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Display Calibration

TomButera's Avatar TomButera
03:33 PM Liked: 10
post #1 of 38
10-01-2012 | Posts: 8
Joined: Oct 2012
This site has been a huge help in getting me interested in calibrating televisions. I am in the market to purchase equipment from Spectracal. I am however not sure which product I should purchase. I have $2000 to work with.
I have questions and would like to ask the community which would be the best way to go.
I found this package on Spectracal's website CalMAN DIY Software w/ SpectraCal C6 & DPG-1400 Pattern Generator that is on sale for around $1500. I also saw they are selling calMan 5 expert for around $1500 and buy calMan 5 for around $400.
From what I have read I can connect a laptop to the HDTV and use calMan 5 to do auto calibration.
I have never owned or purchased this type of equipment before. Which would be a better bet for me to get my hands dirty with calibration and allow me to do this for a living.
Any and all advice/ suggestions are graciously accepted.
Thank you.
sotti's Avatar sotti
03:52 PM Liked: 175
post #2 of 38
10-01-2012 | Posts: 6,640
Joined: Aug 2004
If you're a home user you want our CalMAN 5 Home Theater product, to use our software for business use you'd want CalMAN 5 for Business.

You can always upgrade your license from home use to professional use.

For hardware to start out with the C6 is a great meter that scales to professional use. The DPG on the other hand is a good home use pattern generator, but isn't considered a professional generator.

You can start off using even a free pattern disc as the pattern source. You can add an IR control to automate disc based players, then move into real pattern generators later.
TomButera's Avatar TomButera
04:01 PM Liked: 10
post #3 of 38
10-01-2012 | Posts: 8
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Awesome, thanks for the prompt reply. Currently I have spent countless hours using the AVSHD that I found on this site. That in conjunction with C6 and calMan 5 home would be the way to go?
sotti's Avatar sotti
04:05 PM Liked: 175
post #4 of 38
10-01-2012 | Posts: 6,640
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomButera View Post

Awesome, thanks for the prompt reply. Currently I have spent countless hours using the AVSHD that I found on this site. That in conjunction with C6 and calMan 5 home would be the way to go?

That would be a relatively inexpensive way to start down the path yes.

Our home product comes in 3 flavors, Basic, Control, and Enthusiast. You'd probably want to start with at least Control if not Enthusiast.
CalWldLif's Avatar CalWldLif
04:23 PM Liked: 29
post #5 of 38
10-01-2012 | Posts: 518
Joined: Feb 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomButera View Post

This site has been a huge help in getting me interested in calibrating televisions. I am in the market to purchase equipment from Spectracal. I am however not sure which product I should purchase. I have $2000 to work with.
I have questions and would like to ask the community which would be the best way to go.
I found this package on Spectracal's website CalMAN DIY Software w/ SpectraCal C6 & DPG-1400 Pattern Generator that is on sale for around $1500. I also saw they are selling calMan 5 expert for around $1500 and buy calMan 5 for around $400.
From what I have read I can connect a laptop to the HDTV and use calMan 5 to do auto calibration.
I have never owned or purchased this type of equipment before. Which would be a better bet for me to get my hands dirty with calibration and allow me to do this for a living.
Any and all advice/ suggestions are graciously accepted.
Thank you.
depends on what TV.

Get User feed back.
TomButera's Avatar TomButera
07:55 PM Liked: 10
post #6 of 38
10-12-2012 | Posts: 8
Joined: Oct 2012
I am continuing this thread so I don't have many different open threads.
I received my Spectracal C6 today and downloaded calMan5 enthusiast. As I am just familiarizing myself with the software please excuse my ignorance. My background is in IT and I love fiddling with things to see how they work and to make them as best as possible.

I am using my Bravia 46" 1080p connected to a ps3 via hdmi. For the pattern generator I am using AVSHD disc that I found on this forum.

