Radiance 3D LUT (5x5x5 Cube) Calibration with CalMAN 5 - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 815 Old 10-17-2013, 06:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post

CalMAN 5.2.0 Changes:


The Accupel 5000 no longer crashes. However it looks like we're not bringing up APL patterns yet. Instead we bring up windowed patterns. I'd like it if our Accupel 5000 customers can confirm this behavior. I'm also asking for volunteers who are willing to provide log files.

Yes it does - every time. And no, it does not pull up APL patterns, only standard Windows.

Edit: Log attached 17Oct Calman 5.2 Log file.txt 132k .txt file
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File Type: txt 17Oct Calman 5.2 Log file.txt (131.8 KB, 9 views)

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post #632 of 815 Old 10-17-2013, 10:49 AM - Thread Starter
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CalMAN 5.2.0 RC1a (Build 1355) is available for download here.

CalMAN 5.2.0 Changes

The Accupel 5000 no longer crashes. However it looks like we're not bringing up APL patterns yet. Instead we bring up windowed patterns. I'd like it if our Accupel 5000 customers can confirm this behavior. I'm also asking for volunteers who are willing to provide log files.
The Display\Grayscale Data Points and Display\Cube Data Points datafields are now working properly.
The AVFoundry VideoForge II is now network discoverable. This requires new firmware that is not yet currently available.
We have changed to default gamma formula in CalMAN to ITU BT1886. All shipping CalMAN video calibration workflows are now set to this gamma formula. The default for new workflows is also ITU BT1886. Existing custom workflows will not be affected by this change.

Known Issues
You can currently set a non 20xx model Radiance to 9 points. If you have this set to 9 points and click AutoCal, you will be stuck in an infinite error loop and will have to kill the CalMAN process to get out of it.
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post #633 of 815 Old 10-18-2013, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

Yes it does - every time. And no, it does not pull up APL patterns, only standard Windows.

Edit: Log attached 17Oct Calman 5.2 Log file.txt 132k .txt file

I'm only putting a copy of the Spectracal Info in my Posting - Log would have to be done on their Website.
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post #634 of 815 Old 10-18-2013, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by p5browne View Post

I'm only putting a copy of the Spectracal Info in my Posting - Log would have to be done on their Website.

I just loaded the newest version. CM no longer crashes with the AccuPel but the APL pattern selection yields standard Windows patterns. Almost there. smile.gif

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post #635 of 815 Old 10-18-2013, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

I just loaded the newest version. CM no longer crashes with the AccuPel but the APL pattern selection yields standard Windows patterns. Almost there. smile.gif

I believe Derek has the issue resolved, we are just waiting on a few other pieces to get sorted out before we push the next update.

Run any LUTs for your EE? The RC standard and detailed options are now using our 3rd Gen technology. Should be a real step up from the results you were seeing previously.

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post #636 of 815 Old 10-18-2013, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

I believe Derek has the issue resolved, we are just waiting on a few other pieces to get sorted out before we push the next update.

Run any LUTs for your EE? The RC standard and detailed options are now using our 3rd Gen technology. Should be a real step up from the results you were seeing previously.

I'm headed for FL in the morning and I have a Samsung F8000 LCD down there in a room where I can hide with total light control. I'll try out the new tech.

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post #637 of 815 Old 10-18-2013, 11:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

I believe Derek has the issue resolved, we are just waiting on a few other pieces to get sorted out before we push the next update.

Run any LUTs for your EE? The RC standard and detailed options are now using our 3rd Gen technology. Should be a real step up from the results you were seeing previously.

I'm headed for FL in the morning and I have a Samsung F8000 LCD down there in a room where I can hide with total light control. I'll try out the new tech.

Buzz, Keep us updated with your results, total time, total reads, and if you have the Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk with you, load the Color Reproduction Patterns to verify the results. wink.gif

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post #638 of 815 Old 10-19-2013, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

Buzz, Keep us updated with your results, total time, total reads, and if you have the Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk with you, load the Color Reproduction Patterns to verify the results. wink.gif

I performed a 4913 point 3D LUT on my kuro the other night with the latest firmware. Total time was 4hrs 57 minutes. Meter used was a C6 profiles against a new i1pro. The patterns i used were Calmans internal Constant APL 18. The results came out pretty good....




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post #639 of 815 Old 10-19-2013, 03:18 PM
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Damn! 0.3

The clarity in that must be amazing. How far do the studios productions get their displays down to?
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post #640 of 815 Old 10-19-2013, 03:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by xvfx View Post

Damn! 0.3

The clarity in that must be amazing. How far do the studios productions get their displays down to?

