Spears & Munsil HD Benchmark Blu-Ray 2nd Edition - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 748 Old 08-24-2014, 05:07 PM
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You can use the left and right arrow keys to move between patterns. Up and down to show and hide help.

Chapter keys are different on every remote. Hard to find in the dark. Arrow keys are easier to locate. Also, to go to previous would require double press fast to go back. Left arrow is just once.
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post #722 of 748 Old 08-24-2014, 05:28 PM
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Confirmed! Now why didn't I try that? Thanks for your we quick reply. This will make navigation so much easier.
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post #723 of 748 Old 09-23-2014, 10:36 AM
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Dear Stacey,

Frist of all, I've been a big fan of the calibration discs you and Don have created. I've been an avid user since I got the version 1 disc with my Oppo BDP83 many years ago.

I recently upgraded to v2 of HD benchmarks because my red and blues and blacks were clipping and I needed better patterns to debug what's what. I'm using a Panasonic VT60 display and I'm calibrating for a late-night, almost black room that does have equipment light and some outdoor ambient light from a door preventing complete black.

I need some advice and guidance on how to best approach the clipping I'm seeing.

When I go to the Advanced Video Evaluation menu, I see that the Red, Blue, and Black are clipping.

Here's what I've done: I ran several passes with the calibration disc. I then used D-Nice's settings for the Panasonic ZT60 display (see post #4 at: 2013 Panasonic Settings/Issues Thread) These settings really helped the red and blue clipping quite a bit but I'm still experiencing some clipping in red and blue and my black is still clipping. When I watch the demo material or a movie, I find that bright scenes are picture perfect but the early morning demo material on the disc or dusk scenes don't look great. Everything to my eyes looks like it lacks the proper contrast and looks muted.

Here then are my questions:
  1. What patterns are best to determine the clipping
  2. What TV settings should I focus in on to address the clipping I'm seeing
  3. I feel as though my gamma gain needs refinement. Is there any series of test patterns that will allow me to calibrate the individual gain detail adjustment options that the Panasonic allows me to do? TIn the pro settings of the Panasonic ZT60, I can go into gamma gain settings in increments of 10 (10, 20, 30...100). I don't, however see . I don't see any way on the v2 disc to test each of those increments to see if I nailed them with the right settings.
  4. Is there any other advice that you would give me?

My signal chain right now consists of: Oppo BDP-83 to an Anthem AVM50v preamp to the Panasonic ZT60.

I love the products that you and Don have put together. I have found the discs to be a huge help to me and I look forward to your insights and suggestions on how I can continue to maximize the discs for my setup.

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post #724 of 748 Old 09-23-2014, 01:41 PM
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Thank you for the feedback. I have asked Tyler to respond because he has a lot of VT60 experience. I had a VT20, but got rid of it over a year ago. On it, I really had to turn contrast way down to not clip. You might not want to lose that much light output and so you may need to make a compromise. I know someone else going through this with his ZT60.
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post #725 of 748 Old 09-23-2014, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears View Post
Thank you for the feedback. I have asked Tyler to respond because he has a lot of VT60 experience. I had a VT20, but got rid of it over a year ago. On it, I really had to turn contrast way down to not clip. You might not want to lose that much light output and so you may need to make a compromise. I know someone else going through this with his ZT60.
Thanks a ton Stacey!

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post #726 of 748 Old 10-14-2014, 11:54 AM
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Congratulations on your new assignment with SpectraCal, Stacey! A good company just got better.
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post #727 of 748 Old 10-14-2014, 12:41 PM
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Thank You.
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post #728 of 748 Old 10-17-2014, 03:04 PM
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I picked up the S&M disc. Which test pattern can I use to test for moire, the picture looks a bit jumpy on pans, more so when camera pans up or down.

Edit: I have the Samsung 1080p OLED display and Oppo 105 BD player.

Last edited by Pres2play; 10-17-2014 at 03:11 PM.
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post #729 of 748 Old 10-17-2014, 05:37 PM
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Not sure I understand the question on testing for moire.


Which picture looks a bit jumpy? All movies? Content on the disc? 24p content will judder as it pans since it is such a low framerate. The ASC has rules on how fast you can actually pan a camera.
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post #730 of 748 Old 10-17-2014, 07:15 PM
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Actually, I see it on the Lighthouse demo, as the camera pans up the tower. Its a slow shot so was a bit surprised to see this.
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post #731 of 748 Old 10-17-2014, 07:18 PM
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That's in the source. The panning speed was fast given how much was in focus.
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post #732 of 748 Old 10-17-2014, 08:08 PM
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Thanks for that info, the demo images are certainly beautiful.

I've been calibrating a few months now and I need all the help I can get understanding the patterns on the Spears & Munsil disc. Besides the Pattern Help Text, 2nd Edition, is there additional material for beginners like myself? The Color Space Evaluation article is a great example. I was able to follow along and determine the chroma upsampling on my display and player.
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post #733 of 748 Old 10-18-2014, 03:58 PM
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All the articles on the website and text on the disc is all that we have. Is there something in particular you would like to know more about?