Before using the C6 and spectracal enthusiast I used my eyes plus AVSHD to do a basic calibration on my tv. It looked pretty good. Here are the specs from that first run.
Backlight 8
Picture 85
Brightness 51
Color 55
Hue 0
Color temp neutral
Sharpness 3
No change to any of RGB.
Today I reset my tv to factory settings and began my journey with spectracal. I have the results of the calibration only printed out as screen shots, but I do not know how to read the results.
I am also not sure if I did all of the steps properly. I would like if possible to run what I did past other members on the forum in hopes of sorting this out and increasing my understanding. I will send the document with my first run results with calMan 5 if requested.

Lastly I saw that the AVSHD was designed for calMan 4, not 5. Does this impact what I am trying to do. If so which\what pattern generators would be excellent to start out with, price up to $600 or $700.

Any and all replies are welcome and thank you for your time.
Tom
JimP
09:18 PM Liked: 200
post #7 of 38
10-12-2012 | Posts: 15,499
Joined: Sep 2002
Tom

Post your reports so we can take a look and comment.

Is your Bravia an LCD flat panel?
TomButera's Avatar TomButera
09:25 PM Liked: 10
post #8 of 38
10-12-2012 | Posts: 8
Joined: Oct 2012
My Bravia is an LCD.
calibration first try.doc 846k .doc file

Sorry for the attachment in a word document. I forgot to save the settings as a report. I did take screen shots.
Attached: calibration first try.doc (845.5 KB) 
Rolls-Royce's Avatar Rolls-Royce
11:07 AM Liked: 68
post #9 of 38
10-13-2012 | Posts: 2,063
Joined: Apr 2003
Your AVSHD disc will work just fine with CalMAN 4 or 5. You can choose "generic calibration disc" or even AVSHD but use the player's remote to select the patterns. Use of a particular version of AVSHD is only required if you use the USB-UIRT device, since other versions have somewhat different chapter and pattern numbers than those the USB-UIRT config file is calling for.
TomButera's Avatar TomButera
11:20 AM Liked: 10
post #10 of 38
10-13-2012 | Posts: 8
Joined: Oct 2012
Thank you, this is a trip figuring out how this works together. Fun but hard.
On the calMan options do you have any preference for which option to choose?
Joshua Quain's Avatar Joshua Quain
11:45 AM Liked: 10
post #11 of 38
10-15-2012 | Posts: 36
Joined: Nov 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomButera View Post

Lastly I saw that the AVSHD was designed for calMan 4, not 5. Does this impact what I am trying to do.

Hi Tom, a couple of the CalMAN 5 workflows have been designed around the AVSHD 709 calibration pattern disc. If you open up the HT Basic Calibration workflow in CalMAN 5 (RC4) for home video calibration use, you will find that the examples in each layout are from the patterns on that disc. And if you enable pattern prompts from the Source drop down-tab on the top of the application, each measurement step in the video calibration process will provide a pop-up and tell you which pattern to use on that specific disc.

Hope this helps. Thank you for using CalMAN 5.
PlasmaPZ80U's Avatar PlasmaPZ80U
11:48 AM Liked: 204
post #12 of 38
10-15-2012 | Posts: 7,291
Joined: Feb 2009
Which workflow(s) does Control add over Basic? And which does Enthusiast add over Control?
TomButera's Avatar TomButera
01:35 PM Liked: 10
post #13 of 38
10-15-2012 | Posts: 8
Joined: Oct 2012
Thanks for replying. Is there a way to change between basic and enthusiast workflows? I had purchased enthusiast, but when I activated they asked which workflow I would like to use and I selected enthusiast. I am trying to learn this on my own and feel lost.
praz's Avatar praz
01:54 PM Liked: 26
post #14 of 38
10-15-2012 | Posts: 375
Joined: Sep 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomButera View Post

Thanks for replying. Is there a way to change between basic and enthusiast workflows? I had purchased enthusiast, but when I activated they asked which workflow I would like to use and I selected enthusiast. I am trying to learn this on my own and feel lost.
Select the different workflow template as Scotti shows in post #324 linked below.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1423111/calman-5-release-notes-and-discussion/300#post_22493872
sotti's Avatar sotti
03:03 PM Liked: 175
post #15 of 38
10-15-2012 | Posts: 6,640
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomButera View Post

Thanks for replying. Is there a way to change between basic and enthusiast workflows? I had purchased enthusiast, but when I activated they asked which workflow I would like to use and I selected enthusiast. I am trying to learn this on my own and feel lost.

