LightSpace 3D LUT Home Cinema Calibration Software - Page 34 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #991 of 1366 Old 08-01-2017, 07:32 AM
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What is the licensing process for upgrades? When you run this, it asks you to delete/uninstall the old version. Is your license information retained or do you have to setup again? Thanks. SJ
Hi, when you will uninstall the old version to install a newer one; your license data are not removed because they are located to an another folder. Your license will appear again automatically when you will run the newer version (or it will need from you only to click the activation button and then go to Help -> License and click Register).
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post #992 of 1366 Old 08-01-2017, 02:35 PM
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LightSpace CMS 8.0.0.2640 (01 August 2017) has been released.

As is usual for Light Illusion's continued development process for LightSpace CMS a raft of new developments have been released.

Release Notes

This is a quick fix the main issues with the new ‘Patch Scale’ function earlier build introduced.

All is not yet fully correct, but the outstanding issues will not cause users problems.

A complete fix will follow the next days.

Download Link

Note: All LightSpace related guides which are available online has been updated to reflect changes the latest released version of LightSpace introduced.
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post #993 of 1366 Old 08-02-2017, 11:52 AM
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LightSpace CMS 8.0.0.2643 (02 August 2017) has been released.

As is usual for Light Illusion's continued development process for LightSpace CMS a raft of new developments have been released.

Release Notes

This release is including the complete fix/changes for the new ‘Patch Scale’ function.

Download Link

Note: All LightSpace related guides which are available online has been updated to reflect changes the latest released version of LightSpace introduced.
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post #994 of 1366 Old 08-06-2017, 11:36 PM
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Hi, just downloaded the latest LightSpace CMS update.

What is the correct LS Colour Standard Target setting for my recently purchased TCL 55P605 4K UHD TV? I selected UHD Rec2020 and ran the grayscale only measurement, and the resulting gamut triangle is smaller than the target triangle.


This TCL TV was released a month or two ago and has FALD design and Dolby Vision UHD, if that matters.
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post #995 of 1366 Old 08-07-2017, 03:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post
Hi, just downloaded the latest LightSpace CMS update.

What is the correct LS Colour Standard Target setting for my recently purchased TCL 55P605 4K UHD TV? I selected UHD Rec2020 and ran the grayscale only measurement, and the resulting gamut triangle is smaller than the target triangle.


This TCL TV was released a month or two ago and has FALD design and Dolby Vision UHD, if that matters.
This sounds logical - I don't think there are any TVs out there that actually meet REC2020?
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post #996 of 1366 Old 08-07-2017, 06:23 AM
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That's correct.
All UHD TVs have a far smaller gamut that the Rec2020 target.
That is one reason why UHD/HDR is so compromised, as no 2 TVs will show the same image in the same way.
The one possible positive is that all UHD material is actually calibrated on DCI P3 displays, with the final image mapped into Rec2020 for dlivery. So if the TV can do P3 minimum then there will be no 'missing' colours when calibrated to Rec2020.
But few home TVs can do P3...

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post #997 of 1366 Old 08-07-2017, 11:36 AM
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Thank you, Steve, for the clarification. I will check with Imagic and see which settings he used for his review here on AVS.
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post #998 of 1366 Old 08-09-2017, 11:26 AM
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I've been reading the LS guides on UHD/HDR/WCG calibration. Will the HDfury Linker work with Lightspace test patterns, to trigger HDR-10?

Is the HDfury Vertex overkill? It's not available till November.
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post #999 of 1366 Old 08-09-2017, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post
I've been reading the LS guides on UHD/HDR/WCG calibration. Will the HDfury Linker work with Lightspace test patterns, to trigger HDR-10?

Is the HDfury Vertex overkill? It's not available till November.
The Linker absolutely will trigger HDR-10.

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post #1000 of 1366 Old 08-09-2017, 07:24 PM
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Great, thanks.
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post #1001 of 1366 Old 08-10-2017, 02:10 AM
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Yep, we have a lot of users adopting the various HDfury devices to enable HDR on their displays while profiling.
It's a very simple and effect workflow.

Steve
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post #1002 of 1366 Old 08-10-2017, 03:00 AM
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I did a pre-cal measurement in SDR mode. Selecting the Auto color space setting maps to REC 709

Primaries are slightly under-saturated in Gamut Sweep, but calibration should fix that. Can wait to try HDR mode. This is a $600 set!




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post #1003 of 1366 Old 08-11-2017, 10:27 AM
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LightIllusion is always looking for different ways to assess display capabilities, and have just added a couple of new features/changes to the LightSpace graphs.

They are actually rather obvious and they will be included in the next release in a couple of days or so.

Anyway, the first is a change to the 'Stimulus Level' filter for the CIE diagram - basically, it now works as it should!



