Spears & Munsil HD Benchmark Blu-Ray 2nd Edition - Page 31 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 07-25-2016, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rimo View Post
I would set the brightness (black level) first. Also, what is your source blu-ray player?
Thanks for the reply

Yeah its a LG Blu-Ray Player
I have no problems setting the black levels but no matter what setting i can't get the contrast black bars to show up even after the black levels are set there still not showing up

Any suggestions ?

Last edited by kram1; 07-25-2016 at 09:41 PM.
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Old 07-26-2016, 01:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by kram1 View Post
I could use some help here just got a new set the 2016 Sony XBR43X800D and grabbed a copy of above Spears & Munsil 2 to try and calibrate and right away I'm having some difficulty trying to set up the contrast first setting on the video
I've trying every possible setting and adjustment on the set and BR player and the inside bars are not really visible as you can see in the below picture
Maybe not compatible with the newer sets ?
Hi, what's your source player output settings?

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Old 07-26-2016, 02:38 AM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi, what's your source player output settings?
Tried both these below settings coming off the LG BR player they don't make a different
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Old 07-26-2016, 03:16 AM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi, what's your source player output settings?
But shouldn't contrast and luminosity set from the display instead of from the source player?
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Old 07-26-2016, 03:20 AM
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But shouldn't contrast and luminosity set from the display instead of from the source player?

Yeah all setting are adjusted from with in the display he just asked what my source player output settings were is all
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Old 07-26-2016, 05:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreMo View Post
But shouldn't contrast and luminosity set from the display instead of from the source player?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kram1 View Post
Yeah all setting are adjusted from with in the display he just asked what my source player output settings were is all
Yes, adjustments from the display only, from player disable any enhancement mode. Check and disable the enhancements from the display also. What do you see having the your display contrast slider at default position?

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Old 07-26-2016, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Yes, adjustments from the display only, from player disable any enhancement mode. Check and disable the enhancements from the display also. What do you see having the your display contrast slider at default position?

All my display and player enhancements are turned off but on or off or in default after a reset which I've done many many times the contrast bars will not show up at all
In the picture i posted thats after I've made the best possible adjustment u can almost see just a small hint of 231 -233
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Old 07-26-2016, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kram1 View Post
All my display and player enhancements are turned off but on or off or in default after a reset which I've done many many times the contrast bars will not show up at all
In the picture i posted thats after I've made the best possible adjustment u can almost see just a small hint of 231 -233
The correct setting for your Blu-ray player will be YCbCr. This sends the signal in video level. You may want to check your display settings for 'limited' or 'video' mode and make sure you do not have it connected to any PC specific input.

Your display may also accept RGB, but you would need to put it into a 'wide' mode or something similar. To start, just make sure you are in video or limited mode.

YCbCr should be able to display 16-235 while the RGB can display 0-255. If you are sending RGB to a 'limited' display, you will have issues with the black level.

Also, some displays will clip whites above 235. This can be disabled with a 'super white' or similar display mode. I have never owned a sony display so I am not sure if it is available to you.

In any case, set to limited, set black level so that 17 and above are flashing, and then work on contrast. Make sure your gamma is not set too low, choose a mode like 'cinema' or movie if available.

Let me know if this helps, or maybe send some screenshots of the display image settings.

Good Luck!
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Old 07-26-2016, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kram1 View Post
I could use some help here just got a new set the 2016 Sony XBR43X800D and grabbed a copy of above Spears & Munsil 2 to try and calibrate and right away I'm having some difficulty trying to set up the contrast first setting on the video
I've trying every possible setting and adjustment on the set and BR player and the inside bars are not really visible as you can see in the below picture
Maybe not compatible with the newer sets ?
FWIW, I have the Sony XBR75X940D, and when I bring up the Contrast test screen, I can see the all the numbered white bars up to 252, and I see the dots in the center of the color squares at the bottom of the test screen. As a reference point, I have Brightness set to 35, Contrast to 88, and Black Level at 50.

I am using an Oppo BDP 103 with HDMI output set to Auto.

I don't understand why you are having trouble with the Contrast test screen on SM2.
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Old 07-26-2016, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
FWIW, I have the Sony XBR75X940D, and when I bring up the Contrast test screen, I can see the all the numbered white bars up to 252, and I see the dots in the center of the color squares at the bottom of the test screen. As a reference point, I have Brightness set to 35, Contrast to 88, and Black Level at 50.

I am using an Oppo BDP 103 with HDMI output set to Auto.