Very good results, but this 0.3dE is the results that the C6 profiled from i1PRO is reporting, not the actual dE if you measure it with reference colorimeter like Klein or Konica-Minolta profilied from a reference 5nm spectro.

So this makes the 0.3dE means nothing to the professional world accepted tolerancies.

It's translated to 1.5-3.0 dE Range, minimum.

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post #641 of 815 Old 10-19-2013, 03:40 PM
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Yes, and I am running a 4913 LUT using CM5B 5.2.RC1a. Using my Klein profile with a I1Pro 2, 2041 as pattern source and eecolor box as display.

Want to see what the hub bub is all about using CM's new 3D cube platform.

ss

Update

Charts/results are pretty much the same as 1forsnow, except for total time and reads.eek.gif
The strange thing is the stepped 21 point GS charts looks to be off.

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post #642 of 815 Old 10-19-2013, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

Very good results, but this 0.3dE is the results that the C6 profiled from i1PRO is reporting, not the actual dE if you measure it with reference colorimeter like Klein or Konica-Minolta profilied from a reference 5nm spectro.

So this makes the 0.3dE means nothing to the professional world accepted tolerancies.

It's translated to 1.5-3.0 dE Range, minimum.

Very interesting Ted, I was not aware that the C6/i1 pro combo was that far off from a reference spectro. Of course i know that the i1 pro is not perfect or considered a reference meter by any means and has its limits.

Do you have any proof to quantify this? Or can you point me in the direction of some articles that discuss this? I would love to read them......thanks
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post #643 of 815 Old 10-19-2013, 08:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1forsnow View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

Very good results, but this 0.3dE is the results that the C6 profiled from i1PRO is reporting, not the actual dE if you measure it with reference colorimeter like Klein or Konica-Minolta profilied from a reference 5nm spectro.

So this makes the 0.3dE means nothing to the professional world accepted tolerancies.

It's translated to 1.5-3.0 dE Range, minimum.

Very interesting Ted, I was not aware that the C6/i1 pro combo was that far off from a reference spectro. Of course i know that the i1 pro is not perfect or considered a reference meter by any means and has its limits.

Do you have any proof to quantify this? Or can you point me in the direction of some articles that discuss this? I would love to read them......thanks

Tom Huffman has runned some tests:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1487208/colorimeters-and-spectrographs-questions/30#post_23781026

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1342422/x-rites-revolutionary-new-colorimeter/1290#post_23443447

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post #644 of 815 Old 10-19-2013, 10:14 PM
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Good reading Ted, thank you. But IMO those tests were more of a comparison between the i1 pro and the i1d3. However Tom did have some great dE comparisons between his Jeti and an i1pro. If i am looking at his charts correctly, the largest difference between those 2 meters on a PLASMA was 1.2 dE (measuring blue which i believe is probably correct. I always thought the i1 pro always struggled with blue).
So if i was to apply similar logic, my highest dE would be 1.7ish, maximum.(averaging my blue errors to .5dE, which is generous, and adding 1.2dE).

IMO, Toms comparisons just measure 4 lonely points inside a large triangle with thousands or millions of color combinations. Without having a Jeti myself to measure, I really have no idea how accurate or non-accurate my display is. Sure maybe the Jeti has larger measured errors at the points he measured, but what if the i1pro and Jeti measure closer together at other color points inside the triangle? My .02

sorry for the long post, can you tell i am bored?smile.gif
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post #645 of 815 Old 10-19-2013, 11:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 1forsnow View Post


Good reading Ted, thank you. But IMO those tests were more of a comparison between the i1 pro and the i1d3. However Tom did have some great dE comparisons between his Jeti and an i1pro. If i am looking at his charts correctly, the largest difference between those 2 meters on a PLASMA was 1.2 dE (measuring blue which i believe is probably correct. I always thought the i1 pro always struggled with blue).
So if i was to apply similar logic, my highest dE would be 1.7ish, maximum.(averaging my blue errors to .5dE, which is generous, and adding 1.2dE).

IMO, Toms comparisons just measure 4 lonely points inside a large triangle with thousands or millions of color combinations. Without having a Jeti myself to measure, I really have no idea how accurate or non-accurate my display is. Sure maybe the Jeti has larger measured errors at the points he measured, but what if the i1pro and Jeti measure closer together at other color points inside the triangle? My .02

sorry for the long post, can you tell i am bored?smile.gif

Check the Links i have post again, Post 1309 displays the difference of i1PRO vs. JETI, Post 1311 i1PRO2 vs. JETI.

