, anyone that wants reference will need a person with pro gear, or a nice personal budget and time.
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post #3968 of 4045 Old 09-12-2017, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
I calibrated a C7 today at Value Electronics and remembered to take Pre Calibration along with the Post Calibration scans when calibrating Dolby Vision for those who are interested what the set looks "out of the box" and after DV calibration.

The comparison is startling. Apparently the panel I worked on today deviated a lot from the average panel configuration installed at the factory which is why you need to calibrate DV on the LG if you want the best picture quality.
Nice job on the grayscale, but your Gamut dE2000 went way up.
That is interesting. Same thing happens, only not quite as much when you try and tweak the grayscale after installing a 709 3DLUT in a Lumagen Pro processor.

Thanks for posting, that gives me a better idea of what to look out for when I try to make a DV calibration. It seems you are really fighting the installed Gamut calibration in the LG, when making some rather large adjustments to the grayscale.

ss
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
I calibrated a C7 today at Value Electronics and remembered to take Pre Calibration along with the Post Calibration scans when calibrating Dolby Vision for those who are interested what the set looks "out of the box" and after DV calibration.

The comparison is startling. Apparently the panel I worked on today deviated a lot from the average panel configuration installed at the factory which is why you need to calibrate DV on the LG if you want the best picture quality.
Hi John,

So the grayscale tracking improved but the color errors increased from 3dE max (~1.8dE Average Pre-Cal) to 9dE max (~6.6dE Average Post-Cal)?




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post #3970 of 4045 Old 09-13-2017, 04:59 AM
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^^^
Yep, it's due to increased CMS luminance errors. If I switch that off on the post cal CMS graph, then the CMS is improved over the pre-cal.

It's kind of strange because in the pre-cal, it's the gray scale that has large luminance errors.

I double checked everything and D-Nice is taking a look at the raw calibration session to see if he can reproduce the same results.

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post #3971 of 4045 Old 09-13-2017, 05:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
^^^
Yep, it's due to increased CMS luminance errors. If I switch that off on the post cal CMS graph, then the CMS is improved over the pre-cal.

It's kind of strange because in the pre-cal, it's the gray scale that has large luminance errors.

I double checked everything and D-Nice is taking a look at the raw calibration session to see if he can reproduce the same results.
There reports of CalMAN don't show the Luminance errrors. Edit the workflow you are using, and add a Gamut (Absolute) Luminance Chart and then post a screenshot or pre/post....to see the +- of gamut luminance errors you are getting.

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^^^
Will do, but now i'm thinking that maybe the ABL kicked in during the scan. I didn't have the auto pause interval set the way the workflow indicated. As I relayed before, due to the high luminance levels, the screen heats up very quickly so you can't leave the patches up without the results moving, especially the CMS patches, and the workflow wants a pause with a dark screen up frequently.

I can tell you that the DV PQ with content after the calibration looked excellent, way better than the pre-cal so we need to do more investigation to see what's going on.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
^^^
Will do, but now i'm thinking that maybe the ABL kicked in during the scan. I didn't have the auto pause interval set the way the workflow indicated. As I relayed before, due to the high luminance levels, the screen heats up very quickly so you can't leave the patches up without the results moving, especially the CMS patches, and the workflow wants a pause with a dark screen up frequently.

I can tell you that the DV PQ with content after the calibration looked excellent, way better than the pre-cal so we need to do more investigation to see what's going on.
You are using K-10A K-10A, so the faster meter available, for each patch it takes about 0.250 sec to being measured if you are using 5 sample average.

It's not needed the dark screen insertion because you are in HDR mode and it will be super bright, at full field patch. 6 colors you are measure....the same time you have perfect results during 21-point post grayscale run, the colors are worse than pre-cal, so it's not a display problem.

So it's impossible the ABL to kick in....and kick in only for post-cal and not during pre-cal.

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^^^

I appreciate your input but as I said, D-Nice and I are going to do some investigation and then consult with Tyler to see what's going on and will get back to the forum. The process is so complex with so many moving parts that it's hard to say at this moment what's going on. At the end of the day, doing a comparison of pre and post cal DV PQ, side by side, the DV calibrated set's PQ is superior overall.
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New toy is in, nice case.



Looking at the setup guide, what Target Display Type should I pick for a 2017 Sony 940E, LCD LED White?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
At the end of the day, doing a comparison of pre and post cal DV PQ, side by side, the DV calibrated set's PQ is superior overall.
Calibration it has not to do with what it like us better, it has to do with what is more accurate and closer to the standards. If you post luminance chart we will see if you have more or less luminance to the colors, because at CIE chart we see only 2 dimensions of the colors.