I don't understand why you are having trouble with the Contrast test screen on SM2.
I think the XBR-43X800D is a completely different animal then X940D. The X8000D using some cheap IPS panel I can't see any of the black bars with your settings also
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Old 09-23-2016, 10:22 PM
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Is there a test on the S&M disk that reveals ghosting (2D, not 3D)?
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Old 09-23-2016, 11:21 PM
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2D Ghosting? Like blooming from zone based back lighting?

The only ghosting test we have is for 3D. The UHD HDR BD will have some tests for zone based backlighting. Thats a year away though. Hard at work in porting the 8-bit to 10-bit 4:2:0 at the moment. Almost have all of the code ported. Then need to work on some of the new patterns we have planned.

Taking requests at this time.
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Old 09-24-2016, 02:32 AM
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Stacey, a request:

On the Audio/Visual timing patterns, which I hope you will once again include, please use a full-screen flash, rather than top/bottom bars seen on S&M2. When reading reflected light from a projector screen a full-screen flash would help ensure enough light gets to calibration hardware (e.g., Syncheck/Sync One2) devices. With the current S&M2, I sometimes struggle to throw enough light to trigger the hardware, depending on how much my bulb has dimmed at the time of such calibrations.

Also, if possible, please offer various audio codecs (PCM/TrueHD/DTS-Master/DD) as there can be different a/v delays depending on the audio codec used.

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Old 09-24-2016, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by sspears View Post
2D Ghosting? Like blooming from zone based back lighting?

The only ghosting test we have is for 3D. The UHD HDR BD will have some tests for zone based backlighting. Thats a year away though. Hard at work in porting the 8-bit to 10-bit 4:2:0 at the moment. Almost have all of the code ported. Then need to work on some of the new patterns we have planned.

Taking requests at this time.
In the discussion forum for my display, "ghosting" is used to describe the effect of when a dark object moves quickly across a bright background, leaving a trail of images behind as it moves. Think of a hockey puck moving across the ice, leaving a trail.
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Old 09-24-2016, 08:40 AM
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OK, I found a pretty good test for the effect I am talking about. It is in the Video Processing section under the Motion tab. While watching the 48PPF Resulution test, I can see some faint "trails" as the burst moves back and forth. The trails are unaffected by any motion control settings on the display (which are normally set to Off). The trails I am seeing are not obvious enough that they would be visible on normal content, so for that I am relieved.
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Old 09-24-2016, 01:59 PM
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Hi Mark,

Yes, planning on adding an alternate A/V sync pattern for a device designed to measure A/V sync. Thank you for the feedback.

The current AV sync is available in both DTS-HD MA and TrueHD lossless. Planning to also support Atmos and the DTS equivalent on the next disc as well. Have not looked into at this time though, so I don't know what I can and can't do with the Atmos style audio yet.

No plans to support PCM at all. Its such a huge waste of disc space. We wanted to include the Montage in both Dolby and DTS, but we ran out of disc space on a single layer disc, which is why the montage is only in DTS-HD MA. I felt bad as I have always had a good relationship with Meridian and wanted to include TrueHD. Since I had to make a choice, I had to go with DTS since it was the dominate audio format on BD at the time.

Will probably include SDR and HDR A/V sync, in case that matters. Only planning on UHD, but if enough people want it, I could also include 1080p on the AV sync. There will be no interlaced on the next disc, of course, so no inverse telecine test content. There will be scaling patterns at the various resolution.

Will be looking into FALD type of tests. Not sure on it yet.

On the current disc, we use the left eye for 2D. I can't use HDR to make SDR on the next disc. At least for test patterns, its not the right thing to do. Not sure if I can have an SDR/HDR option like I do for 2D/3D or if I need to make it two discs with one SDR and the other HDR. Then for SDR, 709 or 2020 for UHD? I am planning 2020 for SDR, but would like to know what people think for UHD SDR.

There will be other discs out before ours, but we want to try and get it right. Still so much to understand on HDR. Biggie is metadata. Since it is hard coded, I need to figure out what levels I should target. e.g. 1000 nits, 4000 nits, 10,000 nits. Its all so complicated.

I have already started adding a place holder to our pattern generator to sepcify HDR or SDR. This mostly changes the levels. e.g. The image cropping pattern today uses 50% gray for the background and 100% white for the markers. The HDR version will actually use 50 nits for the background and 100 nits for the markers. A lot of basic patterns will be like this. I will use 100 nits in place of 100% for various things.

