CalMan 5 Release Notes and Discussion - Page 87 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 18Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #2581 of 2601 Old 12-19-2014, 11:00 AM
AVS Special Member
 
sotti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 6,644
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 48 Post(s)
Liked: 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjschaff View Post
Any guidance when using a Lumagen Radiance with CalMan?
We do have a similiar document for the radiance: http://www.spectracal.com/Documents/...QuickStart.pdf

I would recommend basically doing a grayscale calibration on the TV first to get it as close as possible. Put the gamut into widest setting you have on the TV, then basically it's just run grayscale autocal, run cube autocal. Enjoy a calibrated display.

Joel Barsotti
SpectraCal
CalMAN Lead Developer
sotti is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2582 of 2601 Old 12-19-2014, 11:38 AM
Senior Member
 
ezrangel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 223
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 14
One more thing: I use a darbee between the output of my Marantz 8801 and the JVC. Should keep it there for calibration?
well, if I use the JVC internal patterns I guess it doesnt matter, right?

Sorry for bad english...
ezrangel is online now  
post #2583 of 2601 Old 12-19-2014, 12:07 PM
AVS Special Member
 
sotti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 6,644
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 48 Post(s)
Liked: 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by ezrangel View Post
One more thing: I use a darbee between the output of my Marantz 8801 and the JVC. Should keep it there for calibration?
well, if I use the JVC internal patterns I guess it doesnt matter, right?
If you are using the internal patterns it won't matter at all.

Joel Barsotti
SpectraCal
CalMAN Lead Developer
sotti is offline  
post #2584 of 2601 Old 12-19-2014, 09:51 PM
Advanced Member
 
seanbryan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Knowhere
Posts: 582
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Liked: 16
I'd like to try some custom gamma curves, but I don't know how to go about setting that up.

Also, I just tried the "sliding gamma" but it just calibrated to a flat 2.4. I probably didn't have it set up right.

Can anyone offer some guidance on how to set it to run custom gammas and/or how to set the sliding gamma curve?
seanbryan is online now  
post #2585 of 2601 Old 12-21-2014, 03:40 AM
Member
 
Andrei_VVB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 194
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Liked: 16
A few questions.
Does Calman Enthusiasts alter 2pWB on a vt60 on autocal mode? If so how?Only altered big in 10p wb.
Also, how come if ITU:BT1886 with an offset black level of 0,0006 ftl (o.oo2cd) is set in options ,
it autocalibrates at 2.2?
I had a chance to play with this version briefly so maybe the lack of time spent with it might be the issue here.
Thank you.
Andrei_VVB is online now  
post #2586 of 2601 Old 12-21-2014, 04:19 AM
Member
 
Andrei_VVB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 194
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Liked: 16
LE: nevermind I found the issue. Was using Enthousiast Advanced workflow that was directly 10p adjustements and not starting with 2p first. Still, the question about gamma remains. Why didn't Calman calibrated at itu with black level compensation?
Andrei_VVB is online now  
post #2587 of 2601 Old 12-21-2014, 10:15 AM
Senior Member
 
sjschaff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 399
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post
We do have a similiar document for the radiance: http://www.spectracal.com/Documents/...QuickStart.pdf

I would recommend basically doing a grayscale calibration on the TV first to get it as close as possible. Put the gamut into widest setting you have on the TV, then basically it's just run grayscale autocal, run cube autocal. Enjoy a calibrated display.
Thanks for pointing this out. One thing I'm not clear on, but probably I need to fish through the Lumagen manual, is the part about "Radiance CMS Luminance Level Setup" that refers to adjusting the White Level SubR/B/G levels. Not clear in the document why this is needed. And I've not found anything in the Lumagen docs that describe this process.

Can you elaborate a bit?

Steve Schaffer
sjschaff is offline  
post #2588 of 2601 Old 12-21-2014, 10:56 AM
AVS Special Member
 
sotti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 6,644
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 48 Post(s)
Liked: 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjschaff View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post
We do have a similiar document for the radiance: http://www.spectracal.com/Documents/...QuickStart.pdf

I would recommend basically doing a grayscale calibration on the TV first to get it as close as possible. Put the gamut into widest setting you have on the TV, then basically it's just run grayscale autocal, run cube autocal. Enjoy a calibrated display.
Thanks for pointing this out. One thing I'm not clear on, but probably I need to fish through the Lumagen manual, is the part about "Radiance CMS Luminance Level Setup" that refers to adjusting the White Level SubR/B/G levels. Not clear in the document why this is needed. And I've not found anything in the Lumagen docs that describe this process.