You should select the workflow level based on your skill. The more advanced workflows have less hand holding and show more data.

You should definitely start off with the introduction and familiarize yourself with the app, then move on to tutorial basic. That will walk you through a calibration with quite a bit of explanation on what to do each step of the way.
anikun07's Avatar anikun07
08:14 AM Liked: 44
post #16 of 38
10-17-2012 | Posts: 1,185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

You should select the workflow level based on your skill. The more advanced workflows have less hand holding and show more data.
You should definitely start off with the introduction and familiarize yourself with the app, then move on to tutorial basic. That will walk you through a calibration with quite a bit of explanation on what to do each step of the way.

Do more advanced workflows require more advanced options on th display being calibrated? I'm sure more advanced workflows could be used for simple 2 pt balance, but with more data big shown does that make the process easier?
sotti's Avatar sotti
09:02 AM Liked: 175
post #17 of 38
10-17-2012 | Posts: 6,640
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anikun07 View Post

Do more advanced workflows require more advanced options on th display being calibrated? I'm sure more advanced workflows could be used for simple 2 pt balance, but with more data big shown does that make the process easier?

The more advanced workflows do less explanation and sometime collapse multiple steps into single operations.
But the ultimate version of that is quickview which all levels have access to.

The only thing that really sticks out is that you need the Color Cube workflow to calibrate the radiance in 3D mode, which you can only do with enthusiast.
TomButera's Avatar TomButera
02:43 PM Liked: 10
post #18 of 38
10-23-2012 | Posts: 8
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Thank you for pointing out the workflows. I used the basic and control today to calibrate my screen. If I post my report, would anyone mind looking it over for me.
I do have questions about the RGB Bias and Gain. Reading other posts in the forum, Gain is the High End and Bias covers the low end. Do I have this correct?
Also when I got to the DeltaE LCH, these are all affected by the Gain and Bias correct? Calibration 1.pdf 329k .pdf file
Any tips or pointers are greatly appreciated.
Thank you
Attached: Calibration 1.pdf (328.9 KB) 
Joshua Quain's Avatar Joshua Quain
03:13 PM Liked: 10
post #19 of 38
10-23-2012 | Posts: 36
Joined: Nov 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomButera View Post

Thank you for pointing out the workflows. I used the basic and control today to calibrate my screen. If I post my report, would anyone mind looking it over for me.
I do have questions about the RGB Bias and Gain. Reading other posts in the forum, Gain is the High End and Bias covers the low end. Do I have this correct?
Also when I got to the DeltaE LCH, these are all affected by the Gain and Bias correct? Calibration 1.pdf 329k .pdf file
Any tips or pointers are greatly appreciated.
Thank you

Hi Tom,

Feel free to post it up and we'll give you some feedback.

Yes, Gain = High, and Bias = Low. If you flip open the help panel on the right side of the "Setting Brightness and Contrast" page in CalMAN 5, their is a matrix that shows all of the known control type names for High and Low.

LCH is for adjusting the Color Management System (CMS) if you have CMS controls on your display.

L = Luminance (intensity of the output)
C = Chroma (saturation level, or how much color it has)
H = Hue (color shift or tint from or towards one color or another with respect to each primary and secondary)

If you need it, I have a couple of PDF's that show the movement of each control with respect to the color space you are calibrating too.

