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Old 12-27-2012, 11:12 AM - Thread Starter
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I currently have a I1D2 and Calman Control License, looking to upgrade meter for beter accuracy(Primary display I will be calibrating is a 55ST30 Plasma) of these options which would you recommend ?

1. New Spectracal C3 meter, is this a significant upgrade in accuracy over the d2 ?
2. New I1DIsplay Pro meter-same questions apply, more accurate more consistent
3. Colomunki and then profile the D2 from that
4, Other options ?

I am okay with investing a few dollars but don't want to spend a ton, I realize you get what you pay for but I am hoping I can at the very least I can secure a meter I can be confident in.

Thanks

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Old 12-27-2012, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

I currently have a I1D2 and Calman Control License, looking to upgrade meter for beter accuracy(Primary display I will be calibrating is a 55ST30 Plasma) of these options which would you recommend ?
1. New Spectracal C3 meter, is this a significant upgrade in accuracy over the d2 ?
2. New I1DIsplay Pro meter-same questions apply, more accurate more consistent
3. Colomunki and then profile the D2 from that
4, Other options ?
I am okay with investing a few dollars but don't want to spend a ton, I realize you get what you pay for but I am hoping I can at the very least I can secure a meter I can be confident in.
Thanks

If your interest is accuracy, then you want to look at a Spectro, I recommend the i1Pro Spectro Rev D. you can find these used on ebay... the ColorMunki Spectro is my 2nd Choice.. you should be able to find a used i1Pro Rev D for less than a new ColorMunki Spectro.

The i1Pro is still used by many Professional Calibrators.

See why a Spectro here:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1373556/i1-pro-or-d3-if-you-could-only-have-one-meter

http://www.tlvexp.ca/2012/04/do-calibration-tables-really-work-for-tri-stim-devices/


If you wish, you can profile your i1D2 to the i1Pro on your actual display.

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Old 12-27-2012, 11:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

If your interest is accuracy, then you want to look at a Spectro, I recommend the i1Pro Spectro Rev D. you can find these used on ebay... the ColorMunki Spectro is my 2nd Choice.. you should be able to find a used i1Pro Rev D for less than a new ColorMunki Spectro.
The i1Pro is still used by many Professional Calibrators.
See why a Spectro here:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1373556/i1-pro-or-d3-if-you-could-only-have-one-meter
http://www.tlvexp.ca/2012/04/do-calibration-tables-really-work-for-tri-stim-devices/
If you wish, you can profile your i1D2 to the i1Pro on your actual display.

Okay so based on that no colorimeter is going to meet the accuracy standard ?

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Old 12-27-2012, 01:04 PM
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As far as a colorimeter, how will you know on your display?

Please do click on those two links I posted (and read), the answer is there..

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Old 12-27-2012, 01:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

As far as a colorimeter, how will you know on your display?
Please do click on those two links I posted (and read), the answer is there..

I did read both articles, thank you for the links. I see your point smile.gif

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Old 12-27-2012, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

I currently have a I1D2 and Calman Control License, looking to upgrade meter for beter accuracy(Primary display I will be calibrating is a 55ST30 Plasma) of these options which would you recommend ?
1. New Spectracal C3 meter, is this a significant upgrade in accuracy over the d2 ?
2. New I1DIsplay Pro meter-same questions apply, more accurate more consistent
3. Colomunki and then profile the D2 from that
4, Other options ?
I am okay with investing a few dollars but don't want to spend a ton, I realize you get what you pay for but I am hoping I can at the very least I can secure a meter I can be confident in.
Thanks

I would go with the colormunki spectro and profile the i1 D2.

Both option 1 and 2 are going to be much better than the D2 and the i1 Display Pro with it's sealed optics should stay much more consistent over a long period of time.

But for accuracy confidence, nothing beats having a spectro.

Joel Barsotti
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Old 12-27-2012, 03:27 PM
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I get asked this a lot (new ColorMunki Spectro or used i1Pro Rev D.).. I do recommend a used i1Pro Rev D since you can pick them up from $300 - $450... one of my users just won one for $370 on eBay a few days ago (and received it the next day, which in itself, is amazing).

If no luck on finding a used one or no time to wait, a Munki Spectro is good choice though it is my second choice (i1Pro Rev D being first).

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Old 12-27-2012, 03:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

I would go with the colormunki spectro and profile the i1 D2.
Both option 1 and 2 are going to be much better than the D2 and the i1 Display Pro with it's sealed optics should stay much more consistent over a long period of time.
But for accuracy confidence, nothing beats having a spectro.

Joel :

Define "much better" sir ? smile.gif What's your perspective on correction tables ? Seems like there are varying opinions out there on there viability. I don't think I need professional benchmark accuracy, I am just looking for a consistent result where any error would most likely not be visible. I may be upgrading my display next year and would like something that I could leverage auto-cal with or at a minimal make a really solid 10 point calibration. Seems like some folks have had alot of success with a D3 and a correction table for their display. How would the C3 compare accuracy wise to the I display pro ?