The SDR window patterns will be equal energy. The HDR window patterns will not be equal energy. They will be 10% area window on a black background. This goes back to the two disc possibility, which can get expensive. Still want to target 29.97 as the price point. Next price would be 59.94. I like to use video frame rates as the price. 23.98 is too cheap. I think 59.94 is too much and 29.97 might not be enough either. Won't know B.O.M. cost until we actually get everything authored.

To give you an idea, we spent just over $30k on authoring alone with the 3D disc. Since I encoded 99% of the disc, that was simply my time. When HD DVD and BD first started, encoding was around $100 a run time minute. That was just encoding. So a 90-minute movie was around $9k just to encode the main feature. I don't know if they charged for segment re-encoding or not. No idea what they charge for UHD encoding or authoring yet.
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Old 02-04-2017, 01:32 AM
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I'm playing this Bluray using a PS4 connected to an LG 65UH615A. This display has color filters built into the expert controls for red, green, and blue. But the filters don't work 100%. When I use the blue filter with the "color and tint" pattern, the red, yellow, and green boxes are still barely visible, I'm guessing around 3 intensity%. Same thing applies with the red and green filters on the corresponding patterns.

I ripped the disc to an ISO, and play it using Kodi, connected to the same display, and now the filters work perfectly, making the boxes completely black. Any idea why this is happening? I've tried both with and without my Onkyo receiver connected, but that doesn't make a difference.
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Old 02-06-2017, 11:32 PM
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Whats a descent user friendly easy to use novice hardware calibration meter worth getting for basic TV and monitor calibration ?

Last edited by kram1; 02-07-2017 at 12:05 AM.
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Old 02-07-2017, 07:31 AM
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Whats a descent user friendly easy to use novice hardware calibration meter worth getting for basic TV and monitor calibration ?
I recommend browsing the meter/software bundles available from Spectracal.com. Their site also has a wealth of technical papers and tutorials covering display calibration techniques.
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Old 02-13-2017, 12:09 PM
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I'm still only on page 16, so this may have been covered, but:

I've calibrated my TV in several different modes using the AVSHD disc. I wanted to calibrate the 3D mode with this, but I can't seem to find 5-IRE windows. Are there any? Is there a way to do a 20p-point calibration at 10-IRE steps?

I had a quick go at setting peak white, and even with red and blue at their minimum setting they were still too high. Evidently the glasses are very purple? Is there a standard way of handling this?
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Old 02-13-2017, 06:47 PM
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tHANK YOUI SIR
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Old 02-13-2017, 06:48 PM
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Is this worth it?
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Old 02-14-2017, 02:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koberulz View Post
I'm still only on page 16, so this may have been covered, but:

I've calibrated my TV in several different modes using the AVSHD disc. I wanted to calibrate the 3D mode with this, but I can't seem to find 5-IRE windows. Are there any? Is there a way to do a 20p-point calibration at 10-IRE steps?

I had a quick go at setting peak white, and even with red and blue at their minimum setting they were still too high. Evidently the glasses are very purple? Is there a standard way of handling this?
Hi,

Spears & Munsil v1 don't have patterns for Grayscale measurements.
Spears & Munsil v2 has patterns for 11-Point Grayscale only.

You can use your AVSHD disk and just select from your display to convert the 2D -> 3D

About your problem with setting peak white, measure all available temperature modes and use the one that you see that requires less adjustments. If you see that you don't have enough color from one of the RGB channels then try to reduce Contrast.

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Old 02-14-2017, 09:23 AM
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Well, I managed to get dEs 0.2 or lower from 100 down to 85. Had to adjust green as well as red and blue to get there, though.

Below that, it's a mess. 80 IRE is 97.1% red, 94.7% green, and 95.7% blue for a dE of 1.8. That's with the smallest possible amount of red, highest possible amount of green, and maximum luminance adjustment. 75 is 109.9% red, 110.6% green and 110.4% blue for a dE of 3.1. That's with adjustment luminance at its lowest possible value and green at its highest possible value. Down at 70, it's 104.5% red, 87.8% green, and 94.2% blue for a dE of 6.6, with maximum luminance, minimum red, maximum green and minimum blue.

How can it be so all over the place? My dE values are likely to hit 20 in a couple of IRE steps. One step is somehow way too bright and the next step is somehow incapable of getting anywhere near bright enough. Is there any hope of getting this looking anything other than awful?
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Old Yesterday, 04:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Whats a descent user friendly easy to use novice hardware calibration meter worth getting for basic TV and monitor calibration ?
Hi, any calibration software you will choose can provide you nearly the same end results, for calibration using your display/projector internal calibration controls. The differences will be to layout interface/workflow.

