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post #2371 of 2569 Old 05-21-2014, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1forsnow View Post

I used this:



i have to admit, i am a rookie with this patch generator, so i wanted to start with the basics. I used hdmi out, but I have verified its accuracy against a dvdo tpg which calman now has triplet support for.
Once i get more familiar with the patch generator, i will expand my patch options.

standard 10^3 linear with custom 21 pt GS... u could optionally use 65 GS points since the eeColor has 65 GS points...

to keep it simple for the next val patch set, u could use the same 10^3 but apply 100% weight - it will push more points in the 25-75% brt range, possibly more similar to real world content...
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post #2372 of 2569 Old 05-22-2014, 06:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Mike View Post

standard 10^3 linear with custom 21 pt GS... u could optionally use 65 GS points since the eeColor has 65 GS points...

to keep it simple for the next val patch set, u could use the same 10^3 but apply 100% weight - it will push more points in the 25-75% brt range, possibly more similar to real world content...

thank you Mike for the tip. What would my options be if i wanted to make a 1000ish patch but in the 5-75% brt range? The 25-75% brt range is also good, but i would like some low end points to verify too. Thanks
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post #2373 of 2569 Old 05-22-2014, 09:32 AM
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Well just broke my laptop so might be a bit before I got a chance to calibrate again
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post #2374 of 2569 Old 05-22-2014, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1forsnow View Post

thank you Mike for the tip. What would my options be if i wanted to make a 1000ish patch but in the 5-75% brt range? The 25-75% brt range is also good, but i would like some low end points to verify too. Thanks

yes, a grid seq pushes lots of points in the higher brt range, it looks like a good distribution/coverage on the CIE charts, but since these charts don't display brt levels it can be very misleading...

for a very standard, custom patch val set w/ 1087 points, just punch in these numbers from here - will take you 30 secs: http://displaycalibrationtools.com/display-calibration-guides-and-workflows/panasonic-65vt60-lightspace-eecolor-3d-lut-calibration/#val_patch_set

As you can see, you can further refine this set by playing with the parameters, but as a starting point this is very easy to understand what it does. On the CIE chart you will see the gaps between the hues that are sampled (so it looks like less good coverage), but the brt levels (not shown on the CIE graph) for each of those hues are sampled very thoroughly - it's always a compromise of what you want and final size of the patch set...

And again, you can adjust all of these parameters...

- M

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post #2375 of 2569 Old 05-23-2014, 06:10 PM
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I created another LUT last night on my kuro and also created a custom color patch per Mike's recommendation above. It was a "detailed" LUT within calman(latest version). The higher errors are again from a blue saturation issue that i have no way around.

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post #2376 of 2569 Old 05-23-2014, 06:13 PM
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And you were wondering what you were going to do this weekend:

New Calamn 5.3.5 RC2 Build #1570 ready for download:

http://color.spectracal.com/downloads

A quick note:

We added a new feature called Pattern Delay Optimization.
There is now a button on the Source tab called Optimize. CalMAN will take some series of readings to help determine the optimal delay for the pattern generator given the generator, display, and meter combination.

We'd like people to play with this new feature as much as possible and give us feedback on how it is working. There are only so many combinations of hardware that we can test internally.

If you do appear to run into issues, turn on the UI/AutoCal logging option, run through it again to get the relevant data in the log, and pass it along to us.
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post #2377 of 2569 Old 05-24-2014, 03:44 AM
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I tried the delay optimization on my Samsung 64F8500 (plasma) twice and it came back with a setting of 5 seconds.

The first time with an i1pro2 and the second time with an i1d3.

That seems a bit long as 1 second worked well enough.

Signal generator is an Accupel 5000.