I hope this helps.
TomButera's Avatar TomButera
04:06 PM Liked: 10
post #20 of 38
10-23-2012 | Posts: 8
Joined: Oct 2012
Hi Josh,
If you wouldn't mind sending those pdf's over. Those sound like an interesting read.
Thanks,
Tom Butera
gunhed's Avatar gunhed
03:21 AM Liked: 14
post #21 of 38
05-28-2013 | Posts: 72
Joined: Apr 2007
Hey Josh or Joel,

I just need some advice about Calman 5 prior to placing an order.

As I understand it;


1. The autocal feature, which calibrates greyscale and CMS, works with lumagen processors, the AV foundry processor, the eecolor box and the iscan DUO.

2 The more accurate 3D colorcube calibration, which is also automatic, works with the lumagen processors, the AV foundry processor and the eecolor box only and NOT the iscan duo ?


Is this correct ?

Also the ee/spectracal colorbox has "•Six selectable full 3D color cube LUT memories." . Are these fixed, in-built LUTs with one user definable LUT or 6 user definable LUT's ?

I realise the Lumagen mini is probably better value than the eecolor box as you get a processor thrown in as well for the same price or less.

Your website is a bit confusing as there are so many hardware/software combinations and software variations.

Thanks for your help in advance.
Joshua Quain's Avatar Joshua Quain
10:44 AM Liked: 10
post #22 of 38
05-28-2013 | Posts: 36
Joined: Nov 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomButera View Post

Hi Josh,
If you wouldn't mind sending those pdf's over. Those sound like an interesting read.
Thanks,
Tom Butera

Hi Tom, the PDF document that shows LCH movement in relationship to the CIE diagram can be viewed on the other side of this page towards the bottom of the page: http://studio.spectracal.com/webinar/calman-colorchecker-recording. It's more an info-graphic that an article. Please let me know if you have any questions or would like additional information. I hope this helps.
Joshua Quain's Avatar Joshua Quain
10:50 AM Liked: 10
post #23 of 38
05-28-2013 | Posts: 36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunhed View Post


1. The autocal feature, which calibrates greyscale and CMS, works with lumagen processors, the AV foundry processor, the eecolor box and the iscan DUO.
2 The more accurate 3D colorcube calibration, which is also automatic, works with the lumagen processors, the AV foundry processor and the eecolor box only and NOT the iscan duo ?
Is this correct ?

Yes, correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunhed View Post

Also the ee/spectracal colorbox has "•Six selectable full 3D color cube LUT memories." . Are these fixed, in-built LUTs with one user definable LUT or 6 user definable LUT's ?
I realise the Lumagen mini is probably better value than the eecolor box as you get a processor thrown in as well for the same price or less.
Your website is a bit confusing as there are so many hardware/software combinations and software variations.
Thanks for your help in advance.

The SpectraCal ColorBox has user definable LUTs. Meaning you create them when you calibrate/correct a LUT in a video system. Although the hardware is the same, the EE box, has pre-loaded LUTs. So ColorBox can be calibrated with all custom LUTs on all memory spots, and the EE box is for using the pre-existing LUTs. I hope this helps.
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar ConnecTEDDD
11:36 AM Liked: 509
post #24 of 38
05-28-2013 | Posts: 2,431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Quain View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunhed View Post


1. The autocal feature, which calibrates greyscale and CMS, works with lumagen processors, the AV foundry processor, the eecolor box and the iscan DUO.
2 The more accurate 3D colorcube calibration, which is also automatic, works with the lumagen processors, the AV foundry processor and the eecolor box only and NOT the iscan duo ?
Is this correct ?

Yes, correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunhed View Post

Also the ee/spectracal colorbox has "•Six selectable full 3D color cube LUT memories." . Are these fixed, in-built LUTs with one user definable LUT or 6 user definable LUT's ?
I realise the Lumagen mini is probably better value than the eecolor box as you get a processor thrown in as well for the same price or less.
Your website is a bit confusing as there are so many hardware/software combinations and software variations.
Thanks for your help in advance.