Thanks as always for both your support regarding Calman. and calibration in general smile.gif

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Old 12-27-2012, 03:42 PM
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Michael Chen has posted hard data on this.. though it was close on one display, it was off (and visibly) on another... which one will you be at with a colorimeter referenced to a high end spectro with displays located elsewhere?

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Old 12-27-2012, 03:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

Michael Chen has posted hard data on this.. though it was close on one display, it was off (and visibly) on another... which one will you be at with a colorimeter referenced to a high end spectro?

Yes I read that great article, I understand the points being made I think, all comes down to my budget in the end and whether I can justify that level of hardware for a hobbyist like myself smile.gif I appreciate your expertise

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Old 12-27-2012, 03:49 PM
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I think MichaelTLV says it best:
Quote:
The open question is then ... without a device to double check its performance, exactly how does one know when it is functioning correctly?

If you only have this device, then, you need to know the answer to this, or you can stick your head back into the sand. If I am a potential client to a calibrator that only pulls out a tri-stim device to calibrate my TV, I'd want to know the answer to this
.

and..
Quote:
Originally Posted by michael tlv 
Posted Here
(I'd trust my d3 more after I profile it against my spectro. )

Here's some more posts in regards to this subject by Michael -- click the Here on the 2nd quote above!

You already have a colorimeter.. add that Spectro, I don't care where you get a used i1Pro Rev or a used ColorMunki Spectro (or new one, also i1Pro2)..

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Old 12-27-2012, 03:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

I think MichaelTLV says it best:
and..
Here's some more posts in regards to this subject by Michael -- click the Here on the 2nd quote above!
You already have a colorimeter.. add that Spectro, I don't care where you get a used i1Pro Rev or a used ColorMunki Spectro (or new one, also i1Pro2)..

I appreciate the additional info, thank you smile.gif

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Old 12-27-2012, 03:57 PM
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I know I pound the spectro thing a lot.. I am a strong advocate for everyone interesting in display calibration to own a Spectro and have been for a long time..

there was a time when you could pick up the ColorMunki Spectro's new for approx $300.. if only that price remained! thankfully, decent pricing on used i1Pro Rev D's can be had if you search and perhaps be patient...

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Old 12-27-2012, 03:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

I know I pound the spectro thing a lot.. I am a strong advocate for everyone interesting in display calibration to own a Spectro and have been for a long time..

Not a problem I appreciate your passion and in the end you are probably correct, I do want to master it and do it properly

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Old 12-27-2012, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

Joel :
Define "much better" sir ? smile.gif What's your perspective on correction tables ? Seems like there are varying opinions out there on there viability. I don't think I need professional benchmark accuracy, I am just looking for a consistent result where any error would most likely not be visible. I may be upgrading my display next year and would like something that I could leverage auto-cal with or at a minimal make a really solid 10 point calibration. Seems like some folks have had alot of success with a D3 and a correction table for their display. How would the C3 compare accuracy wise to the I display pro ?
Thanks as always for both your support regarding Calman. and calibration in general smile.gif

One thing that you have to understand is that spectrum of each display you test will have a large effect on the perceived accuracy of a meter.

I can show you an LCD that will make SpectraCal C6 look like it challenges a CS2000 for accuracy out doing even the Klien K10. I can also show you a display where it would be obvious that profiling the C6 against the i1Pro will provide a signifigant improvement. This even extends to spectrophotometers as how spikey the spectrum is, impacts the resolution you need to measure it (spectros range from 10nm to 1nm). So you need to look at perfomance over a wide range of displays to make any kind of blanket judgement.

Another thing to note, is since Micheal Chen's review of the C6 we added both a wide gamut white LED table as well as white LED RGBY LCD table to the C6, so if he were to run those tests again we would see much better results. On the technical side, if you are going to compare meter results head to head you also need to match field of view exactly. Something like the Jeti, which Micheal uses, has a very narrow field of view and the i1 Display Pro and C6 have a much wider field of view. Comparing results is only valid when you measure the exact same area with both meters, which is why our lab has an elaborate jig for calibrating meters. We can guarantee that the alignment is accurate every time.


So back to the meters, the C3 is based on the older chroma5, but it has 3 tables a CCFL LCD, white LED LCD table, and a plasma table, the i1D3 adds a UHP table for projectors and a CRT table. The D3 has lower light sensitivity, optics to provide more consistent measurements with out worring about angularity issues, the optics also allow it to do a much better job reading projectors, The sealed optics mean that meter is much less sensitive to drift, the few meters we've retested after over a year of use have had very little drift (less than 0.005x/y). That said 4 or 5 years ago the Chroma 5 was a $1000 meter and the go to colorimeter for most pro calibrators.