Samsung 64F8500, Panasonic 65VT50, Oppo 95, Tivo Roamio for OTA, Dish VIP722, Marantz AV8801 preamp, Rotel Amps, Atlantic Tech 8200 speakers, Seaton Submersive HP, Calman 5, Chromapure, Accupel DVG-5000, VideoForge HDMI II, i1Display3pro, i1pro2, eecolor colorbox.
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post #2378 of 2569 Old 05-24-2014, 10:16 AM
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I really like the new feature for determining pattern delay. I have only tried it with my K10 and the Video Forge II so far. It determined 0.3 seconds was appropriate. Next I plan to check it out with the AccuPel. I think that will be around 1 second delay.
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post #2379 of 2569 Old 05-24-2014, 06:11 PM
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LG 55LHX - Radiance XE-3D - Spectracal C6, profiled off an i1Pro, and mounted on a tripod - Build #1570 - Optimization Delay = 0

Samsung UN32EH5300 - DVDO iScan Duo - Spectracal C6 profiled off an 11Pro, and mounted on a tripod - Optimization Delay = 0.4

Samsung PN64F8500 - Radiance XS-3D - Spectracal C6 profiled off an Enhanced i1Pro, tripod mounted - Optimization Delay = 1.9 - After Optimizing 2 Point and B&C - 3.05 to 3.65

LG 55LV9500 - DVDO iScan Duo - Spectracal C6 profiled off i1Pro, tripod mounted - Optimization Delay = 0.65

Coming soon - LG 42LH90, fed by iScan Duo to replace the LG 55LV9500. (Hate the calibrating Menus on the 9500 - makes it impossible to place your Meter, and calibrate at the same time. Why would LG make the adjusting Menu a BIG monstrosity?)
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post #2380 of 2569 Old 06-04-2014, 09:50 PM
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I have a question if anyone can answer. I have been thinking about this and wanted to see what members here think.

I have a JVC X35/RS46 and the Lumagen 2041. Which option is the best way to calibrate:

  1. Use the internal test patterns of the JVC to calibrate the Greyscale & Gamma multipoints adjust going through the JVC and use the 2041 test patterns for the 3D Lut CMS going through Lumagen 2041
  2. Use the Lumagen 2041 test patterns to calibrate the Greyscale & Gamma mulitpoints adjust going through JVC and 2041 test patterns for the 3D Lut CMS going through Lumagen 2041
  3. Use the internal test patterns of the JVC to calibrate the Greyscale & Gamma multi points adjust going through JVC and JVC internal test patterns for 2041 3d Lut going through 2041

Just curious to read which way members would go.

Thanks
Frank

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post #2381 of 2569 Old 06-04-2014, 10:14 PM
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Which is more accurate?
Does the same Pattern value in the JVC, give same readings as the like Pattern from the 2041?
Don't know about PJs, but usually it's recommended not to use Internal Patterns on Plasmas and LCD/LEDs.
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post #2382 of 2569 Old 06-04-2014, 10:18 PM
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What calibration system are you using? Do they have instructions? CalMAN guides you through this. Use the Lumagen's patters exclusively. Use the JVC's controls to get the gamma to a reasonably flat curve. You don't have to get obsessive about it, but the closer you get the better the calibration will go. Then use the Lumagen/calibration software to do the final adjustment.
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post #2383 of 2569 Old 06-04-2014, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

I have a question if anyone can answer. I have been thinking about this and wanted to see what members here think.

I have a JVC X35/RS46 and the Lumagen 2041. Which option is the best way to calibrate:

  1. Use the internal test patterns of the JVC to calibrate the Greyscale & Gamma multipoints adjust going through the JVC and use the 2041 test patterns for the 3D Lut CMS going through Lumagen 2041
  2. Use the Lumagen 2041 test patterns to calibrate the Greyscale & Gamma mulitpoints adjust going through JVC and 2041 test patterns for the 3D Lut CMS going through Lumagen 2041
  3. Use the internal test patterns of the JVC to calibrate the Greyscale & Gamma multi points adjust going through JVC and JVC internal test patterns for 2041 3d Lut going through 2041

Just curious to read which way members would go.