The SpectraCal ColorBox has user definable LUTs. Meaning you create them when you calibrate/correct a LUT in a video system. Although the hardware is the same, the EE box, has pre-loaded LUTs. So ColorBox can be calibrated with all custom LUTs on all memory spots, and the EE box is for using the pre-existing LUTs. I hope this helps.

eeColor/ ColorBox = Same Hardware, the differencies have to do with Faceplate Design & Color / Firmware / Price.

Both boxes have 6 Memory Slots, each slot has 1D + 3D LUT Table.

Using them with CalMAN you can calibrate and store the generated LUT''s using any of the 6 selectable Memory Slots you like.

The difference is how CalMAN handles each box, that means:

Using ColorBox -> CalMAN Calibrates the 1D LUT (RGB-Balance & Gamma) & After that it performs 3D LUT Cube. (The Box Can be used with CalMAN Only Software)

Using eeColor -> Don't Touch/Calibrates the 1D LUT (RGB-Balance & Gamma) & it performs 3D LUT Cube only. (The Box Can be used with CalMAN and also with other Calibration Solutions)
buzzard767's Avatar buzzard767
01:44 PM Liked: 973
post #25 of 38
05-28-2013 | Posts: 4,106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Quain View Post

So ColorBox can be calibrated with all custom LUTs on all memory spots, and the EE box is for using the pre-existing LUTs. I hope this helps.[/B]

You must have missed this: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1462960/eecolor-processor-calman-3d-luts
gunhed's Avatar gunhed
02:18 AM Liked: 14
post #26 of 38
05-29-2013 | Posts: 72
Joined: Apr 2007
Hey thanks for the information,

Just 2 more though;

1. Does Calman 5 perform 3D colorcube calibration with both AV foundry processors videoeq pro AND the videoeq ?
2. it seems the spectracal variety of the eecolor box is still better than the standard model as RGB balance and Gamma are also corrected OR as 3D luts are calibrated in both the resulting picture will be the same ?

It seems the iDuo and higher end Lumagen boxes are more convenient as you don't have to manually change calibrated settings for each input device as each input can be pre-calibrated. The Lumagen boxes of course calibrated more accurately due to 3D lut capability.



Thanks in advance !
buzzard767's Avatar buzzard767
09:04 AM Liked: 973
post #27 of 38
05-29-2013 | Posts: 4,106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunhed View Post

2. it seems the spectracal variety of the eecolor box is still better than the standard model as RGB balance and Gamma are also corrected OR as 3D luts are calibrated in both the resulting picture will be the same ?

You can choose either the ee or spectracal version no matter which box is present. The software doesn't know the difference.


*Harry*'s Avatar *Harry*
01:53 AM Liked: 33
post #28 of 38
05-30-2013 | Posts: 127
Joined: Nov 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunhed View Post

1. Does Calman 5 perform 3D colorcube calibration with both AV foundry processors videoeq pro AND the videoeq ?
No, the VEQ's doesn't support 3D LUTs.
They are just for calibrating grayscale RGB balance/gamma and the gamut (RGBCMY) at one luminance level (usually 75% stimulus).
derekjsmith's Avatar derekjsmith
03:54 AM Liked: 98
post #29 of 38
05-30-2013 | Posts: 1,890
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

You can choose either the ee or spectracal version no matter which box is present. The software doesn't know the difference.


Yes it does. In fact if we find a virgin eeColor and you connect as a ColorBox we will overwrite the input, output 1D ramps and 3D cube to linear before doing anything else.
buzzard767's Avatar buzzard767
05:43 AM Liked: 973
post #30 of 38
05-30-2013 | Posts: 4,106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derekjsmith View Post

Yes it does. In fact if we find a virgin eeColor and you connect as a ColorBox we will overwrite the input, output 1D ramps and 3D cube to linear before doing anything else.

So it prepares the eeColor Processor to be the same as the Spectracal ColorBox, without, I assume, changing the original on screen displays?

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