Do you have 2 TV's of the same model, which have the same pre-calibration performance to the side-by-side test?

Keep us updated.

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post #3977 of 4045 Old 09-14-2017, 03:24 AM
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
New toy is in, nice case.


Looking at the setup guide, what Target Display Type should I pick for a 2017 Sony 940E, LCD LED White?
LED blue green is what was recommended for the 940D.
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post #3978 of 4045 Old 09-14-2017, 03:31 AM
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
New toy is in, nice case.


Looking at the setup guide, what Target Display Type should I pick for a 2017 Sony 940E, LCD LED White?
You might want to check out this thread from the spectracal forums on last years model

http://www.spectracal.com/forum/view...php?f=9&t=6107
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Thanks for the link, good stuff. I never would have thought LED BG lol.

I also did read turn off LD during cal, and then turn back on when done. Also two calibrators told me that too.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
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Looking at the setup guide, what Target Display Type should I pick for a 2017 Sony 940E, LCD LED White?
Let us know if running CalMAN shows your meter as HDR2000 or merely the old C6.

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Let us know if running CalMAN shows your meter as HDR2000 or merely the old C6.
I saw that post on the other site.

I have a USB ext cable coming today, and will test it all out tonight.
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
I saw that post on the other site.

I have a USB ext cable coming today, and will test it all out tonight.
Great! I've been playing with mine (never shows HDR2000, just C6, though it includes the serial and you can pull up the calibration info in the app).

Did both a Rec709 and Rec2020 for HDR recently following the many pointers JRP has provided for using the Lumagen Pro in my setup. Setting up the 3D LUT Cube for HDR by choosing Color Gamut Target BT2020 SDR and telling the Lumagen Pro to use CMS Colorspace of SDR2020 and Gamma to 3D LUT is SDR.
The results of doing a 3D LUT Cube are interesting. Whether a Lightning LUT or picking 1500 target for the number of points I get some weirdly out of line results for about 5 colors. Guess either AutoCal needs quite a bit of work or maybe it's something to do with the meter. Don't know at this point. I've but one HDR disc so far that I'll be watching: Blade Runner. Need to get a couple more that are well produced and worth watching in the future. Most newer films are not worth acquiring. But older ones, maybe E.T., I'm likely to return to.

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CalMAN 2017 R2 5.8.2 Open Beta Starts

CalMAN 2017 version 5.8.2 build 24 is available for download.

Business - http://files.spectracal.com/download...N_Business.exe
Home Theater - http://files.spectracal.com/download...alMAN_Home.exe
Studio - http://files.spectracal.com/download...MAN_Studio.exe


Notes

CalMAN 2017 R2 (5.8.2) requires updated maintenance as of September 2016.

CalMAN no longer deactivates itself when upgrading. Licenses at this point should remain stable.
If you are running CalMAN 5.7.2 or earlier, you will need to manually deactivate CalMAN before upgrading.

We've updated our method for calculating 3D LUTs. 3D LUTs will generally give better accuracy performance.

Added SDR AutoCal support for Samsung 2016 models which have the xlink plug.
Note - We cannot get the state of the DDC controls upon connection. Performing a full DDC reset in CalMAN will sync the DDC controls with the display.
Ultimate, Professional, Video Pro, Studio, ISF, Home Enthusiast, Control

Added support for the HDFury SDK. This enables the HDFury support without the need to copy and paste data from their software. It is listed under HDFury for the manufacturer. The old method is still there under AVTOPcontroller.
The driver for the HDFury needs to be installed for this to work properly. It can be downloaded from http://www.hdfury.com.
Ultimate, Professional, Video Pro, ISF, Studio, ColorMatch, Home Enthusiast

Added support for the Konvision as a display and source.
Ultimate, Studio

Added support for the Konica Minolta CS-150
Ultimate, Professional, Video Pro, ISF, Studio, ColorMatch

Added support for the DataColor Spyder 5 to the ColorMatch license level.

Added options in CalMAN to select VideoForge PRO 4K resolutions and the Multiburst pattern

We've recently updated our digital signature cert. Microsoft SmartScreen may not automatically recognize the new cert for our company. This is temporary until everything updates on Microsoft's side.
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post #3984 of 4045 Old 09-14-2017, 02:12 PM
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You just beat me to posting the new Beta! Getting slower in my old age I guess?

