Radiance 3D LUT (5x5x5 Cube) Calibration with CalMAN 5 - Page 4 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 8Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #91 of 825 Old 09-14-2012, 09:38 AM
AVS Special Member
 
PlasmaPZ80U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,291
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 112 Post(s)
Liked: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by N3W813 View Post

Question before I drop ~2000 on a Radiance Mini without my wife knowing....(you all know how dangerous that is.....)
Can it fix the bad color tracking of a Sharp Elite? smile.gif

are all Sharp Elites that bad?
PlasmaPZ80U is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #92 of 825 Old 09-14-2012, 09:51 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Chad B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Piqua, OH
Posts: 2,126
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 103 Post(s)
Liked: 504
All Sharp Quattrons are that bad, Elite or not. Calibrating at 75% saturation certainly helps and the color can look subjectively pleasing but never objectively accurate (until this with the Lumagen, of course).

ISF/THX calibrator with Jeti 1211 reference spectro
Latest reviews:LG 65UB9800Samsung UN65HU8550UN65HU9000, UN85HU8550, LG 55EC9300, LG 55EA8800 (including 3D)

Why I don't publish settings, Review index and rankings, Florida tour Dec '14, Texas tour Jan '15
Chad B is offline  
post #93 of 825 Old 09-14-2012, 09:51 AM
AVS Special Member
 
sotti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 6,640
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Liked: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

are all Sharp Elites that bad?

Yes they are all that bad, and yes that is exactly what a lumagen Cube 3D Lut will fix.

Joel Barsotti
SpectraCal
CalMAN Lead Developer
sotti is offline  
post #94 of 825 Old 09-14-2012, 10:39 AM
AVS Special Member
 
derekjsmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Mukilteo, WA
Posts: 1,890
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

Yes they are all that bad, and yes that is exactly what a lumagen Cube 3D Lut will fix.

As I stated yesterday: This marks a significant milestone in how we calibrate displays

Not just the AutoCal side of it but now being able to truly fix all the mistakes the display mfg can make.

Derek

CTO / Founder - SpectraCal Inc.
derekjsmith is offline  
post #95 of 825 Old 09-14-2012, 10:54 AM
AVS Special Member
 
N3W813's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,140
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post

All Sharp Quattrons are that bad, Elite or not. Calibrating at 75% saturation certainly helps and the color can look subjectively pleasing but never objectively accurate (until this with the Lumagen, of course).

Sorry for the newbish question......when I calibrate CMS in Calman v5, the default setting is 75% "luminance". This is not the same as calibrating 75% saturation, right? If not, how should I configure Calman v5 in order to calibrate 75% saturation? And at what % luminance?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

Yes they are all that bad, and yes that is exactly what a lumagen Cube 3D Lut will fix.
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekjsmith View Post

As I stated yesterday: This marks a significant milestone in how we calibrate displays
Not just the AutoCal side of it but now being able to truly fix all the mistakes the display mfg can make.

My wife hates your answers..... wink.gif

My ArgyllCMS/MadVR 3DLUT Creation Workflow
My Sharp Elite Movie THX AV Mode Settings
--Aug 2011 Set, 2.2 gamma [ link ]
--Nov 2012 Set, 2.2 gamma [ link ]
N3W813 is online now  
post #96 of 825 Old 09-14-2012, 10:57 AM
AVS Special Member
 
sotti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 6,640
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Liked: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by N3W813 View Post

Sorry for the newbish question......when I calibrate CMS in Calman v5, the default setting is 75% "luminance". This is not the same as calibrating 75% saturation, right? If not, how should I configure Calman v5 in order to calibrate 75% saturation? And at what % luminance?

In some of the advanced workflows their are saturation graphs, like the ones posted in this thread. To calibrate using 75% saturation, you adjust the CMS while looking at those points to see how much you should adjust the system. You can use any luminance percentage you want. By default we use 75% (It's the same selector for gamut and gamut saturation in our UI).

