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post #1 of 50 Old 08-30-2012, 12:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi,

I currently own a i1 Display LT (same hardware as Display2), and I'm uncertain of its accuracy. Should I purchase a new colorimeter such as Display3 or get a used i1Pro? I understand that a colorimeter will drift over time and needs to be profiled against a spectroradiometer such as the i1Pro. Can someone tell me if a i1Pro drifts overtime? Also, are there certain revisions or models I should watch for?

Thanks
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post #2 of 50 Old 08-30-2012, 12:54 PM
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I suggest a i1Pro and used is fine.... I do recommend the Rev D. version

Also, see:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1373556/i1-pro-or-d3-if-you-could-only-have-one-meter
http://www.tlvexp.ca/2012/04/do-calibration-tables-really-work-for-tri-stim-devices/

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post #3 of 50 Old 08-30-2012, 12:56 PM
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i1 Pro's are great, they don't drift much if at all. As turbe mentioned the rev-D's are the ones to get.

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post #4 of 50 Old 08-30-2012, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kanedo View Post

Hi,
I currently own a i1 Display LT (same hardware as Display2), and I'm uncertain of its accuracy. Should I purchase a new colorimeter such as Display3 or get a used i1Pro? I understand that a colorimeter will drift over time and needs to be profiled against a spectroradiometer such as the i1Pro. Can someone tell me if a i1Pro drifts overtime? Also, are there certain revisions or models I should watch for?
Thanks

get the i1Pro (rev D) and keep your D2... until you get a spectro, spending hundreds on another colorimeter is not a good idea

most who have owned a i1Pro here did not experience any significant/measurable drift and those who send it in for re-certification every 1-2 years almost always have it within spec... really the only thing that can cause it to go bad is dropping it hard (which will cause it to fail i1 diagnostics and stop working altogether)


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post #5 of 50 Old 08-30-2012, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

I suggest a i1Pro and used is fine.... I do recommend the Rev D. version
Also, see:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1373556/i1-pro-or-d3-if-you-could-only-have-one-meter
http://www.tlvexp.ca/2012/04/do-calibration-tables-really-work-for-tri-stim-devices/

my rev D is quite fast with single sample readings from 20% to 100% or so


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post #6 of 50 Old 08-30-2012, 01:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Let's say I do get a Rev D i1Pro and use it to create offset matrix for my DisplayLT. Do I create a different matrix every time I calibrate a new TV?
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post #7 of 50 Old 08-30-2012, 01:09 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm seeing some EFI ES-1000 on eBay that says UV Cut? Is that what I want?
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post #8 of 50 Old 08-30-2012, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kanedo View Post

I'm seeing some EFI ES-1000 on eBay that says UV Cut? Is that what I want?

That's what I bought. I love it. You create an offset matrix for each display.

Uncut refers to reflective measurements of paper that ignore ultraviolet range. It has no bearing on display calibration. Newer i1pro just made the same corrections but via software instead. Again, it's only for reflective measurements like measuring printer output.
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post #9 of 50 Old 08-30-2012, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by kanedo View Post

Let's say I do get a Rev D i1Pro and use it to create offset matrix for my DisplayLT. Do I create a different matrix every time I calibrate a new TV?

Yes, that's the main purpose of having a spectro... that and for doing gamut/CMS.


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post #10 of 50 Old 08-30-2012, 01:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

Yes, that's the main purpose of having a spectro... that and for doing gamut/CMS.

I forgot to mention earlier, but I also have an old Spyder2. It's accuracy is pretty off. So let's say I get the i1Pro and I give this Spyder2 to a friend. What all do I need to profile prior giving it away?
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post #11 of 50 Old 08-30-2012, 01:35 PM
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Profile it on his display.

Profile it to your display may be better than nothing.
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post #12 of 50 Old 08-30-2012, 01:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Okay, thanks. You guy have convinced me to invest in a Rev D i1Pro. Anyone have a suggestion to a reasonable price to pay for a used one? Or perhaps a good deal on a new one?
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post #13 of 50 Old 08-30-2012, 02:01 PM
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I think you can get them new for $800 at newegg.

I got mine used for about $200 from eBay.