Can you elaborate a bit?
I think that might be a cut and paste error from the cms based instructions.
sotti is offline  
post #2589 of 2601 Old 12-21-2014, 01:37 PM
Senior Member
 
ezrangel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 223
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Any Christmas sale from Spectracal?

Sorry for bad english...
ezrangel is online now  
post #2590 of 2601 Old 12-21-2014, 04:53 PM
AVS Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 2,446
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 133 Post(s)
Liked: 519
Quote:
Originally Posted by ezrangel View Post
Any Christmas sale from Spectracal?
Hi, I saw about this offer: 25% Off Upgrades to CalMAN Enthusiast until the end of December.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS + CalMAN ColorChecker
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, CalPC, ControlCAL
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is offline  
post #2591 of 2601 Old 12-22-2014, 04:52 AM
Senior Member
 
ezrangel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 223
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi, I saw about this offer: 25% Off Upgrades to CalMAN Enthusiast until the end of December.
Hi, thanks, that seems a great offer for hose who want/need the Enthusiast version. But it is still cheaper to buy the control version.

Sorry for bad english...
ezrangel is online now  
post #2592 of 2601 Old 12-22-2014, 12:19 PM
Senior Member
 
sjschaff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 399
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post
I think that might be a cut and paste error from the cms based instructions.
Thanks. I'd wondered if this might be something about dealing with projectors which have initial greyscale settings which are way out of line and need "reeling in" on these parameters. Since I have an Enthusiast license I don't see any SI Advanced option as a workflow or part of any. I figured it might exist in the HT Advanced workflow, but no luck. So, I guess I shouldn't be concerned with using the advanced workflow at all.

Anyway, I get confused when trying to determine what "soup to nuts" procedure will get me to end of job. At present, calibrating my i1OEM to the ColorMunki Photo meter and then using the updated meter profile with the Color Cube workflow are my steps (assuming the projector's Black Level and Contrast have been set via the projector's controls with the Lumagen reference test patterns).

If I'm missing something, please let me know.

Steve Schaffer
sjschaff is offline  
post #2593 of 2601 Old 12-23-2014, 08:23 AM
Member
 
RajinderGill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjschaff View Post
Thanks. I'd wondered if this might be something about dealing with projectors which have initial greyscale settings which are way out of line and need "reeling in" on these parameters. Since I have an Enthusiast license I don't see any SI Advanced option as a workflow or part of any. I figured it might exist in the HT Advanced workflow, but no luck. So, I guess I shouldn't be concerned with using the advanced workflow at all.

Anyway, I get confused when trying to determine what "soup to nuts" procedure will get me to end of job. At present, calibrating my i1OEM to the ColorMunki Photo meter and then using the updated meter profile with the Color Cube workflow are my steps (assuming the projector's Black Level and Contrast have been set via the projector's controls with the Lumagen reference test patterns).

If I'm missing something, please let me know.
Which Projector do you have? Depending on the model, how much pre-adjustment you should do on the projector side can vary. Most newer models are okay, but some of the older ones (like the JVC-DLA990 I have) are non-linear so require a gentle touch on CMS I am finding.
RajinderGill is offline  
post #2594 of 2601 Old 12-23-2014, 12:13 PM
Senior Member
 
sjschaff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 399
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by RajinderGill View Post
Which Projector do you have? Depending on the model, how much pre-adjustment you should do on the projector side can vary. Most newer models are okay, but some of the older ones (like the JVC-DLA990 I have) are non-linear so require a gentle touch on CMS I am finding.
Lately I've had to rely on my backup Epson 1080 UB while my JVC RS35/990 is having it's engine replaced (don't ask). I gather what you're suggesting is that I would need to use CalMAN to first get the primaries and secondaries closer to standard via say the HT Advanced calibration workflow or something else before launching the Color Cube workflow. Or maybe use the CMS Adjust of the HT Advanced calibration and choose each primary and secondary and find the appropriate Radiance controls to bring down the DeltaL as much as possible. If that's the case, how do I find these on my Radiance? Or do I use the Reference test patterns in the Radiance in conjunction with the CalMAN HT Advanced CMS Adjust while manipulating the Epson or JVC settings for the various luminance levels? Again, I'm not sure where these reside in the associated projectors, though I'm pretty sure they exist.

As you can tell, I'm trying to travel this road without taking any wrong turns, let alone screwing up the sequence.