After that check post 26 here, so see how visible are some small dE differencies.

Tom has tested one single display, if you run that test to 5 different display/technology models you will see greater differencies.

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post #646 of 815 Old 10-20-2013, 12:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Here is an example of the Spectral Response Resolution of i1PRO vs. JETI 1211 measuring a Pioneer KURO.


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post #647 of 815 Old 10-20-2013, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by 1forsnow View Post

Very interesting Ted, I was not aware that the C6/i1 pro combo was that far off from a reference spectro. Of course i know that the i1 pro is not perfect or considered a reference meter by any means and has its limits.

Do you have any proof to quantify this? Or can you point me in the direction of some articles that discuss this? I would love to read them......thanks

I have been looking into profiling my K10-A with a I1Pro 2 or a Jeti 1201, the response from both LS and CM is stay with the I1Pro 2. Not to say the I1Pro 2 is a better meter for profiling but visual difference between the I1Pro 2 and the Jeti 1201 used as a reference meter is not much and you would be very hard pressed to see any difference at all on are Plasma display's.

I for one don't really put a great deal of trust in dE's, the reason is running a Large LUT using LS verse CM. CM is always the winner in the dE department but never in real world viewing. imo CM has improved with there latest software RC1a for large LUT cubes, not in the dE's but in real world viewing, however LS is still the leader in real world viewing.

ss
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post #648 of 815 Old 10-20-2013, 12:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1forsnow View Post

Very interesting Ted, I was not aware that the C6/i1 pro combo was that far off from a reference spectro. Of course i know that the i1 pro is not perfect or considered a reference meter by any means and has its limits.

Do you have any proof to quantify this? Or can you point me in the direction of some articles that discuss this? I would love to read them......thanks

I have been looking into profiling my K10-A with a I1Pro 2 or a Jeti 1201, the response from both LS and CM is stay with the I1Pro 2. Not to say the I1Pro 2 is a better meter for profiling but visual difference between the I1Pro 2 and the Jeti 1201 used as a reference meter is not much and you would be very hard pressed to see any difference at all on are Plasma display's.

I for one don't really put a great deal of trust in dE's, the reason is running a Large LUT using LS verse CM. CM is always the winner in the dE department but never in real world viewing. imo CM has improved with there latest software RC1a for large LUT cubes, not in the dE's but in real world viewing, however LS is still the leader in real world viewing.

ss

This is an example of i1PRO vs. JETI 1211 on a Panasonic Plasma... +2.0dE difference between meter readings on blue is easily visible
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Ok, so what are you going to use to profile your new K10-A with. ?

ss

If Klein Plasma Table that is coming from Konika-Minolta CS2000 is closer to JETI reads then I will prefer the Klein's Table.

Early next year I have plans to place an order for JETI 1211 wink.gif

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post #651 of 815 Old 10-20-2013, 12:44 PM
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I wouldn't rely on the factory plasma table (or any factory table) on the Klein..

I don't on mine, neither does D-Nice, he actually has unique values for the 2012 and 13 Panasonics.

Jeti/Klein combo eek.gif You will be set!

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post #652 of 815 Old 10-20-2013, 01:04 PM - Thread Starter
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I wouldn't rely on the factory plasma table (or any factory table) on the Klein..

I don't on mine, neither does D-Nice, he actually has unique values for the 2012 and 13 Panasonics.

Jeti/Klein combo eek.gif You will be set!

.

I will run create 2 different eecolor memories, one using Klein's Plasma Table and one with Klein Profiling from my i1PRO2. It will be like a game,lol

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post #653 of 815 Old 10-20-2013, 01:18 PM
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I wouldn't rely on the factory plasma table (or any factory table) on the Klein..

<<Snip>>

Jeti/Klein combo eek.gif You will be set!

.

Yes that is what Klein says. They also said a 1IPro 2 is a help but much better to use a reference spectro.

ss
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post #654 of 815 Old 10-20-2013, 01:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

I wouldn't rely on the factory plasma table (or any factory table) on the Klein..

<<Snip>>

Jeti/Klein combo eek.gif You will be set!

.

Yes that is what Klein says. They also said a 1IPro 2 is a help but much better to use a reference spectro.

ss

SS + Turbe, Here is the spectral measuring difference of a Panasonic Plasma using JETI 1211 vs i1PRO.

