Buy a new colorimeter or buy a used i1 Pro - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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Old 10-09-2012, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daMaster View Post

So if I get an i1Pro I should use that first to create a correction matrix for my Display Lt (on the actual set being calibrated), then use the i1Pro for all readings above 30% gray and for CMS calibration. If lower than 30% needs to be measured then use the Display Lt.

No need. Use the profiled colorimeter for everything.

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Old 10-09-2012, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daMaster View Post

So if I get an i1Pro I should use that first to create a correction matrix for my Display Lt (on the actual set being calibrated), then use the i1Pro for all readings above 30% gray and for CMS calibration. If lower than 30% needs to be measured then use the Display Lt.

Luminance of two meters will never match. take a reading of 100% White using each meter, you will see a difference at luminance of about 3-5% between meters.

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Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
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Old 10-09-2012, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daMaster View Post

So if I get an i1Pro I should use that first to create a correction matrix for my Display Lt (on the actual set being calibrated), then use the i1Pro for all readings above 30% gray and for CMS calibration. If lower than 30% needs to be measured then use the Display Lt.

No, what I'm saying is that in my case I don't need to use my C6 at all since the i1Pro alone lets me calibrate the TV fully given it only has 2-pt grayscale and gamma presets (and the grayscale low end controls are not even needed for the two sets mentioned). If you need to be able to accurately measure below 20% to 30% stim for grayscale/gamma, then use the profiled colorimeter for everything (or everything but gamut if you want to use the spectro directly for gamut work).

My point here is that if you don't need to measure below 1 fL or so, you can use the i1Pro directly for the whole calibration. If you do need to measure below that threshold, using a profiled colorimeter for everything is the simplest option (and if you still want to do gamut with the spectro you can... though this is optional).
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Old 10-09-2012, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

Luminance of two meters will never match. take a reading of 100% White using each meter, you will see a difference at luminance of about 3-5% between meters.

not true; I measured the same peak white to the nearest fL (difference of less than 0.5 fL between the two for 100% white) for my Samsung LED-LCD with both a i1Pro and an unprofiled C6 colorimeter (and the display had warmed up for over an hour and both meters were in contact mode, dead center one at a time)
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Old 10-09-2012, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

not true; I measured the same peak white to the nearest fL (difference of less than 0.5 fL between the two for 100% white) for my Samsung LED-LCD with both a i1Pro and an unprofiled C6 colorimeter (and the display had warmed up for over an hour and both meters were in contact mode, dead center one at a time)

Not true? I have measured over 200 different TV models, i'm always betting this difference. I'm talking about profiled Colorimeter vs. Spectro. Always measuring the exact same pixels with matched FOV.

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Old 10-10-2012, 07:17 AM
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ok, not necessarily true... my C6 and i1Pro rev D measure very, very closely

the following is just a guess, but maybe the reason you see a 3-5% difference is due to the two meters being slightly different distances from the screen for matching FOV (I just use both in contact mode in the dead center of the screen, no FOV matching)
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:24 AM
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The highest end Photo Research and Konica Minolta won't match on the same display, who/which is right? wink.gif

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Old 10-10-2012, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

The highest end Photo Research and Konica Minolta won't match on the same display, who/which is right? wink.gif

Exactly! 2 Meters of the same type will not match their luminance also.

Here is an quick example measuring 2 LED-TV's using X-Rite i1PRO2 (Brand New) & X-Rite i1PRO1 (2 Months after receiving it from Re-Calibration @ X-Rite's Heaquarters Facilities (Switzerland).

Each meter was mounted onscreen during each measurement, dead center, measuring the exact same pixels. FOV of meters are the same.

I used a special chapter of Ted's Calibration Blu-Ray Disk which the WRGBCMY patterns are displayed for 10 sec and they changed to the next one automatically, these is a audio tone also after 5 sec. to remind you to click 'Meter Measurement', so all readings are strictly taken the exact time and after equal time or displaying each pattern.





The difference between the 2 meters is about 7% of more light reading 100% White Pattern

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Old 10-10-2012, 03:59 PM
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Well, I think the correct answer is that two meters can read the same Y value for peak white in some cases (like on my Samsung LED-LCD with i1Pro1 and C6). However, they can also read 3-5% different or more in some other cases. So, to say two meters will never match is equally wrong as saying they always will. After all, they do match in my case. wink.gif
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Old 10-10-2012, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

Well, I think the correct answer is that two meters can read the same Y value for peak white in some cases (like on my Samsung LED-LCD with i1Pro1 and C6). However, they can also read 3-5% different or more in some other cases. So, to say two meters will never match is equally wrong as saying they always will. After all, they do match in my case. wink.gif

Another Quick Example of Michael Chen's Measurement:
http://www.tlvexp.ca/2012/04/do-calibration-tables-really-work-for-tri-stim-devices/

Panasonic LCD Calibration with JETI Spectro -> 100% White Measured: 101.15cd/m2
Panasonic LCD Calibration with C6 Profiled from JETI -> 100% White Measured: 98.30 cd/m2

3% Difference in Luminance for JETI.