We have articles for all the basic user settings. Gamut, Gamma, and white balance really need a meter. If you have can use a 3D LUT, then you really need an automated pattern generator. I have been playing around with the Lumagen a lot lately and I really like it. I am using the Mini for a 24" 1080p TV in my kitchen. Yes, I you read that right. :-) I would like to get the 17-point capable Lumagen for my theater and maybe another mini for my bedroom.


Best,


Stacey
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post #734 of 748 Old 10-18-2014, 09:38 PM
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Thanks, just getting comfortable with the disc. Looks amazing. Can't wait to calibrate my set this week. Which do you recommend: Equal Energy windows or regular box?
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post #735 of 748 Old 10-20-2014, 04:28 AM
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I have the S&M 2nd edition and think it is a fantastic disc

My question is
Using my Panasonic AE3000 LED projector
Even using the x3 filter when setting colour I can only get Red to go black, I cannot get the Yellow and Green to disappear.
There is no CMS
In the advanced menu I can adjust Gamma High, Medium and Low, Individual RGB Contrast and Individual RGB Brightness.
Checking the clipping pattern the colour space is 709

Any suggestions or thoughts appreciated?

Regards
Andy
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post #736 of 748 Old 10-25-2014, 04:19 PM
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Guys I do hope someone here can help me!


Ive spent weeks and weeks trying to resolve this issue and to date no one has been able to help me.


I have all my 500+ BDs playing through my HTPC with XBMC Gotham.


Ive tried for weeks to get my copy of S&M 2 to play through the XBMC so I can calibrate and test my settings but its been an impossible journey.
Ive tried every converter etc etc etc....but nothing will give me the complete disc with all the menus intact.
I use MakeMKV for all my BDs, but this and everything else I have tried is hopeless for the S&M2 disc.


I use the disc in both my Oppos but as you know calibrating them and taking across the results to the HTPC is useless.


Can someone help me please?


I was about to go out and buy a BD reader to add to the HTPC but Ive been told even they don't play via XBMC
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post #737 of 748 Old 10-25-2014, 05:27 PM
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Hi Murray, I don't have an answer to your question, but I have a question regarding what you are trying to do. As far as I know, it is your projector that needs to be calibrated. When you use your Oppo to calibrate the projector, isn't that "enough"? I am not a HTPC user, so I don't understand what it is about a HTPC that needs to be calibrated. Can you enlighten me?
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post #738 of 748 Old 10-25-2014, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Hi Murray, I don't have an answer to your question, but I have a question regarding what you are trying to do. As far as I know, it is your projector that needs to be calibrated. When you use your Oppo to calibrate the projector, isn't that "enough"? I am not a HTPC user, so I don't understand what it is about a HTPC that needs to be calibrated. Can you enlighten me?

Jerry, when you set brightness/contrast on the Lumagen etc etc with the Oppos to the projector using S&M 2 that's simple.


But you cant transfer those same settings across to a media centre, they are incorrect and clipping will occur.


This is no different to using S&M on a BD player and saving those settings, they again would not necessarily be correct when viewing satellite TV.


The S&M disc needs to be played via the source to make the correct settings in the display or in my case the Lumagen.


I need to be able to play the S&M disc someway via the HTPC using XBMC and Gotham, I cant do this....
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post #739 of 748 Old 10-25-2014, 05:48 PM
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Spears & Munsil HD Benchmark Blu-Ray 2nd Edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post
Jerry, when you set brightness/contrast on the Lumagen etc etc with the Oppos to the projector using S&M 2 that's simple.


But you cant transfer those same settings across to a media centre, they are incorrect and clipping will occur.


This is no different to using S&M on a BD player and saving those settings, they again would not necessarily be correct when viewing satellite TV.


The S&M disc needs to be played via the source to make the correct settings in the display or in my case the Lumagen.


I need to be able to play the S&M disc someway via the HTPC using XBMC and Gotham, I cant do this....

Not sure on the "copy" rules for the disc but instead of an MKV you'll need to make a 1:1 ISO which should work for your needs.

Either that or using an external BR player and software to play back the disc. XBMC dosent need to be used as it is more the PC input that would need to be calibrated to not the software being used to playback the content.


Sent from an system/360

Last edited by Ph8te; 10-25-2014 at 05:57 PM.
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post #740 of 748 Old 10-25-2014, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post
Thanks for that info, the demo images are certainly beautiful.

I've been calibrating a few months now and I need all the help I can get understanding the patterns on the Spears & Munsil disc. Besides the Pattern Help Text, 2nd Edition, is there additional material for beginners like myself? The Color Space Evaluation article is a great example. I was able to follow along and determine the chroma upsampling on my display and player.

