Spears & Munsil HD Benchmark Blu-Ray 2nd Edition - Page 29 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #841 of 854 Old 03-02-2015, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
^ Are you a professional calibrator? Sounds like you are trying to drum up some business. As I said earlier, I check my LED display periodically, and I have not noticed any drift. Maybe I have quality components...
I'm a semi-retired Senior who keeps the 6 TVs in the house up to snuff.
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post #842 of 854 Old 08-13-2015, 05:41 PM
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When setting speaker levels with a spl meter or calibrated usb mic like my UMIK-1, do I want bass management on the speakers on or off and why?
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post #843 of 854 Old 08-31-2015, 04:02 PM
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Looks like this thread has lost support
I wonder if any users have used the S&M 2nd edition to check channel level balance.
No matter how many calibrations I do my centre channel always reads about +4db hot using the disc
Using the AVR test tones 75db
So is this an error on the disc or should I reduce the centre level to read 75db as per the rest on the disc?
Andy
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post #844 of 854 Old 08-31-2015, 04:13 PM
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Looks like this thread has lost support
I wonder if any users have used the S&M 2nd edition to check channel level balance.
No matter how many calibrations I do my centre channel always reads about +4db hot using the disc
Using the AVR test tones 75db
So is this an error on the disc or should I reduce the centre level to read 75db as per the rest on the disc?
Andy
You cant rely on the test tones from an AVR after you have done an EQ with it, the levels will often show incorrectly. You have to use an outside source like REW/XTZ or a disc like you are using. Also remember a lot of spl meters don't read correctly true, can be + or - 3db out. Just use the disc and set the levels all the same.
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post #845 of 854 Old 08-31-2015, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post
You cant rely on the test tones from an AVR after you have done an EQ with it, the levels will often show incorrectly. You have to use an outside source like REW/XTZ or a disc like you are using. Also remember a lot of spl meters don't read correctly true, can be + or - 3db out. Just use the disc and set the levels all the same.
Yes, and if I may add. Don't just get any SPL meter get one thats been verified/calibrated and comes with a report of its performance.

I purchased one from here: http://www.cross-spectrum.com/measur...ted_cm140.html

and am happy with services from cross-spectrum


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post #846 of 854 Old 08-31-2015, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by W3Rman View Post
Yes, and if I may add. Don't just get any SPL meter get one thats been verified/calibrated and comes with a report of its performance.

I purchased one from here: http://www.cross-spectrum.com/measur...ted_cm140.html

and am happy with services from cross-spectrum


Yes this is exactly the one I have also, but recently started to use the SLP meter from my XTZ which I find much easier and quicker to use, I also think its even more accurate.

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post #847 of 854 Old 08-31-2015, 04:33 PM
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Thanks for the reply but I thought my post was clear enough, to recap
Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post
You cant rely on the test tones from an AVR after you have done an EQ with it, the levels will often show incorrectly.
Agreed that is why I am using a SPL meter and supposed calibrated S&M disc which is showing a +4db error on the centre channel.

With that said using AVR test tones (which by the way bypass Audyssey) all channels read equal +/-

Even having an error a SPL meter will read the same on all channels.
The SPL meter has been cross checked and the results are reliable.

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Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post
Just use the disc and set the levels all the same.
Pretty pointless if there is a 4db error on the centre channel recording compared to the rest.
So again has anyone found an error on the centre channel using the S&M disc
Andy
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post #848 of 854 Old 08-31-2015, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Lesmor View Post
Thanks for the reply but I thought my post was clear enough, to recap

Agreed that is why I am using a SPL meter and supposed calibrated S&M disc which is showing a +4db error on the centre channel.

With that said using AVR test tones (which by the way bypass Audyssey) all channels read equal +/-

Even having an error a SPL meter will read the same on all channels.
The SPL meter has been cross checked and the results are reliable.


Pretty pointless if there is a 4db error on the centre channel recording compared to the rest.
So again has anyone found an error on the centre channel using the S&M disc
Andy

I don't believe you are right, when I used my S&M, both versions, that didn't show on my discs. You have something else wrong.....

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post #849 of 854 Old 08-31-2015, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lesmor View Post




With that said using AVR test tones (which by the way bypass Audyssey) all channels read equal +/-



Andy
There's your problem, you don't want to bypass Audyssey!
You first set your levels with EQ on, so that's why you never check levels with the test tone from the AVR, it by passes your set levels. Using the disc is precisely why people never use the test tones for checking levels. Make sure EQ is set to on when you measure with the disc.