Joel Barsotti
SpectraCal
CalMAN Lead Developer
sotti is offline  
post #97 of 825 Old 09-14-2012, 03:12 PM
AVS Special Member
 
derekjsmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Mukilteo, WA
Posts: 1,890
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 98
Radiance 090512 beta firmware just posted: http://www.lumagen.com/testindex.php?module=updates

I'm sure this will happen a few times over the next week so I would check with Lumagen every couple of days until it is final.
Mike_WI likes this.

Derek

CTO / Founder - SpectraCal Inc.
derekjsmith is offline  
post #98 of 825 Old 09-14-2012, 04:15 PM
AVS Special Member
 
derekjsmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Mukilteo, WA
Posts: 1,890
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 98
Here we go http://store.spectracal.com/downloads.html license keys are also in the email queue, let the fun begin

Derek

CTO / Founder - SpectraCal Inc.
derekjsmith is offline  
post #99 of 825 Old 09-14-2012, 04:35 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Rolls-Royce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Victorville, CA
Posts: 2,063
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked: 68
OK, I'm in. I just downloaded the V5 Home RC and have ordered a Radiance Mini-3D. Curious to see how much of a difference it will make over my VideoEQ Pro!smile.gif

...Royce...

"I never drink...wine."
Bela Lugosi, DRACULA, 1931
Rolls-Royce is offline  
post #100 of 825 Old 09-14-2012, 04:38 PM
AVS Special Member
 
N3W813's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,140
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekjsmith View Post

Here we go http://store.spectracal.com/downloads.html license keys are also in the email queue, let the fun begin

CalPC Client on downloads page show 2.1.1.18 but actual download is still 2.1.1.13. smile.gif

My ArgyllCMS/MadVR 3DLUT Creation Workflow
My Sharp Elite Movie THX AV Mode Settings
--Aug 2011 Set, 2.2 gamma [ link ]
--Nov 2012 Set, 2.2 gamma [ link ]
N3W813 is online now  
post #101 of 825 Old 09-14-2012, 06:28 PM
AVS Special Member
 
derekjsmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Mukilteo, WA
Posts: 1,890
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by N3W813 View Post

CalPC Client on downloads page show 2.1.1.18 but actual download is still 2.1.1.13. smile.gif

That is being fixed it should say 2.1.1.13 are working on CalPC Client 2.2.1.18 but that won't be out until next week.

Derek

CTO / Founder - SpectraCal Inc.
derekjsmith is offline  
post #102 of 825 Old 09-14-2012, 07:35 PM
Advanced Member
 
njfoses's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 651
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Im thinking about jumping aboard the auto calibrate train and have a question. Can you pause the process to take a dark reading with the i1 pro since the process takes 40 min or so?
njfoses is offline  
post #103 of 825 Old 09-14-2012, 07:45 PM
AVS Special Member
 
sotti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 6,640
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Liked: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by njfoses View Post

Im thinking about jumping aboard the auto calibrate train and have a question. Can you pause the process to take a dark reading with the i1 pro since the process takes 40 min or so?

You can't, but the Cube cal process only runs for about 20 minutes and doesn't really have very many dark readings, so an i1 Pro should be fine, just do a dark cal right before you kick off the cube calibration portion.
e08 likes this.

Joel Barsotti
SpectraCal
CalMAN Lead Developer
sotti is offline  
post #104 of 825 Old 09-14-2012, 07:58 PM
AVS Special Member
 
buzzard767's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Naples, FL & Wausau, WI
Posts: 4,106
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 445 Post(s)
Liked: 973
Quote:
Originally Posted by N3W813 View Post

Question before I drop ~2000 on a Radiance Mini without my wife knowing....(you all know how dangerous that is.....)
Can it fix the bad color tracking of a Sharp Elite? smile.gif

Yes indeed, and it looks like Sharp is never going to come up with the 12 month old tracking fix they promised. 3D LUTs send a "fake" signal to the TV knowing that that TV will think it is doing the right thing but actually produces a picture that was meant to be originally. Make sense?