Mine is the efi es1000 which sometimes goes silly cheap on eBay.

Be sure to get rev d to assure a newer meter.
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post #14 of 50 Old 08-30-2012, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

my rev D is quite fast with single sample readings from 20% to 100% or so

Yes, I know some people complain that it's slow, I don't and find the i1Pros performance is good for calibrations, both by Enthusiasts and Professionals...

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post #15 of 50 Old 08-30-2012, 09:07 PM
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Is the new i1pro2 faster and more accurate at the low end compared to the i1pro rev.D? How about compared to the i1D3 Pro?


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post #16 of 50 Old 08-31-2012, 02:00 AM - Thread Starter
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What about the Colormunki Spectro?
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post #17 of 50 Old 08-31-2012, 03:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kanedo View Post

What about the Colormunki Spectro?

I was very interested in the colormunki Specto for a long time because of the $400 price.

But,... It doesn't work with most programs (except Calman) and it doesn't have the reputation i1 pro has.

When I found used i1 for $200, that changed things.biggrin.gif
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post #18 of 50 Old 08-31-2012, 05:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

my rev D is quite fast with single sample readings from 20% to 100% or so

I thought the i1pro was only really accurate to 30 IRE.....with correct gamma.

I'd like to find that it's accurate to 20 IRE (makes life simplier) but is it?

Something to think about is if what you're seeing at 20% might be with a display that has elevated blacks or gamma is off. Then it may be a true 30 ire.

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post #19 of 50 Old 08-31-2012, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

I thought the i1pro was only really accurate to 30 IRE.....with correct gamma.
I'd like to find that it's accurate to 20 IRE (makes life simplier) but is it?
Something to think about is if what you're seeing at 20% might be with a display that has elevated blacks or gamma is off. Then it may be a true 30 ire.

Shouldn't the display type factor into those types of questions?

My plasma puts out 10x or more light than my projector. Looking at an image doesn't seem much different but there is a large space between the light output at 20IRE for the different types.

I have an old Display2 and I profiled that using my i1pro and just the other day I went through to re-profile it because I had not calibrated since before the summer and it's exactly how it was before. In other words,.. it need correction but it's stable.

I suppose a Display2 or the colormunki pod meter (basically a display2 but with a different eprom) should be under $50 used.

I enjoy the i1 pro but would rather use the display2 for any gamma or grey scale adjustments.


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post #20 of 50 Old 08-31-2012, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

I thought the i1pro was only really accurate to 30 IRE.....with correct gamma.
I'd like to find that it's accurate to 20 IRE (makes life simplier) but is it?
Something to think about is if what you're seeing at 20% might be with a display that has elevated blacks or gamma is off. Then it may be a true 30 ire.

IRE is sort of an outdated term, it refers to an analog voltage level. Percentage is the newer, more correct term.

But it's really not about percentage at all, it's about total amount of light.
There isn't a point where it falls off sharply, it's accuracy just starts to decline.

30% stim = about 7% total light output.
On a bright LCD putting out 200cd/m (70fl), that 30% is still 14cd/m
On a projector putting out 35cd/m (11fl), that 30% is now only 2.5 cd/m

So it's accuracy at lower end of a grayscale run is highly dependent on the total light output of the display.

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post #21 of 50 Old 08-31-2012, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kanedo View Post

What about the Colormunki Spectro?

It's my #2 (behind the i1Pro Series) for Enthusiast meter recommendations (and depending on software requirements, CalMAN and ColorHCFR v3 only).

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post #22 of 50 Old 08-31-2012, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

I thought the i1pro was only really accurate to 30 IRE.....with correct gamma.
I'd like to find that it's accurate to 20 IRE (makes life simplier) but is it?
Something to think about is if what you're seeing at 20% might be with a display that has elevated blacks or gamma is off. Then it may be a true 30 ire.

you're absolutely correct, the 20% readings fluctuate far too much without the LLH enabled (with 5 samples or more)... but it does read a single sample of 20% fast and since CalManv4 doesn't let you select 8-pt grayscale (30% to 100% in 10% increments), I set it to 9-pt when reading grayscale directly with the i1Pro

so it reads 20% to 100% fast, but readings below 30% are probably best discarded (and set with a profiled colorimeter like my C6)