The last thing I would say, is if you look around the forums you'll see many examples of how accurate an aged i1 Display2 is, and it's not pretty, so what ever you do I'm sure you'll be happy with the results.

Joel Barsotti
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Old 12-27-2012, 04:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

One thing that you have to understand is that spectrum of each display you test will have a large effect on the perceived accuracy of a meter.
I can show you an LCD that will make SpectraCal C6 look like it challenges a CS2000 for accuracy out doing even the Klien K10. I can also show you a display where it would be obvious that profiling the C6 against the i1Pro will provide a signifigant improvement. This even extends to spectrophotometers as how spikey the spectrum is, impacts the resolution you need to measure it (spectros range from 10nm to 1nm). So you need to look at perfomance over a wide range of displays to make any kind of blanket judgement.
Another thing to note, is since Micheal Chen's review of the C6 we added both a wide gamut white LED table as well as white LED RGBY LCD table to the C6, so if he were to run those tests again we would see much better results. On the technical side, if you are going to compare meter results head to head you also need to match field of view exactly. Something like the Jeti, which Micheal uses, has a very narrow field of view and the i1 Display Pro and C6 have a much wider field of view. Comparing results is only valid when you measure the exact same area with both meters, which is why our lab has an elaborate jig for calibrating meters. We can guarantee that the alignment is accurate every time.
So back to the meters, the C3 is based on the older chroma5, but it has 3 tables a CCFL LCD, white LED LCD table, and a plasma table, the i1D3 adds a UHP table for projectors and a CRT table. The D3 has lower light sensitivity, optics to provide more consistent measurements with out worring about angularity issues, the optics also allow it to do a much better job reading projectors, The sealed optics mean that meter is much less sensitive to drift, the few meters we've retested after over a year of use have had very little drift (less than 0.005x/y). That said 4 or 5 years ago the Chroma 5 was a $1000 meter and the go to colorimeter for most pro calibrators.
The last thing I would say, is if you look around the forums you'll see many examples of how accurate an aged i1 Display2 is, and it's not pretty, so what ever you do I'm sure you'll be happy with the results.

So both the C3 and D3 have sealed optics or only the D3 ? Are the D3's advantages primarily with projector calibration ?

Thank you for your detailed response, great job on Calman 5 btw hat's off to you and your team

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Old 12-27-2012, 04:50 PM
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The D3 series is a total new design for a colorimeter allowing for the use of multiple edr's with the spectral power distribution for a display (type).. It really is a big step over the previous generations as is it's performance and lowend ability, the C3 is still from the previous generation design.. I personally had hoped X-Rite would have released the utility for users to create/write their own edr's by using a Spectro (of all classes) on their own displays - just imagine the library of edr's that could be available biggrin.gif

No doubt your i1D2 has drifted, having a spectro handy may bring new life back to it.. many here like the Spectro/i1D3 (even Spectro/C6, Spectro/i1D3 Pro) combos

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Old 12-27-2012, 04:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

The D3 is a total new design for a colorimeter allowing for the use of multiple edr's with the spectral power distribution for a display (type).. It really is a big step over the previous generations..

Translating to increased accuracy ? wink.gif

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Old 12-27-2012, 04:55 PM
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Only the D3 has sealed optics.

It also has better low light sensitivity, so it can be more accurate with faster exposure times (or just more accurate and read darker).
It's base calibrations are probably a little more accurate as well. I don't know if those differences are significant or not.

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Old 12-27-2012, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

Translating to increased accuracy ? wink.gif

Here's where I think the design could reallly work well, having edr's for each Manufacturer Model Series with new files available each year... wouldn't be that be something..

if only....
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

I personally had hoped X-Rite would have released the utility for users to create/write their own edr's by using a Spectro (of all classes) on their own displays - just imagine the library of edr's that could be available biggrin.gif

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Old 12-27-2012, 05:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

Only the D3 has sealed optics.
It also has better low light sensitivity, so it can be more accurate with faster exposure times (or just more accurate and read darker).
It's base calibrations are probably a little more accurate as well. I don't know if those differences are significant or not.

Okay sounds like the d3 is my best option of that type, now if I could only score a trade in deal with my D2 wink.gif

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Old 12-27-2012, 05:06 PM
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there was a trade in for that, contact their sales.. not sure if that deal is still available. I'm sure they can set something up..

However, I do think you will consider a spectro in your future

each batch in a display model line may have different spectral properties, let alone similar display tech from different manufacturers

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Old 12-27-2012, 05:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

there was a trade in for that, contact their sales.. not sure if that deal is still available. I'm sure they can set something up..
However, I do think you will consider a spectro in your future

I think so as well and you will be the first to know about it smile.gif

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