Thanks
Frank

So I assume you are doing a 3D LUT cal using Calman ?!? (u need to state exactly what your calibration approach is)

regarding patterns, you ALWAYS want pattern to go through the entire signal chain, so that the (final) calibration can accommodate for any distortion devices in the chain may introduce...

regarding your pre-3D LUT PJ setup:

* choose a wide gamut, larger than your target gamut of Rec 709 (--> the CM 3D LUT will bring that in)
* you can pre-adjust GS and Gamma in the PJ before profiling to bring the PJ in better shape and make it easier for the 3D LUT, I def recommend at least setting the white point as accurately as possible

there's no need to manually adjust the 3D LUT stored inside the Lumagen, unless you are not using CM to create a 3D LUT but then why would you post here... ? smile.gif

once CM has profiled the display, created the 3D LUT and uploaded it to the Lumagen, DO NOT ADJUST ANY VALUES (not the GS, not the Gamma, and not the 3D LUT data).... no matter what you think and what others "tell you"... it will throw off thousands of colors whether your eyes immediately notice that or not depends on the verification patterns u're viewing.... but u are messing with the offsets that the color engine calculated from lots of data...

if u don't like the 3D LUT results (as always: validate results and PJ performance with a large validation patch set), then try to improve your pre-profile setup or try other solutions (as a comparison)...

- M

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post #2384 of 2569 Old 06-04-2014, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Mike View Post

So I assume you are doing a 3D LUT cal using Calman ?!? (u need to state exactly what your calibration approach is)

regarding patterns, you ALWAYS want pattern to go through the entire signal chain, so that the (final) calibration can accommodate for any distortion devices in the chain may introduce...

regarding your pre-3D LUT PJ setup:

* choose a wide gamut, larger than your target gamut of Rec 709 (--> the CM 3D LUT will bring that in)
* you can pre-adjust GS and Gamma in the PJ before profiling to bring the PJ in better shape and make it easier for the 3D LUT, I def recommend at least setting the white point as accurately as possible

there's no need to manually adjust the 3D LUT stored inside the Lumagen, unless you are not using CM to create a 3D LUT but then why would you post here... ? smile.gif

once CM has profiled the display, created the 3D LUT and uploaded it to the Lumagen, DO NOT ADJUST ANY VALUES (not the GS, not the Gamma, and not the 3D LUT data).... no matter what you think and what others "tell you"... it will throw off thousands of colors whether your eyes immediately notice that or not depends on the verification patterns u're viewing.... but u are messing with the offsets that the color engine calculated from lots of data...

if u don't like the 3D LUT results (as always: validate results and PJ performance with a large validation patch set), then try to improve your pre-profile setup or try other solutions (as a comparison)...

- M

All good except he was asking about gamma/grayscale... not the 3D LUT.
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post #2385 of 2569 Old 06-04-2014, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by erkq View Post

All good except he was asking about gamma/grayscale... not the 3D LUT.

it's just a heads up, I've seen peeps do it and they think they improved their "calibration"... biggrin.gif
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post #2386 of 2569 Old 06-04-2014, 11:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post

Which is more accurate?
Does the same Pattern value in the JVC, give same readings as the like Pattern from the 2041?
Don't know about PJs, but usually it's recommended not to use Internal Patterns on Plasmas and LCD/LEDs.

I found that out it doesn't. Thats why I wanted to know is it best to use the Lumagen for all test patterns or the JVC.

Thank you

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post #2387 of 2569 Old 06-04-2014, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erkq View Post

. Use the Lumagen's patters exclusively.

Thank you. Thats what I needed to know. smile.gif

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post #2388 of 2569 Old 06-04-2014, 11:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Mike View Post

So I assume you are doing a 3D LUT cal using Calman ?!? (u need to state exactly what your calibration approach is)

regarding patterns, you ALWAYS want pattern to go through the entire signal chain, so that the (final) calibration can accommodate for any distortion devices in the chain may introduce...

regarding your pre-3D LUT PJ setup:

