Can someone lend me their Chromapure with auto calibrate? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 66 Old 12-27-2012, 03:05 AM - Thread Starter
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I purchased chromapure package with dvdo duo from Tom 2 weeks ago. I just got my hardware with xrite display 3 pro but I got no software to play with because Tom has disappeared on a camping trip or something ??

I got all this nice gear sitting around whilst I am still on my Christmas break but I can't do anything about it as Tom has not send me any links to the chromapure software.

Is there anyway someone could pm me a link to their auto calibrate software as I am desperate to start playing with it.

Tom will get to me eventually but my holiday period is running out pronto so I am keen to start playing with my new toys whilst I can picture Tom camping...oh...I forgot its winter over there so no camping.
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post #2 of 66 Old 12-27-2012, 03:19 AM
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The software you can download from the website, the only thing you need from Tom is the license. You sure he didn't mail you the license? Spamfolder?
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post #3 of 66 Old 12-27-2012, 03:34 AM
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You'll need the licence for your particular meter anyway, so unless you have someone nearby willing to lend you their meter too, then it's a non starter I think. frown.gif I guess they did it this way to prevent piracy, so it's hard to blame them for it as otherwise someone would have a licence to download on some dodgy website...

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post #4 of 66 Old 12-27-2012, 03:56 AM - Thread Starter
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No. Tom has not sent it to me as yet. I shot off an email to him 13 hours ago but he did not reply so I am assuming that he is away on holiday. I also left him a telephone message but no reply so far.

Yeah I guessed just as much that the software is tied to the meter. I'll keep trying to hassle him for it.

I have been waiting to calibrate projector for 10 years but could not be bothered with sitting in the dark tweaking controls for hours. I immediately pulled the trigger once I saw auto calibrate in the chromapure demo page.

I think what Tom and Colman are doing are really cutting edge stuff. The problem with chromapure like what I am experiencing now is that Tom is the company so if he falls sick then the entire company is out until he recovers.
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post #5 of 66 Old 12-27-2012, 04:18 AM
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Bear in mind that there is still a small amount of sitting in the dark fiddling with the controls before you press the autocal button: To many people seem to think that you just plug the meter in and press go to achieve perfect result.

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post #6 of 66 Old 12-27-2012, 07:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Fair point kelvin. I understand that brightness and contrast have to be adjusted first before executing the auto calibration.

Now could someone who lives near Tom go wake him up and get him to send the software to me.: ) I am dying to try out this thing.

I'll provide feedback on before and after auto calibration. I hope it's not just a subtle incremental improvement I get pq wise otherwise it will be a very pricey incremental improvement. I am hoping for more depth and realism to be added to my viewing experience.

100% of my viewing is 1080p so most of the DVDo scaling features is useless to me. The only reason I bought the DVDo package is to reduce the amount of time I need to fumble around in the dark adjusting settings for 5 hours just to get greyscale, gamma and color looking good !
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post #7 of 66 Old 12-27-2012, 08:19 AM
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Did you take a real careful look at everything in the box? I mean to think that Tom would ship a meter to the other side of the world without the license key needed to use it would seems rather unlikely. Do you have only one email address, as it sounds like the license is sent via email.

Doug

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post #8 of 66 Old 12-27-2012, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airscapes View Post

Did you take a real careful look at everything in the box? I mean to think that Tom would ship a meter to the other side of the world without the license key needed to use it would seems rather unlikely. Do you have only one email address, as it sounds like the license is sent via email.

The licenses for me have always come by email. I got a license file yesterday from him for a meter I just aquired. He responded in a just a few hours.