Buzz
THX Certified Video Calibrator

 

buzzard767 is online now  
post #105 of 825 Old 09-14-2012, 10:47 PM
Advanced Member
 
rjyap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 831
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Got the license key this morning and done the 3D LUT 125point calibration on Panny PY800. The skin tone never look this good before. Lumagen and Spectracal 5 is awesome in giving us 3D LUT and AutoCal which completed in around one hour. The basic greyscale, gamma and 1D CMS still need to be perform on your display before running the 125 points cube calibration.



rjyap is offline  
post #106 of 825 Old 09-15-2012, 05:06 AM
Advanced Member
 
njfoses's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 651
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

You can't, but the Cube cal process only runs for about 20 minutes and doesn't really have very many dark readings, so an i1 Pro should be fine, just do a dark cal right before you kick off the cube calibration portion.

So the software pauses between grayscale and the cube portion to allow for a dark reading?
njfoses is offline  
post #107 of 825 Old 09-15-2012, 05:07 AM
Advanced Member
 
njfoses's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 651
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjyap View Post

Got the license key this morning and done the 3D LUT 125point calibration on Panny PY800. The skin tone never look this good before. Lumagen and Spectracal 5 is awesome in giving us 3D LUT and AutoCal which completed in around one hour. The basic greyscale, gamma and 1D CMS still need to be perform on your display before running the 125 points cube calibration.


I can understand getting grayscale and gamma in the ballpark before starting but shouldnt the cube take care of all cms work?
njfoses is offline  
post #108 of 825 Old 09-15-2012, 08:21 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Gordon Fraser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: S.E. England
Posts: 1,609
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by njfoses View Post

I can understand getting grayscale and gamma in the ballpark before starting but shouldnt the cube take care of all cms work?

You don't need to run any 1d cms before running the 125 point cube. you just do your greyscale and set your gamma how you want it then run the 125point CMS. No need to do the old style 8 point one first.

Convergent-AV
ISF, Home Theater Consultants and Distribution, U.K.
Gordon Fraser is offline  
post #109 of 825 Old 09-15-2012, 08:37 AM
Advanced Member
 
rjyap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 831
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by njfoses View Post

I can understand getting grayscale and gamma in the ballpark before starting but shouldnt the cube take care of all cms work?

The CMS is done on the display, not lumagen. Need to calibrate the display first before running Cube calibration so that the mapping is not too far off.

Anyway, just done BENQ W6000 cube calibration. Found out that BENQ internal color processing for saturation is quite linear.
rjyap is offline  
post #110 of 825 Old 09-15-2012, 09:21 AM
AVS Special Member
 
sotti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 6,640
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Liked: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by njfoses View Post

So the software pauses between grayscale and the cube portion to allow for a dark reading?

They are two discrete steps, so yes their is a break between them.

Joel Barsotti
SpectraCal
CalMAN Lead Developer
sotti is offline  
post #111 of 825 Old 09-15-2012, 09:23 AM
AVS Special Member
 
sotti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 6,640
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Liked: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjyap View Post

The CMS is done on the display, not lumagen. Need to calibrate the display first before running Cube calibration so that the mapping is not too far off.
Anyway, just done BENQ W6000 cube calibration. Found out that BENQ internal color processing for saturation is quite linear.

That all depends on the quality of the CMS in your display. Some CMSs do more harm than good, creating artifacts or making the display's linearity issues worse.

In the case of a bad CMS, leaving it alone is fine. If you've got a decent CMS, leaving it just slightly over-saturated means less adjustment in the radiance, which is always better the less processing you have to do.

Joel Barsotti
SpectraCal
CalMAN Lead Developer
sotti is offline  
post #112 of 825 Old 09-15-2012, 10:00 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
cal87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Tracy, CA
Posts: 1,283
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 15
I'll ask before someone else does.

Calibrate with Darbee on or off?
cal87 is offline  
post #113 of 825 Old 09-15-2012, 10:11 AM
AVS Special Member
 
sotti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 6,640
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Liked: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by cal87 View Post

I'll ask before someone else does.
Calibrate with Darbee on or off?

Since the Darbee is just a sharpness control on steroids, it shouldn't have any effect on solid swatches.

If leaving it on, has an effect, we'd effectively be calibrating out it's "enhancements". So I think from that perspective you'd want to turn it off while calibrating.