Panasonic LCD Calibration with C6 Table -> 100% White Measured: 94.18 cd/m2

8% Difference in Luminance for JETI.

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S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, CalPC, ControlCAL
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
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Old 10-10-2012, 05:41 PM
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Xrite state inter unit deviance of Avg dE94 0.4, max 1.0
Accuracy of +/-0.002 at 5000k 80cd/m^2
Note that the peak is 1.0, this means there can be dE94 2.0 between two units.

Now if we note that the high end spectros are typically 2% of reference, the i1pro is still unknown because accuracy as % is not listed in reference notation.we could argue that the i1pro could be 4% at best.

Using these figures as an example means at max you could see 6% difference with a high end spectro and 8% with another i1pro. You can also measure the same, because this is the nature of unit to unit variation and why high end spectros cost 10x~30x as much to be within 2% of reference.

I1pro's are still fantastic hit power for buck, I'd still buy one over a colourmeter dispite the low end limitations.

Turbe, the high end spectros are more right than i1pros, but within 2% of what is right. They also return repeatable values.
Don't forget uniformity variance of displays and source, and repeatability of the display and source.

Nothing is perfect. Just pretty darn close.

just had a closer look at Teds data, note the deviance of 0.002. So within normal spec.

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Old 10-10-2012, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

Another Quick Example of Michael Chen's Measurement:
http://www.tlvexp.ca/2012/04/do-calibration-tables-really-work-for-tri-stim-devices/
Panasonic LCD Calibration with JETI Spectro -> 100% White Measured: 101.15cd/m2
Panasonic LCD Calibration with C6 Profiled from JETI -> 100% White Measured: 98.30 cd/m2
3% Difference in Luminance for JETI.
Panasonic LCD Calibration with C6 Table -> 100% White Measured: 94.18 cd/m2
8% Difference in Luminance for JETI.

http://www.tlvexp.ca/2012/04/do-calibration-tables-really-work-for-tri-stim-devices/#comment-20
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Old 04-16-2013, 12:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Okay, I finally bought the i1Pro rev D on eBay. I finally got it because my i1LT was giving me reddish calibration at 6500K. It just seemed off. After comparing my i1Pro against the LT, it became apparent that my i1LT was quite a bit off, by nearly 300K. Primaries were off too.

Now 6500K calibrated with i1Pro looks neutral instead of a reddish tint with the LT.

I also experimented with applying a XYZ correction matrix on the LT using i1Pro as reference. Turns out the LT is still fairly consistent with i1Pro once the correction matrix is applied.

Going forward, I plan to use i1Pro only to create correction matrix for my i1LT. The i1LT is much faster at reading than the i1Pro and it's fairly consistent after the correction matrix is applied. The rest of the calibration will be carried out with the i1LT.

It's clear to me now that a consumer colorimeter alone is pretty useless. You may get a consistent greyscale, but the wrong one. However, if you have a reference spectro to profile against your colorimeter, then it's very useful.
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Old 04-16-2013, 08:38 AM
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It's clear to me now that a consumer colorimeter alone is pretty useless. You may get a consistent greyscale, but the wrong one. However, if you have a reference spectro to profile against your colorimeter, then it's very useful.

LL

it's getting easier each year to convince users of the realities in the field (at home) and the more that get a spectro, the louder the voice...

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Old 04-16-2013, 08:51 AM
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LL

it's getting easier each year to convince users of the realities in the field (at home) and the more that get a spectro, the louder the voice...
+1 smile.gifwink.gif
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Old 04-16-2013, 02:52 PM
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Yeah, dispite all the nah sayers about i1pros low end performance no one ever regrets owning one. Funny that don't ya think.

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Old 04-17-2013, 10:34 PM
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When buying a used i1 (assuming rev. d), is there anything else that is essential that comes with it (for use in calibration for video)? I see some with come little plastic pieces, some have some kind of holder the meter sits in...?

Thanks,
B.
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Old 04-18-2013, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B View Post

When buying a used i1 (assuming rev. d), is there anything else that is essential that comes with it (for use in calibration for video)? I see some with come little plastic pieces, some have some kind of holder the meter sits in...?

Thanks,
B.

Check these two posts:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1419870/used-equipment-and-software-support#post_22211202

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1419870/used-equipment-and-software-support#post_22213196


.

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Old 04-18-2013, 02:40 PM
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Thanks a bunch...exactly what I needed to see. The ones I am looking at both have the base and it looks like one has the ambient light piece. We'll see if they end up at a reasonable price ~$250.

B.

One more question...is the button on the side important? I'm used to clicking in the software to take measures...
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Old 04-18-2013, 02:59 PM
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some apps allow you to assign the button for different tasks.

I'd say you want the button to work and pass the xrite diagnostics.

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