Just another blank signature.
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post #9 of 66 Old 12-27-2012, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lyndonlim View Post

Fair point kelvin. I understand that brightness and contrast have to be adjusted first before executing the auto calibration.
Now could someone who lives near Tom go wake him up and get him to send the software to me.: ) I am dying to try out this thing.
I'll provide feedback on before and after auto calibration. I hope it's not just a subtle incremental improvement I get pq wise otherwise it will be a very pricey incremental improvement. I am hoping for more depth and realism to be added to my viewing experience.
100% of my viewing is 1080p so most of the DVDo scaling features is useless to me. The only reason I bought the DVDo package is to reduce the amount of time I need to fumble around in the dark adjusting settings for 5 hours just to get greyscale, gamma and color looking good !
I sent you a license and download link last night to your anz.com account at 10:14PM Central Standard time. Check your spam folder.

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post #10 of 66 Old 12-27-2012, 09:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Tom,

I suspected you could have sent it to my work email address which is why I am trying to get hold of you. Can you please email it to the email address which I have been trying to reach you on which is the yahoo.com

This time of the year a lot of companies shut shop so no one goes to work.
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post #11 of 66 Old 12-27-2012, 04:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for your input. Miscommunication resolved. I have got access to the software. I will trial it out shortly and give you my impressions whether it is a worthwhile investment for me.
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post #12 of 66 Old 12-27-2012, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lyndonlim View Post

Fair point kelvin. I understand that brightness and contrast have to be adjusted first before executing the auto calibration.

Don't forget that 100% white balance needs to be adjusted in the display too for best results before starting the autocal.

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post #13 of 66 Old 12-28-2012, 06:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post

Don't forget that 100% white balance needs to be adjusted in the display too for best results before starting the autocal.

Please explain to a newbie further on how to achieve these.

After I run auto calibrate via the duo, do I need to save the settings on the duo? Or will it automatically lock it in?
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post #14 of 66 Old 12-28-2012, 07:32 AM
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The autocal process should save it into the Duo's memory (it does on my Lumagen anyway) at the end. Hopefully a fellow Duo owner could confirm this?

You should adjust your display's RGB gain controls to give the lowest dE using a 100% white test pattern before starting the autocal. There isn't any need to adjust the other % points, but certainly this is the recommended process in the Lumagen tips for autocal. It's a bit beyond the scope of this thread to start explaining in detail how to do this if you don't know, but instead I would recommend that you read the thread below, noting the section about greyscale calibration in the first post:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/852536/basic-guide-to-color-calibration-using-a-cms-updated-and-enhanced

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post #15 of 66 Old 12-28-2012, 07:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Please see attached pre vs post results from my first attempt at auto calibrate function from Chromapure. Please advise on whether you see anything odd in the results.

It seems that auto calibrate has improved Greyscale, Gamma and Color gamut quite substantially when you look at the before and after charts.

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post #16 of 66 Old 12-28-2012, 07:46 AM - Thread Starter
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I still can't attached the proper before and after file as it looks much better than the last provided charts. Can someone tell me how to lock in the post auto calibration settings in Duo ? Does it do it automatically ?
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post #17 of 66 Old 12-28-2012, 07:55 AM
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It doesn't seem bad at all to me, though perhaps I would manually check and readjust the 30% reading before continuing with the colour gamut autocal. The 100% has a dE of 1.5 which is within the off quoted 3dE that we are supposed to be unable to detect. It could even be within the repeatablity of the meter/dispay anyway. No harm trying to adjust the 100% to be as close to 0dE before you start, but I wonder if it will make any visible improvement after the autocal anyway.

If you are struggling with low level reading due to low light output, it might be worth trying the sensor with it facing the screen (difuser in place) with the appropriate settings applied in Chromapure. You can even create an offset in Chromapure using the reference and field meter set up area, but if your screen is neutral then perhaps this might not be so critical.