* choose a wide gamut, larger than your target gamut of Rec 709 (--> the CM 3D LUT will bring that in)
* you can pre-adjust GS and Gamma in the PJ before profiling to bring the PJ in better shape and make it easier for the 3D LUT, I def recommend at least setting the white point as accurately as possible

there's no need to manually adjust the 3D LUT stored inside the Lumagen, unless you are not using CM to create a 3D LUT but then why would you post here... ? smile.gif

once CM has profiled the display, created the 3D LUT and uploaded it to the Lumagen, DO NOT ADJUST ANY VALUES (not the GS, not the Gamma, and not the 3D LUT data).... no matter what you think and what others "tell you"... it will throw off thousands of colors whether your eyes immediately notice that or not depends on the verification patterns u're viewing.... but u are messing with the offsets that the color engine calculated from lots of data...

if u don't like the 3D LUT results (as always: validate results and PJ performance with a large validation patch set), then try to improve your pre-profile setup or try other solutions (as a comparison)...

- M

Thanks for the write up M

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post #2389 of 2569 Old 06-04-2014, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Mike View Post

it's just a heads up, I've seen peeps do it and they think they improved their "calibration"... biggrin.gif

Any tip is great I very much appreciate it. Not that I adjust any values after the calibration is uploaded and done. I can't believe members actually do that.

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post #2390 of 2569 Old 06-05-2014, 12:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

I have a question if anyone can answer. I have been thinking about this and wanted to see what members here think.

I have a JVC X35/RS46 and the Lumagen 2041. Which option is the best way to calibrate:

  1. Use the internal test patterns of the JVC to calibrate the Greyscale & Gamma multipoints adjust going through the JVC and use the 2041 test patterns for the 3D Lut CMS going through Lumagen 2041
  2. Use the Lumagen 2041 test patterns to calibrate the Greyscale & Gamma mulitpoints adjust going through JVC and 2041 test patterns for the 3D Lut CMS going through Lumagen 2041
  3. Use the internal test patterns of the JVC to calibrate the Greyscale & Gamma multi points adjust going through JVC and JVC internal test patterns for 2041 3d Lut going through 2041

Just curious to read which way members would go.

Thanks
Frank

Hello Frank.

When I used CM and the 2041, I would do my pre calibration settings including grayscale using the internal setting of my VT60. The reason why is because I didn't like what CM was doing to Green and the Gamma when doing auto cal for the grayscale.
In any case I would use the "reference" patterns from your 2041 for all of what you are doing in your calibration and however you are doing it as long as the 2041 remains in your video chain. As you know in CM there is a little tick box in the source menu when using the 2041 as a pattern generator.
So my guess it would be up to you to determine how your display reacts to how CM set's your grayscale. I would never use the internal settings in my 2041 to adjust my grayscale or CMS.

ss
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post #2391 of 2569 Old 06-05-2014, 01:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Hello Frank.

When I used CM and the 2041, I would do my pre calibration settings including grayscale using the internal setting of my VT60. The reason why is because I didn't like what CM was doing to Green and the Gamma when doing auto cal for the grayscale.
In any case I would use the "reference" patterns from your 2041 for all of what you are doing in your calibration and however you are doing it as long as the 2041 remains in your video chain. As you know in CM there is a little tick box in the source menu when using the 2041 as a pattern generator.
So my guess it would be up to you to determine how your display reacts to how CM set's your grayscale. I would never use the internal settings in my 2041 to adjust my grayscale or CMS.

ss

Hey ss thanks for your reply. The 2041 is definitely in the video chain. Don't you use the 3D lut in the Lumagen?

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post #2392 of 2569 Old 06-05-2014, 02:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

Hey ss thanks for your reply. The 2041 is definitely in the video chain. Don't you use the 3D lut in the Lumagen?

I did once or twice using my method and CM's complete AutoCal. I also used LS doing a large profile and having it convert it into a LUT to input into the 2041.
I was pleased with the results, but using eecolor box and a large profile/LUT gives a clearer and more depth in the picture, along with subtle added shades of color.

ss
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post #2393 of 2569 Old 06-05-2014, 07:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

I did once or twice using my method and CM's complete AutoCal. I also used LS doing a large profile and having it convert it into a LUT to input into the 2041.
I was pleased with the results, but using eecolor box and a large profile/LUT gives a clearer and more depth in the picture, along with subtle added shades of color.

ss

Hey ss I've just had a look at eecolor box which is amazing on what it can do, can calman 5 Enthusiast utilise the whole 65 point 3d lut and how is the handshake issue on these units ?