*this probably applies when peak white is about 30-40 fL with a 2.2 to 2.4 power law gamma


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post #23 of 50 Old 08-31-2012, 11:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Does anyone know if the Colormunki Display (CMUNDIS) has the same hardware as the i1 Display Pro (EODIS3)? From the product info, it sounds like CMUNDIS is slower. Is this a limitation imposed by the software or is this a limitation of the hardware itself? I guess what I'm really asking is whether CMUNDIS will perform exactly the same as a EODIS3 under the new HCFR v3.
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post #24 of 50 Old 08-31-2012, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kanedo View Post

Does anyone know if the Colormunki Display (CMUNDIS) has the same hardware as the i1 Display Pro (EODIS3)? From the product info, it sounds like CMUNDIS is slower. Is this a limitation imposed by the software or is this a limitation of the hardware itself? I guess what I'm really asking is whether CMUNDIS will perform exactly the same as a EODIS3 under the new HCFR v3.
The speed limitation is in the hardware. The cmundis will be slower in HCFR 3.x than the eodis3. I have the munki - it is about the same speed as the i1d2, maybe even a tad slower.

Accuracy is the same between the cmundis and eodis3 according to the x-rite rep I traded emails with on the subject.
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post #25 of 50 Old 08-31-2012, 11:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by djams View Post

The speed limitation is in the hardware. The cmundis will be slower in HCFR 3.x than the eodis3. I have the munki - it is about the same speed as the i1d2, maybe even a tad slower.
Accuracy is the same between the cmundis and eodis3 according to the x-rite rep I traded emails with on the subject.

Thanks! That's exactly what I wanted to know. Now we just need someone to figure out how to take the firmware of EOSDIS3 and put it into the CMUNDIS to uncap that artificial speed limiter.
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post #26 of 50 Old 10-09-2012, 10:17 AM
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So the only purpose of the i1 Pro is to create a profile for the Display 2/Lt and then calibrate your display using the Display 2/Lt? I have an old Display Lt which I suspect has drifted, even though it's been stored with silica gel packs in a relatively dry place.


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post #27 of 50 Old 10-09-2012, 10:28 AM
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Is the problem with i1Pro that it takes too long to take readings at lower levels or that it just can't read those lower levels?

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post #28 of 50 Old 10-09-2012, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Is the problem with i1Pro that it takes too long to take readings at lower levels or that it just can't read those lower levels?

Based on my experiences with the i1Pro (1), I'd say it's good for readings 1 fL and higher. Speed is not the main issue with darker readings, accuracy is. I can get accurate grayscale readings from it as low as 20% gray, though it may be limited to 30% gray if peak white is too low/gamma is too dark. Currently, I'm using my i1Pro alone for calibrating my new Samsung LED-LCD and 2008 Panasonic Plasma, both of which lack ten-point grayscale/gamma controls and don't even need the RGB low end controls to be adjusted from defaults (so really only 1-pt grayscale is needed on these two sets, RGB high end only).


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post #29 of 50 Old 10-09-2012, 11:07 AM
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Is the problem with i1Pro that it takes too long to take readings at lower levels or that it just can't read those lower levels?

Both.

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post #30 of 50 Old 10-09-2012, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

Based on my experiences with the i1Pro (1), I'd say it's good for readings 1 fL and higher. Speed is not the main issue with darker readings, accuracy is. I can get accurate grayscale readings from it as low as 20% gray, though it may be limited to 30% gray if peak white is too low/gamma is too dark. Currently, I'm using my i1Pro alone for calibrating my new Samsung LED-LCD and 2008 Panasonic Plasma, both of which lack ten-point grayscale/gamma controls and don't even need the RGB low end controls to be adjusted from defaults (so really only 1-pt grayscale is needed on these two sets, RGB high end only).

So if I get an i1Pro I should use that first to create a correction matrix for my Display Lt (on the actual set being calibrated), then use the i1Pro for all readings above 30% gray and for CMS calibration. If lower than 30% needs to be measured then use the Display Lt.


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