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post #18 of 66 Old 12-28-2012, 07:59 AM - Thread Starter
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I also don't understand why dE is so high at 30% IRE under the Post Calibration report when it reported less than a dE of 1 immediately after the auto calibration at 30% IRE??
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post #19 of 66 Old 12-28-2012, 08:14 AM
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If that is the post calibration result then your dE isn't less than 1, so not sure what you mean. Do you have another response that shows 30% at a lower dE? I know that sometimes I've ended up with losing results by not saving my Chromapure session. There isn't anything stopping you from running another post calibration check which should use your corrected settings in the Duo and will use the Duo as the signal generator too just to confirm that you have a good result at 30%.

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post #20 of 66 Old 12-28-2012, 08:23 AM - Thread Starter
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I just played The Last of the Mohicans Blu Ray after running the auto calibration. I must have done something wrong because I am getting one of the most washed out picture I ever seen from a projector. Gamma must have been set too reveal too much detail so all the blacks were grey. Its like my projector took a 15 years journey back in time to when projectors could not do black properly.

I have set the target gamma to 2.40 to see if it improves things and I will also hit save immediately after the auto calibration has run.
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post #21 of 66 Old 12-28-2012, 09:14 AM
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Sorry if it's a bit 'sucking eggs' but you did set the contrast and brightness before starting the autocal didn't you?

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post #22 of 66 Old 12-28-2012, 09:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes I did but thanks for double checking. I do appreciate your thoroughness.

I bumped the gamma up to 2.60 and it was a lot better but I am still missing those inky blacks associated with JVC pjs. So I am now trying 2.8 gamma. Everything else has improved in terms of realism of color, its more like looking through a window now has grass has lost the shinny fluorescent color and is replaced more closely to what you see when you look out the window.

Something must not be right as I cannot imagine that the standard gamma setting to be between 2.22 and 2.35 to produce a decent picture.
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post #23 of 66 Old 12-28-2012, 09:53 AM - Thread Starter
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I set the meter initialisation mode to "standard" as I am taking readings off the screen. When I used the gamma setting of 2.3, the entire image was so washed out that I could see image noise in the form of grey blocks so I definitely wasn't getting anymore shadow detail than say a gamma setting of 2.6. At 2.6, I was getting more depth and retaining all the shadow detail.

I am at a lost to trying to work out what other interaction other devices are creating the elevated gamma...the entire fade to black scenes are now a very light grey at gamma 2.35 ??
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post #24 of 66 Old 12-28-2012, 10:20 AM
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Sorry I'm not a Duo owner, so some of my 'help' might be misguided. However, just to get things clear and hopefully to help:

Are you changing the gamma setting (target) in Chromapure? Or is this just the 'base' gamma in the projector? For example I use custom gamma 2.3 as a base for my X35, my target setting was 2.22.

After calibration, try using something like the AVS HD709 test disc:

Find the black full screen test pattern and then adjust the brightness control on the projector down. See if the screen gets any darker. If it does (and especially if you have to adjust a few clicks down before it won't get any darker) then something is wrong in the chain from your player to the Duo and projector.

When you use autocal it is calibrating the output of the Duo to the projector, but you still need to make sure that the Duo's input controls and the player's settings are correctly matched. A simple example might be using HDMI in 'PC' mode (0-255 RGB) which could give elevated blacks if the projector is set to 16-235 RGB. Or another could be that the brightness controls for the Duo's inputs are set too high (I'm assuming it has them like my Lumagen does).

Other set up items to check would be to investigate which colour space setting from your player gives the best result and then make sure that the projector is set to accept this setting (rather than relying on 'auto' which is the default option in JVC menus. Set the JVC HDMI to 'Superwhite' or 'Standard' (the later will limit peak white to 235 the former will allow up to 255 and both will clip below 16 so setting brightness may be slightly harder, though I find '0' is spot on anyway). Set the input to 4:2:2 (or whichever colour space you decide works best with your player and to match the output setting of the Duo) as auto can sometimes select the wrong option, which would usually be obvious with completely 'wrong' colours but could give you raised blacks if using RGB signals and auto decides to select the 'PC' level instead of 'Video RGB' for example.