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Have found I'm getting a better PQ by first calibrating the Service Menu White Balances, to give me an On Spec 2 and 10 Point 100%. and 2 Point 30% by adjusting the Gains and Offsets. On the LGs, have been finding the Service Menu Offsets, don't appear to affect anything except the SM WB Offset screen? Took a regular scan, bumped the SM WB Offset Blue by 10 Clicks, rescanned the 2 and 10 Points - Nothing! Checked CMS - no change there either. So just calibrated the SM WB Offsets to Spec and left it there. Definitely the SM WB Gains affected 100%. The AutoCal then seemed faster, more accurate, and gave a very pleasing resulting PQ. Have now just about done all the TVs in the house with this method, and some of the older sets, have never looked this good. 5 out of the 6 done this way in the last 2 weeks - 1 more to do tonight. This includes 2 32" Samsung LCD/LEDs, 1 42" LG 42LH90, 1 55" LG 55LV9500, 1 55" LG 55LHX (1 Left to do), and the Samsung 64" Plasma PN64F8500.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

Hey ss I've just had a look at eecolor box which is amazing on what it can do, can calman 5 Enthusiast utilise the whole 65 point 3d lut and how is the handshake issue on these units ?

eeColor is the best LUT box out there and can store six 65^3 LUTs... fantastic to create Rec 709 w/ Gamma 2.2/2.3/2.4/BT.1886/etc... I have multiple boxes here in use, no handshake issues...

- M

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New Calman Version 5.3.5 RC3 Build #1578

http://color.spectracal.com/downloads/

Fixed Issues

June 5, 2014

Further refined the Pattern Delay Optimization. This should help improve the results by removing luminance from the calculations.
Resolved an issue with the i1Pro and i1Pro 2 that would cause CalMAN to be unable to communicate with the meter if CalMAN attempted to connect to it a second time
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post #2397 of 2569 Old 06-06-2014, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

Hey ss I've just had a look at eecolor box which is amazing on what it can do, can calman 5 Enthusiast utilise the whole 65 point 3d lut and how is the handshake issue on these units ?

Hi Franin.

Just to add to Mike's reply, CM 5 will use the whole 65^3 LUT. Doesn't matter what size patch set you use, when written to eecolor the LUT is installed as 65^3, file size is 14.4 MB.
CM is all auto when it writes the LUT to eecolor so there is nothing you do except in the display drop down box click on eecolor, CM will do the rest. Very easy. smile.gif
All you do when you get a eecolor is install there software TruVue into eecolor

On a side note eecolor will not pass through 3D movies and if you use one HDMI cable for both video and audio you may want to check what types of audio eecolor willl pass through. Also no 4K support.

ss
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post #2398 of 2569 Old 06-06-2014, 03:08 PM
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anyone got ant problems with this release such as crashes?

anyone got the instalation file for RC1
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post #2399 of 2569 Old 06-06-2014, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACappo View Post

anyone got ant problems with this release such as crashes?

anyone got the instalation file for RC1

It craches here too during the starting up while it's loading the last workflow.

About CalMAN 5 Home Theater 5.3.5.1563 RC1, I have it to my disk backup and I have just uploaded for you, check your PM. wink.gif

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS + CalMAN ColorChecker
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, CalPC, ControlCAL
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
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post #2400 of 2569 Old 06-06-2014, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

It craches here too during the starting up while it's loading the last workflow.

About CalMAN 5 Home Theater 5.3.5.1563 RC1, I have it to my disk backup and I have just uploaded for you, check your PM. wink.gif

I don't see any sign of formal software testing... use cases, boundary conditions, regression analysis... they seem to throw it out here and pray. I like the product very much, but the product lifecycle could use some updating as far as I can see. There is an inordinate number of obvious bugs we have to deal with on each new release.
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