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post #655 of 815 Old 10-20-2013, 01:43 PM
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Speaking to large look up table calibrations and plasma displays.

The usual procedure is to warm up the plasma for at least an hour and then run the software using anywhere from a 2% to a 10% window pattern.

Since the display is only using 1/10th of the load (with the 10% windows) at full bright, does it stand to reason that after a few minutes into the calibration that the display has cooled off enough such that it's no longer representative of what the display would be doing during normal usage? From what others have posted, it sounds like running the software could take anywhere from 1 1/2 hours to 3 hours....more than enough time for the display to cool.

Isn't that a problem?

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post #656 of 815 Old 10-20-2013, 01:56 PM
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Which Panasonic plasma model was that? remember, he uses different ones for those two generations.. but, I do understand the limitation of the design though professional level results can be obtained IMO for that meter combo and considering the market and budget.

D-Nice uses a Photo Research.. meters referenced from the minolta will read differently than the Photo Researches (this has been covered previously).. you will find that Photo Research is the standard for broadcast/film industry here in the states and in many cases a calibrator won't even get into the door without one (and actually using it on the job).
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I will run create 2 different eecolor memories, one using Klein's Plasma Table and one with Klein Profiling from my i1PRO2. It will be like a game,lol

You can also use Klein's software to create and write the tables directly into the K-10's 89 banks.. However, I just noticed the current version of CalMAN doesn't seem to allow you to select all those banks (by #) as in previous CalMAN versions... maybe only 0-2 by number, but you can still select via type (those that doesn't cover all 89, just a few). I need to check a few things

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post #657 of 815 Old 10-20-2013, 02:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Which Panasonic plasma model was that? remember, he uses different ones for those two generations.

D-Nice uses a Photo Research.. meters referenced from the minolta will read differently than the Photo Researches (this has been covered previously).. you will find that Photo Research is the standard for broadcast/film industry here in the states and in many cases a calibrator won't even get into the door without one (and actually using it on the job).
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

I will run create 2 different eecolor memories, one using Klein's Plasma Table and one with Klein Profiling from my i1PRO2. It will be like a game,lol

You can also use Klein's software to create and write the tables directly into the K-10's 89 banks.. However, I just noticed the current version of CalMAN doesn't seem to allow you to select all those banks (by #) as in previous CalMAN versions... maybe only 0-2 by number, but you can still select via type (those that doesn't cover all 89, just a few). I need to check a few things

Yeap, I agree that Photo Research will open bigger doors, but the 2.000$ annual re-certification is painful.

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post #658 of 815 Old 10-20-2013, 03:10 PM
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I probably would go Jeti 1211 myself if I was in the market (specs like PR-670).. I was interested at one time. In fact, had a lead on a used 1211 and had the first opportunity to buy it, passed on it but forward the lead to Chad Billheimer (after another Pro passed), who now owns that 1211.. wink.gif

Best Combos IMO: Jeti / K-10 or Photo Research (with <=5nm) / K-10

For profiling the K-10, you could get a way with using the 1201 to.

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post #659 of 815 Old 10-20-2013, 03:33 PM - Thread Starter
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I probably would go Jeti 1211 myself if I was in the market (specs like PR-670).. I was interested at one time. In fact, had a lead on a used 1211 and had the first opportunity to buy it, passed on it but forward the lead to Chad Billheimer (after another Pro passed), who now owns that 1211.. wink.gif

Best Combos IMO: Jeti / K-10 or Photo Research (with <=5nm) / K-10

For profiling the K-10, you could get a way with using the 1201 to.

The JETI manual is saying that:

1201 Light receiving element: 512 pixel photodiode array
1211 Light receiving element: 2048 pixel photodiode array

Another one difference is at the reported Digital spectral resolution and that the 1211 has the display synchronization (Hz) feature that is not available at 1201.

1211 (Page 40)

1201 (Page 29)

I will prefer the 1211 wink.gif

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post #660 of 815 Old 10-20-2013, 03:50 PM
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1211 is more sensitive and performance is better.. but for just profiling the K-10 you could get away with the 1201 which doesn't take long anyways.. however, I do not think it's a major jump to go to the 1211 (both new).. I prefer the 1211 though you never know if a used 1201 pops up for a great price wink.gif

that display synchronization feature may be key though, especially on plasmas (though I thought both models at that and fixed/working on the current API).

Ted, are you going to get the BT version?

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