Make sure that the RGB offsets in the JVC are set to '0' before the autocal. If you increase them above 0 it will raise the black floor and lowering them can cause crushing, so best left alone.

I selected 'Standard' colour space in my X35 which has a slightly oversaturated colour gamut, though I may try 'Wide' next time. If you change this setting you will need to readjust the 100% whitebalance again before re running autocal.

Hope some of this helps.

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post #25 of 66 Old 12-28-2012, 10:43 AM - Thread Starter
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I believe you may have hit the nail on the head by stating that you set the hdmi input to standard as I had mine on enhanced. I changed it to standard and it seemed to bring down the brightness so I have changed to standard and adjusted brightness and contrast again.

Somehow enhanced hdmi mode really lifts the brightness levels quite a bit and this in turn may affect settings...Tom can chime in.

Thanks for all your input and time so far Kelvin.
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post #26 of 66 Old 12-28-2012, 11:10 AM
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There isn't a problem using enhanced so long as the brightness and contrast are adjusted to suit, so I suspect it won't solve the problem you are having if everything was adjusted correctly prior to starting the autocal. However, if your player was set to enhanced then this might cause a problem as it would cause a mismatch between the calibration using the Duo as a signal generator compared to using your player as a source. A quick test would be to see if the test pattern for 0% (ie black) from the Duo is darker than using a test pattern off a disc from your player.

I just never see the point myself using enhanced as you end up with the same peak white and darkest black, just with different settings. I also wonder if using enhanced might be more prone to banding as the same range of signal is spread over a larger number of steps (0-255 instead of 16-235/255).

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post #27 of 66 Old 12-28-2012, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post

I just never see the point myself using enhanced as you end up with the same peak white and darkest black, just with different settings. I also wonder if using enhanced might be more prone to banding as the same range of signal is spread over a larger number of steps (0-255 instead of 16-235/255).
FYI, Greg Rogers used the Enhanced setting in one of his prior RS reviews (and needless to mention, GR knows what he's doing). I believe he used it because it had a bit less black crush and that is exactly what I find as well. I have seen absolutely no banding or other artifacts using Standard/Enhanced settings. Also, one can see blacker than black using HDMI enhanced which is not possible using HDMI Standard

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post #28 of 66 Old 12-28-2012, 11:23 AM
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The advantage to using Enhanced is that it is only here that you can see below black information. This helps with setting black level.

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post #29 of 66 Old 12-28-2012, 11:52 AM
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Yes I concede the point that it's easier to set the black level, but I don't find it hard anyway using the AVS disc or the patterns in my Lumagen using Standard or Superwhite in my X35.

I'm less convinced as to why enhanced should give less black crush than standard if the black levels are set correctly in each case. With brightness at 0 and a 2.22 gamma I can just about make out the flashing 17 bar on the AVS test pattern (but only if I stand in the shadow of the white text across the 16 bar). I will try the enhanced option to see if I find any difference, but I suspect that after the 125 point autocal any slight variations in gamma that might account for it would be evened out, which is possibly what accounts for the black crush that Geof mentions.

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post #30 of 66 Old 12-28-2012, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post

Yes I concede the point that it's easier to set the black level, but I don't find it hard anyway using the AVS disc or the patterns in my Lumagen using Standard or Superwhite in my X35.
I'm less convinced as to why enhanced should give less black crush than standard if the black levels are set correctly in each case. With brightness at 0 and a 2.22 gamma I can just about make out the flashing 17 bar on the AVS test pattern (but only if I stand in the shadow of the white text across the 16 bar). I will try the enhanced option to see if I find any difference, but I suspect that after the 125 point autocal any slight variations in gamma that might account for it would be evened out, which is possibly what accounts for the black crush that Geof mentions.
I don't know why enhanced works out but it did with my RS55 and it does with my RS4810. I don't care about seeing blacker than black - it comes with the setting but it is not the reason I chose that setting....

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