Joel Barsotti
SpectraCal
CalMAN Lead Developer
sotti is offline  
post #114 of 825 Old 09-15-2012, 01:11 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Doug Blackburn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: San Francisco - East Bay area
Posts: 3,457
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by cal87 View Post

I'll ask before someone else does.
Calibrate with Darbee on or off?

I still feel like doing calibration as complete as 20 grayscale steps (with 20 gamma corrections) and even the 8-point CMS (let alone the cube matrix calibration), then applying Darbee or any other processing device to partially un-do the highly accurate calibration is a bit of whatever you'd call a calibration oxymoron. Here you are making a display as accurate as possible so you can see the precise intent of whoever directed or shot the program (movie or TV) thinks is "perfect" and you are taking that "perfect" and making it "less perfect" with the add-on box just to make the images "prettier" than the originals. It just seems contradictory.
giraffejumper likes this.

"Movies is magic..." Van Dyke Parks
THX -- ISF -- HAA
Doug Blackburn is offline  
post #115 of 825 Old 09-16-2012, 05:54 AM
AVS Special Member
 
dazzerxxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,549
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
I'd appreciate some help with a problem I'm encountering. Running the color cube workflow template I can get as far as successfully completing RGB autocal but nothing appears to happen on the "calibrate 3d coloe cube lut" screen when I select the autocal button. I may be missing something obvious in the settings but I'm not sure what.

The Radiance is set in both display control and pattern gen and I appear to be able to take gamut readings using the series read button on the calibrate 3d lut color cube screen.

Any ideas` ?
dazzerxxx is offline  
post #116 of 825 Old 09-16-2012, 07:18 AM
AVS Special Member
 
buzzard767's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Naples, FL & Wausau, WI
Posts: 4,106
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 445 Post(s)
Liked: 973
Quote:
Originally Posted by dazzerxxx View Post

I'd appreciate some help with a problem I'm encountering. Running the color cube workflow template I can get as far as successfully completing RGB autocal but nothing appears to happen on the "calibrate 3d coloe cube lut" screen when I select the autocal button. I may be missing something obvious in the settings but I'm not sure what.
The Radiance is set in both display control and pattern gen and I appear to be able to take gamut readings using the series read button on the calibrate 3d lut color cube screen.
Any ideas` ?

For Direct Display Control you need to select Lumagen Radiance 3D LUT, not Lumagen Radiance CMS.

Buzz
THX Certified Video Calibrator

 

buzzard767 is online now  
post #117 of 825 Old 09-16-2012, 08:08 AM
AVS Special Member
 
SJHT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,927
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
I have a Rad XE3D and ran this last night. Very impressive. I have a basic question. Seems like the Rad automatically SAVES after? I'm used to doing this manually after changes prior to powering off. SJ
SJHT is offline  
post #118 of 825 Old 09-16-2012, 08:17 AM
AVS Special Member
 
dazzerxxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,549
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

For Direct Display Control you need to select Lumagen Randiance 3D LUT, not Lumagen Radiance CMS.

Thanks Buzz

Where do I make this selection ?

Under "display control" tab there only appears to options for "Direct Display Control" or "Lumagen Radiance CMS".
dazzerxxx is offline  
post #119 of 825 Old 09-16-2012, 08:48 AM
AVS Special Member
 
sotti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 6,640
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Liked: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by dazzerxxx View Post

Thanks Buzz
Where do I make this selection ?
Under "display control" tab there only appears to options for "Direct Display Control" or "Lumagen Radiance CMS".

What license do you have for CalMAN? You need to have an enthusiast license to use the Cube 3D Lut calibration.

Joel Barsotti
SpectraCal
CalMAN Lead Developer
sotti is offline  
post #120 of 825 Old 09-16-2012, 08:54 AM
AVS Special Member
 
dazzerxxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,549
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
According the the email I received it's "Enthusiast license level" because I had additional add-on keys under v4. This is confirmed under the licensing menu item.


EDIT :-

Doh ! Think I spotted the issue. Under DDC "find display" I selected the wrong Radiance option i.e. CMS and not LUT. Thanks Buzz
dazzerxxx is offline  
Reply Display Calibration

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off