Are light output number quoted in Plasma calibrations really accurate because of ABL ? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 10 Old 01-01-2013, 09:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Chad did my ST30 earlier this year, he achieved 41ftl in Custom mode, I find it plenty bright enough for both day and night time viewing, my question is is the following accurate, I have someone stating in the Plasma thread that the true light output is 18ftl when ABL is fully engaged, I don't even notice abl honestly, here is the quote:

"No.

Yes the TV is really about 18fl when being taxed fully. 42fl is ONLY when you measure a 1% window. Meaning when only 1% of the TV is illuminated it hits 42fl. I wish more people knew what the numbers represent that get repeated.

Most of the shootout numbers are not useful... Marketing. An example... the vt50 color accuracy charts produced do not represent real world viewing. They are measuring them outside of the abl with tiny 1% windows, this gives you pretty charts. But it really tells you nothing of how the TV performs with real world material when the abl is active. Really there should be another test showing if there is linearity between the abl and color accuracy with different levels of stimulation while the abl is being taxed.

Another example... Anyone who has a lot of experience working with these tv's will tell you the e8000 is actually brighter visually than the vt50 when you set peak white using a 1% or 10% window. Which one can be set physically the brightest? Unknown to me never tested. But using equal methods they don't perform the same.

Basically what I'm saying is looking at calibration data that was measured without the abl being heavily engaged doesn't tell you much. You rarely watch TV with the abl not engaged heavily. In theory the vt50 should track color the same regardless of window size. Things get complicated to measure when you factor in the abl."

Just wondering how accurate this is ? I know for a fact Chad doesn't use 1% windows.

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post #2 of 10 Old 01-01-2013, 09:16 AM
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if you put up a full field 100% white pattern and and check, it will be much lower due to this.. This also applies to CRT's, again which were reference for decades.

Related recent topic here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1446386/abl-effects-measured-for-comparison/30#post_22768462

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post #3 of 10 Old 01-01-2013, 09:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

if you put up a full field 100% white pattern and and check, it will be much lower due to this.. This also applies to CRT's, again which were reference for decades.

Oh i understand that Turbe just question some of the other opinions in there stated as facts, I am happy with my light output and my calibration. Do they really use 1% windows for the shootout ?

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post #4 of 10 Old 01-01-2013, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

Do they really use 1% windows for the shootout ?

VE Shootout? No, where did you hear that?
Quote:

Basically what I'm saying is looking at calibration data that was measured without the abl being heavily engaged doesn't tell you much. You rarely watch TV with the abl not engaged heavily. In theory the vt50 should track color the same regardless of window size. Things get complicated to measure when you factor in the abl."

Well, I do find the data that is being discussed in the other recent threads (link above) interesting, there was time and attention put into the 10% size in the past.

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post #5 of 10 Old 01-01-2013, 09:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

VE Shootout? No, where did you hear that?

According to this poster:

"Most of the shootout numbers are not useful... Marketing. An example... the vt50 color accuracy charts produced do not represent real world viewing. They are measuring them outside of the abl with tiny 1% windows, this gives you pretty charts. But it really tells you nothing of how the TV performs with real world material when the abl is active. Really there should be another test showing if there is linearity between the abl and color accuracy with different levels of stimulation while the abl is being taxed."

I didn't believe this to be true but thought I would check with the real experts smile.gif

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post #6 of 10 Old 01-01-2013, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

VE Shootout?
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post


According to this poster:
Quote:
They are measuring them outside of the abl with tiny 1% windows.

Absolutely Not True!


.

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post #7 of 10 Old 01-01-2013, 11:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

Absolutely Not True!
.

Thank you sir, here is the thread in the plasma forum should you care to opine smile.gif

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1448732/am-i-better-off-waiting-for-the-new-2013-plasmas-or-should-i-go-with-the-2012

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post #8 of 10 Old 01-02-2013, 06:34 AM
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No we used 18% windows. We are fully aware of the ABL circuitry in Plasma, how it works and what it does. It would not change the results. Frankly, LCD display technology has some many other negatives that there is no contest against the PQ of a plasma as good as the VT50 series Panasonics. And it is not Marketing! I ahve nothing to gain in my evaluations.

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post #9 of 10 Old 01-02-2013, 07:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monitorman View Post

No we used 18% windows. We are fully aware of the ABL circuitry in Plasma, how it works and what it does. It would not change the results. Frankly, LCD display technology has some many other negatives that there is no contest against the PQ of a plasma as good as the VT50 series Panasonics. And it is not Marketing! I ahve nothing to gain in my evaluations.

Thank you Kevin

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post #10 of 10 Old 01-03-2013, 03:47 PM
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Please note that CRTs have never had any ABL type circuits to limit output...

What all CRTs have is a natural display 'roll-off' if contrast is over cranked, as that is the natural response of Cathode Ray Tubes to be over driven.
If the contrast is set correctly there is no 'roll-off' effect.

This is very different to plasma ABL

Just making this point for accuracy.

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