The difference of free software vs. paid software is the customer support (and supported hardware). If you choose free software (like HCFR) there no guides (up-to-date), no manual and support will come from other users if you post a question to HCFR thread (and some experienced users may reply) or by searching already posted questions/topics.

Paid software has manual, guides, customer support via email/forum from each company.

The Free DPS version of LightSpace CMS can be used also, there available to read various guides on the Light Illusion website.

The specific guide for use with LightSpace DPS is here.

BTW look these links for additional useful info:

http://www.tlvexp.ca/

Video Calibration From The Inside - Volume I - 2nd Edition-1

http://chromapure.com/demos.asp

http://chromapure.com/ChromaPureManual.pdf

http://www.spectracal.com/downloads/...n%20How-To.pdf

http://calman.spectracal.com/user-guides.html

http://calman.spectracal.com/webinars.html

https://www.youtube.com/user/SpectraCal

http://lightillusion.com/why_calibrate.html

http://lightillusion.com/delta-e.html

http://lightillusion.com/manual_cali...ots_guide.html

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Old Yesterday, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koberulz View Post
Well, I managed to get dEs 0.2 or lower from 100 down to 85. Had to adjust green as well as red and blue to get there, though.

Below that, it's a mess. 80 IRE is 97.1% red, 94.7% green, and 95.7% blue for a dE of 1.8. That's with the smallest possible amount of red, highest possible amount of green, and maximum luminance adjustment.
I suggest you first try using the 2-pt control, before getting into 20-pt.

If you do want to use 20-pt, make sure you do a complete sweep (i.e., measure all 20 points) after each adjustment; do not monitor only the point you're adjusting. For the initial adjustments, it's much easier to use HCFR's automatic patterns. You can use the disc patterns for verification afterwards.

Last edited by Dominic Chan; Yesterday at 06:23 AM.
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Old Yesterday, 06:47 AM
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I can't get my laptop to display accurately, so the HCFR patterns are out. High affects low far more than low affects high, so I've been adjusting from 100 down to 5, then sweeping from 5 back up to 100 when doing my 2D modes (which helpfully gets the disc back to 100 to sweep down adjusting again). I only got down to 70 and then gave up with the 3D mode because the values were so far out.

I did copy the white balance values from the equivalent 2D mode, figuring that would give me a base. Better off just zeroing everything then trying 2-point? What points should I use? I think there was a thread here where someone was saying to use 5 and 100, but most people seem to use 20 or 30 and 70 or 80?
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Old Yesterday, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koberulz View Post
I did copy the white balance values from the equivalent 2D mode, figuring that would give me a base. Better off just zeroing everything then trying 2-point? What points should I use? I think there was a thread here where someone was saying to use 5 and 100, but most people seem to use 20 or 30 and 70 or 80?
20 or 30 are in the middle of the low range and 70 or 80 are in the middle of the high range. If you're only using 2-pt control, those IREs are intended to get the overall greyscale close to D65, but you must always do a complete sweep to confirm.

I've been advocating 5/100 in cases where the 2-pt is supplemented by 10- or 20-pt, which will take care of the in-between points. Note, however, some older LG TVs ignore the 2-pt settings when you switch to 20-pt.
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Old Yesterday, 11:36 AM
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I reset to defaults and tried again. First tested the OLED light for peak white output, and found it lacking at barely 29ftL with the OLED light at 100. Had to drop Brightness from the default 50 down to 39 just to get the black to be black, and it seems like it's still a bit high based on the AVSH black clipping pattern: 16 is invisible but 17 is quite clear. That's wearing the glasses.

Ran through 5% and 100% a couple of times in 2-point white balance, then ran a sweep. Decent results, nothing over 3.8 dE. But 100 IRE was now down to 25ftL. Tried using the adjusting luminance to bump it back up and with AL maxed out it was still 25ftL. I tried swinging it all the way to minimum...still 25ftL. Red was barely affected by maxing that out, and then setting it to its lowest value. Basically like I was calibrating a point two or three points away from what I was measuring. But I wasn't; I had a 100 IRE pattern up, I was measuring 100 IRE in HCFR, and I was adjusting the 100 IRE parameters.

I got to 30ftL easy on my last go-through, with OLED light, from memory, in the 80s. No way was brightness that low, either, it has to be up around 50 without glasses on. I have no idea what's going on.
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Old Yesterday, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koberulz View Post
Ran through 5% and 100% a couple of times in 2-point white balance, then ran a sweep. Decent results, nothing over 3.8 dE. But 100 IRE was now down to 25ftL.
Adjusting 2-pt WB should not make a big difference in the luminance. Try not to touch green.
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