Sometimes if your mic and the centre channel is dead centre of the room the level might be set incorrect from the EQ, hence the reason to check with the S&M disc and a good calibrated SPL meter.


You will also get a very different reading if you have a different centre channel to the L and R. My three front speakers are identical and each is always set identical at 75db.

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Last edited by RapalloAV; 08-31-2015 at 04:46 PM.
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post #850 of 854 Old 08-31-2015, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W3Rman View Post
Yes, and if I may add. Don't just get any SPL meter get one thats been verified/calibrated and comes with a report of its performance.

I purchased one from here: http://www.cross-spectrum.com/measur...ted_cm140.html

and am happy with services from cross-spectrum

Certainly for absolute accuracy
But even a SPL meter out of calibration by 10db will read the same on whatever channel you measure
e.g An AVR test tone outputs 75db, out of cal meter measures 65db
In my situation with that same meter the Left speaker will read 65db Centre channel 69db the meter cannot be blamed for the error.
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post #851 of 854 Old 08-31-2015, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post
There's your problem, you don't want to bypass Audyssey!
You first set your levels with EQ on, so that's why you never check levels with the test tone from the AVR, it by passes your set levels. Using the disc is precisely why people never use the test tones for checking levels. Make sure EQ is set to on when you measure with the disc.


Sometimes if your mic and the centre channel is dead centre of the room the level might be set incorrect from the EQ, hence the reason to check with the S&M disc and a good calibrated SPL meter.


You will also get a very different reading if you have a different centre channel to the L and R. My three front speakers are identical and each is always set identical at 75db.
My you must think I'm stupid 20 years of home cinema hopefully I learned something along the way
of course I check the disc with the EQ on that's the whole point of the exercise.

But you do need to switch DEQ Off

Point of order the AVR test tones bypass Audyssey so should not be used to confirm Audyssey levels, but can be used as a reference for SPL meter and any obvious channel level errors.

All my L/C/R are identical speakers AVR tones measure 75db therefore balanced
S&M Disc L/R 75db balanced, centre 79db a 4db error

So if you are saying using the S&M disc you measured your L/C/R with an SPL meter and all they all read balanced then I can discount the disc and need to look elsewhere.

By the way XTZ SPL readings are not accurate.
Andy

Last edited by Lesmor; 08-31-2015 at 05:10 PM.
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post #852 of 854 Old 08-31-2015, 05:17 PM
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FWIW, I have used S&M ver 2 audio test tones to check my post-calibration levels many times, Audyssey on, DEQ off. In my experience, the speaker output levels are very comsistent, and I have never measured a 4dB difference for the center channel. So I would say that, based on my experience, there is nothing wrong with the S&M test tones.

Forgot to mention, I am measuring using CSL UMIK-1 with the REW SPL meter.
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post #853 of 854 Old 08-31-2015, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
FWIW, I have used S&M ver 2 audio test tones to check my post-calibration levels many times, Audyssey on, DEQ off. In my experience, the speaker output levels are very comsistent, and I have never measured a 4dB difference for the center channel. So I would say that, based on my experience, there is nothing wrong with the S&M test tones.

Forgot to mention, I am measuring using CSL UMIK-1 with the REW SPL meter.
Agree,

I just got done doing a test of the SPL output from a Denon AVR using its built in test tones and then comparing the results against the output of SPL levels from the S&M disk. There is no discrepancy for me and my gear, they both display the same results.

I am happy that this has given me a reason use the disk.

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post #854 of 854 Old 09-01-2015, 02:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
FWIW, I have used S&M ver 2 audio test tones to check my post-calibration levels many times, Audyssey on, DEQ off. In my experience, the speaker output levels are very comsistent, and I have never measured a 4dB difference for the center channel. So I would say that, based on my experience, there is nothing wrong with the S&M test tones.

Forgot to mention, I am measuring using CSL UMIK-1 with the REW SPL meter.
Thanks Jerry
and also to all who have replied and confirmed the accuracy of the S&M disc.

The benefit of the discussions with other members is that you can re asses the reason why there is a discrepancy.

I can now put down the error to be a problem in how my centre speaker is being measured
which I will later confirm by swapping speaker cables from my centre speaker to the left speaker and try the disc again.

Although all 3 L/C/R speakers are exactly the same it has occurred to me that by design the centre speaker is orientated horizontally.

This for some reason is being measured and calibrated louder by Audyssey
Cables have been checked and it is not a phase issue.

This is the beauty of having a product like S&M to confirm levels and reduce the centre speaker trim with confidence.

As the saying goes believe but verify.

Thanks again to all respondents

Andy
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