Did include the numbers that wouldn't copy, to paste.

http://spectracal.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=138&t=6486

1. CalMAN 2017 R2 (5.8.2) requires updated maintenance as of September 2016.

2. CalMAN no longer deactivates itself when upgrading. Licenses at this point should remain stable.
If you are running CalMAN 5.7.2 or earlier, you will need to manually deactivate CalMAN before upgrading.

3. We've updated our method for calculating 3D LUTs. 3D LUTs will generally give better accuracy performance.

4. Added SDR AutoCal support for Samsung 2016 models which have the xlink plug.
Note - We cannot get the state of the DDC controls upon connection. Performing a full DDC reset in CalMAN will sync the DDC controls with the display.
Ultimate, Professional, Video Pro, Studio, ISF, Home Enthusiast, Control

5. Added support for the HDFury SDK. This enables the HDFury support without the need to copy and paste data from their software. It is listed under HDFury for the manufacturer. The old method is still there under AVTOPcontroller.
The driver for the HDFury needs to be installed for this to work properly. It can be downloaded from http://www.hdfury.com.
Ultimate, Professional, Video Pro, ISF, Studio, ColorMatch, Home Enthusiast

6. Added support for the Konvision as a display and source.
Ultimate, Studio

7. Added support for the Konica Minolta CS-150
Ultimate, Professional, Video Pro, ISF, Studio, ColorMatch

8. Added support for the DataColor Spyder 5 to the ColorMatch license level.

9. Added options in CalMAN to select VideoForge PRO 4K resolutions and the Multiburst pattern

10. We've recently updated our digital signature cert. Microsoft SmartScreen may not automatically recognize the new cert for our company. This is temporary until everything updates on Microsoft's side.

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post #3985 of 4045 Old 09-14-2017, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjschaff View Post
Let us know if running CalMAN shows your meter as HDR2000 or merely the old C6.
Using 5.8.1.37 Home Theater
Serial number matches, and it just reports Spectracal C6
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The Mobile Forge App sideloaded into the Android TV is pretty cool. I do note when you are done, go into settings and apps and force a shutdown on the app, it can be wonky next time you try and load if you don't.

Selecting patterns during a workflow is super easy, just click one (like 80%) and bam, it is on screen. Sometimes you have to click twice. Its nice you can also choose your pattern type like 10%, 18%, APL, full field.

One question, under the mobile forge settings, where you select window size, etc... should expand video to PC levels be checked?
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post #3987 of 4045 Old 09-14-2017, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
The Mobile Forge App sideloaded into the Android TV is pretty cool. I do note when you are done, go into settings and apps and force a shutdown on the app, it can be wonky next time you try and load if you don't.

Selecting patterns during a workflow is super easy, just click one (like 80%) and bam, it is on screen. Sometimes you have to click twice. Its nice you can also choose your pattern type like 10%, 18%, APL, full field.

One question, under the mobile forge settings, where you select window size, etc... should expand video to PC levels be checked?
Un-check expand to PC levels.
You select window size, etc in calman under the source settings tab.
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Last edited by jrref; 09-14-2017 at 07:34 PM.
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post #3988 of 4045 Old 09-14-2017, 07:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
The Mobile Forge App sideloaded into the Android TV is pretty cool. I do note when you are done, go into settings and apps and force a shutdown on the app, it can be wonky next time you try and load if you don't.



Selecting patterns during a workflow is super easy, just click one (like 80%) and bam, it is on screen. Sometimes you have to click twice. Its nice you can also choose your pattern type like 10%, 18%, APL, full field.



One question, under the mobile forge settings, where you select window size, etc... should expand video to PC levels be checked?


That is something that I haven’t tested I would recommend comparing it to a pattern disk and then decide.
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post #3989 of 4045 Old 09-15-2017, 12:15 AM
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Tyler,would it be possible to implement a button for "10 minutes no signal/connection auto power off" enable/disable for the murideo 6G in the calman program,as of right now it is enabled in the murideo 1.81 software and i have to start that program every time and select disable of that feature before starting the calman program,it is so annoying if you forget this and all of a sudden the murideo shuts down.

Calman Enthusiast,Lightspace HTP,Klein K-10A,I1pro2,Murideo 6G.

Last edited by T( )( )L; 09-15-2017 at 02:52 AM.
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post #3990 of 4045 Old 09-15-2017, 09:41 AM
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Tyler, any eta for the full Dolby Vision support eg. Custom DV - software patch generation with LG OLED's, (which currently can only be done with the murideo six-g / VF PRO 4K)?


TIA.
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