Steve Schaffer
sjschaff is offline  
post #2595 of 2601 Old 12-23-2014, 02:26 PM
Member
 
RajinderGill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 12
I'd set the basics such as white point and select the nearest gamma. Then, depending on how far things are off I'd work on correcting a bit via the projector if it is possible without artifacts - you can use the Spears and Munsil disc or Ted's to evaluate for anomalies in the ramps such as banding. I dont have a Lumagen, just an EEcolor box so I don't know about the Lumagen controls. Typically the advice i see is to correct whatever is possible at the projector side, then use external CMS/greyscale to sort the rest as best as possible before performing a 3D Lut calibration. The further things are off before you start the LUT, the more patches are needed to get lower DE average .

I have an DLA-HD990 as well. It has taken me a few days to figure out how to get round some of its CMS issues. Have found a steady medium I am working on right now, which is to boost the color setting so that the 10-75% zone does not end up being too non-linear in saturation when making CMS changes. Without this, calibrating for either 75 or 100% stimulus/saturation results in errors up and down the scale. Same goes for blue and Magenta. The side effect of the color setting boost is that yellows end up over saturated but the DEs are close to 3 and the luminance is good so I can live with that. There are also some issues with the color setting that can result in artifacting in certain reds - there are zones of the color setting scale that do this for some reason. It's not the easiest projector to calibrate - even tho it can drive beyond the 709 colorspace hard, the entire gamut is pulled towards green. One has to work on getting hues etc as close as possible for the entire scale before creating a 3D LUT. Without doing that first, the resulting LUT can introduce more errors than it corrects (even with 4500 patches).
ConnecTEDDD likes this.
RajinderGill is offline  
post #2596 of 2601 Old Yesterday, 07:34 AM
Newbie
 
MaceFremonti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Simple question...does Calman 5 Basic provide measurement of ftL?
MaceFremonti is offline  
post #2597 of 2601 Old Yesterday, 02:20 PM
AVS Special Member
 
p5browne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sudbury, Ontario, CANADA
Posts: 4,114
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 232 Post(s)
Liked: 228
New 5.4.0a Build # 1831 now available for download:

http://calman.spectracal.com/downloads.html
p5browne is offline  
post #2598 of 2601 Old Yesterday, 03:27 PM
AVS Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 2,446
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 133 Post(s)
Liked: 519
Quote:
Originally Posted by RajinderGill View Post
I'd set the basics such as white point and select the nearest gamma. Then, depending on how far things are off I'd work on correcting a bit via the projector if it is possible without artifacts - you can use the Spears and Munsil disc or Ted's to evaluate for anomalies in the ramps such as banding.
Correctly said, this is a very important step that a lot of DIY/ calibration enthousiasts are ignoring and based only to the fancy charts/de reports of limited color points to evaluate the post calibration of a display.

Internal Display Controls that are coming with each display/projector are not always working all the times, some controls are very sensitive and they have a safe range of corrections you can apply (for example +-2) that are not introducing problems to the image, or a combination of tweaking of some specific controls can degrade the final result.

This is something that the 21-Point Grayscale or 5-Point Saturation or Color Checker reports can't display to the user, that's why it
s important to use some Color Reproduction Patterns after the end of the Calibration and try to find by viewing them with our eyes for problems: Look for smooth color graduations, distortions, discoloration, clipping, banding, posterization, crushed shadow details, raised black levels.... something that the measurements/pretty calibration dE reports can't show.

This is the reason I have add over 150 Color Reproduction Patterns to my Calibration Disk, to help checking the display's controls / various mode settings before calibrating to find their safe working range, detect problems to various setting etc.

Pro calibrators since are more experienced from calibrating of a long number of displays, they know from experience of which controls of a display are not introducing problems or if they are broken and you have to leave them untouched to prevent new problems, it's easier for them to identify that types of problems.


WiFi-Spy, chunon and Manni01 like this.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS + CalMAN ColorChecker
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, CalPC, ControlCAL
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is offline  
post #2599 of 2601 Old Today, 02:54 AM
Member
 
RajinderGill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Agreed. The patterns in your discs are really good. Bitter sweet though as you get to see just how broken a display really is! lol
ConnecTEDDD likes this.
RajinderGill is offline  
post #2600 of 2601 Old Today, 08:39 AM
AVS Special Member
 
lovingdvd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 9,104
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 222 Post(s)
Liked: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post
New 5.4.0a Build # 1831 now available for download:

http://calman.spectracal.com/downloads.html
The release notes don't mention what's new in this "a" build. Anyone know?
lovingdvd is online now  
post #2601 of 2601 Old Today, 08:59 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Manni01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,651
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 317 Post(s)
Liked: 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
The release notes don't mention what's new in this "a" build. Anyone know?

Hi Ric,


Partial fix for the profiling crash issue.


Solves it for some, not for others.

Maybe other things, but that's the one I'm aware of.
Manni01 is online now  
Reply Display Calibration

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off