Just saw on the disc this pattern is for projectors only. Does that mean it won't help those with a flat panel determine the best HDMI color space between the source and the set?
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post #741 of 748 Old 10-30-2014, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post
Just saw on the disc this pattern is for projectors only. Does that mean it won't help those with a flat panel determine the best HDMI color space between the source and the set?
Where does it say that it is for projectors only?
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post #742 of 748 Old 11-03-2014, 01:29 AM
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Originally Posted by rickardl View Post
Where does it say that it is for projectors only?

My mistake. I misunderstood the help information provided in the Chroma Alignment pattern on the disc.


...This test can be thrown off by panel misalignment or Chromatic aberration. These artifacts can only happen on a projector, either front or rear...
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post #743 of 748 Old 11-03-2014, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thxtheater View Post
Dear Stacey,

Frist of all, I've been a big fan of the calibration discs you and Don have created. I've been an avid user since I got the version 1 disc with my Oppo BDP83 many years ago.

I recently upgraded to v2 of HD benchmarks because my red and blues and blacks were clipping and I needed better patterns to debug what's what. I'm using a Panasonic VT60 display and I'm calibrating for a late-night, almost black room that does have equipment light and some outdoor ambient light from a door preventing complete black.

I need some advice and guidance on how to best approach the clipping I'm seeing.

When I go to the Advanced Video Evaluation menu, I see that the Red, Blue, and Black are clipping.

Here's what I've done: I ran several passes with the calibration disc. I then used D-Nice's settings for the Panasonic ZT60 display (see post #4 at: 2013 Panasonic Settings/Issues Thread) These settings really helped the red and blue clipping quite a bit but I'm still experiencing some clipping in red and blue and my black is still clipping. When I watch the demo material or a movie, I find that bright scenes are picture perfect but the early morning demo material on the disc or dusk scenes don't look great. Everything to my eyes looks like it lacks the proper contrast and looks muted.

Here then are my questions:
  1. What patterns are best to determine the clipping
  2. What TV settings should I focus in on to address the clipping I'm seeing
  3. I feel as though my gamma gain needs refinement. Is there any series of test patterns that will allow me to calibrate the individual gain detail adjustment options that the Panasonic allows me to do? TIn the pro settings of the Panasonic ZT60, I can go into gamma gain settings in increments of 10 (10, 20, 30...100). I don't, however see . I don't see any way on the v2 disc to test each of those increments to see if I nailed them with the right settings.
  4. Is there any other advice that you would give me?
My signal chain right now consists of: Oppo BDP-83 to an Anthem AVM50v preamp to the Panasonic ZT60.

I love the products that you and Don have put together. I have found the discs to be a huge help to me and I look forward to your insights and suggestions on how I can continue to maximize the discs for my setup.
Ted's Lightspace LUT calibration disc is great for setting brightness levels down low and for evaluating clipping near black. Look for Connectedd here in the calibration forums, the info is in his signature.

Gamma should only be adjusted using a meter.

Senior Video Editor
Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity

Click Here To See My Current Setup
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post #744 of 748 Old 11-04-2014, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by sspears View Post
We might see some content delivered as 10-bit before the end of the year using HEVC.

On the Xbox One, 8-bit RGB is delivered to the HDMI transmitter. If you are outputting 36-bit, it is padded with zeros just before output. No actual processing is done at >8-bit. Xbox One's Blu-ray player is a matter of convenience only. A standalone Blu-ray player is better. I worked on the Xbox One, so I know the internals of the entire video pipeline.
I find this a bit disappointing. Can you expound on this a little? I was hoping to use a new Xbox One as my primary media player. But if it has some kind of issue I don't want to sacrifice performance...
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post #745 of 748 Old 11-05-2014, 12:27 PM
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Xbox can't composite in YCbCr so it must convert to RGB to composite. They don't allow output other than RGB.


I am using an Xbox One for Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, and Xbox Marketplace. I use an OPPO for Blu-ray.
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post #746 of 748 Old 11-16-2014, 05:37 PM
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As a complete newb to doing a real calibration where do I start reading so that I can use the Advanced Video Settings? I've recently purchased a Samsung PN60F5300 and would really like to get things dialed in. I've run through the basic settings and gotten things dialed in pretty good there but I'm seeing some clipping in the the colors. I'm ready to try and start dialing in some of the more specific color settings. Not looking for anyone to give me step by step for the advanced settings just send me in the right direction. Thanks a lot!
Bryan
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post #747 of 748 Old 11-16-2014, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trailjunkee View Post
As a complete newb to doing a real calibration where do I start reading so that I can use the Advanced Video Settings? I've recently purchased a Samsung PN60F5300 and would really like to get things dialed in. I've run through the basic settings and gotten things dialed in pretty good there but I'm seeing some clipping in the the colors. I'm ready to try and start dialing in some of the more specific color settings. Not looking for anyone to give me step by step for the advanced settings just send me in the right direction. Thanks a lot!

Bryan

Start with the stickies at the top of the forum.


Sent from an system/360
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post #748 of 748 Old 11-16-2014, 09:46 PM
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I would also read all of the articles on our website. From there you can ask questions. Feel free to ask as many as you want.
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