It now shows 'slices' through the CIE diagram 'Luminance' (z axis), displaying the gamut points for each slice. This is basically showing the Volumetric colour capabilities of the profiled display.

The second change is the ability to independently plot any 'Drift' patches in a profile, to see the underlying stability of any given display/probe combination.

During display characterization procedure, when you have enabled the Drift Compensation feature with 20 value for example, LightSpace it takes a one White measurement per 20 other color patches and at the end you have the option to include (or not include) these data to the generation of the 3D LUT correction, for the 3D LUT correction to include the shifting from display drifting during the measurements, for the color engine to get better data and generate more accurate correction. This helps a lot projectors or Plasma/OLED which are not stable output during the hours of measurements.

Here are some examples of very different results. This is from a BON broadcast display, which had not been left long enough to warm-up before profiling:



Here is a Dreamcolor display, showing just how generally unstable it is:



Here you see a Pioneer KURO, it's drifting over the time linear, starring with higher output which is dropped linear during the measurements, while the output is dropped, the chromaticity is changing a bit:



Here you see LG 2016 OLED, the output is drifted, display gets brighter over the time, this profile performed with Wide Gamut option selected:



Here you see LG 2016 OLED, very unstable output, this profiled performed with Normal Gamut option selected. Normal Gamut adds an LG processing (some kind of 3D LUT correction/processing from LG internally) to provide a colorspace coverage closer to REC.709 ....this graph shows how LG internal poor processing affects so much the display stability. This why it's better to use Native display gamut when you perform 3D LUT display characterization, we don't need any added display processing to affect the display performance:

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post #1004 of 1366 Old 08-12-2017, 01:52 AM
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Thanks Ted - looking at your plots I think we need to adjust the vertical axis on the Drift graph!

Steve

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post #1005 of 1366 Old 08-12-2017, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Light Illusion View Post
I think we need to adjust the vertical axis on the Drift graph!
What is the scale (-0.1, +0.1 etc) of the vertical axis? Some of graphs are labelled "dE distribution", but dE cannot be negative.
Does the program not provide an automatic scaling option?

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post #1006 of 1366 Old 08-12-2017, 08:27 AM
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As you can see (I hope) on the vertical axis of the graph, it is presently +/- 0.5 nits.
But, we will be changing that to auto scale to a selection of pre-sets - max +/- 5 nits - as it seems some displays are way more unsalable than we anticipated...

The problem with auto-scaling is it becomes difficult to compare different profiles, so we have avoided that - but for Drift it does seem the only option.

The other graphs have different scaling, as shown on the graph axis.
The dE Graphs all start at zero, and progress positively.

The Delta-E graph is dE.
The dE Distribution is in percentage.

If this info is not in the User Manuals I will be adding it ASAP!

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post #1007 of 1366 Old 08-12-2017, 02:28 PM
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I've just picked up an i1pro2 to replace my ageing i1pro rev D.
Is there any way to disable the light show it seems intent on doing:
a) bright flash on reading
b) slow pulsing while idle (not reading?)
What does b) mean? Is it actually taking readings while pulsing like this?
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post #1008 of 1366 Old 08-12-2017, 02:59 PM
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Yep - un-tick 'Enable Visible Feedback' in the 'Options' menu.
And 'b' just means the probe is connected to LightSpace, and ready to be used.

Steve
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post #1009 of 1366 Old 08-12-2017, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Light Illusion View Post
Yep - un-tick 'Enable Visible Feedback' in the 'Options' menu.
And 'b' just means the probe is connected to LightSpace, and ready to be used.
Thanks Steve Much appreciated.
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post #1010 of 1366 Old 08-12-2017, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Here you see LG 2016 OLED, the output is drifted, display gets brighter over the time, this profile performed with Wide Gamut option selected:



Here you see LG 2016 OLED, very unstable output, this profiled performed with Normal Gamut option selected. Normal Gamut adds an LG processing (some kind of 3D LUT correction/processing from LG internally) to provide a colorspace coverage closer to REC.709 ....this graph shows how LG internal poor processing affects so much the display stability. This why it's better to use Native display gamut when you perform 3D LUT display characterization, we don't need any added display processing to affect the display performance:

Woah! Surely this must be the result of some kind of automatic brightness / power management / etc? Why would just adding a LUT result in the output of same value white patches becoming unstable like that? Probably more related to exactly what were the patches in the sequence before the white patch.
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post #1011 of 1366 Old 08-12-2017, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobof View Post
Woah! Surely this must be the result of some kind of automatic brightness / power management / etc? Why would just adding a LUT result in the output of same value white patches becoming unstable like that? Probably more related to exactly what were the patches in the sequence before the white patch.
The instability is exaggerated in the plot. The full scale is only +/- 0.5 nits.
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post #1012 of 1366 Old 08-12-2017, 04:28 PM
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As Dominic says, the vertical axis is presently +/- 0.5 nits.
When we release this capability the graph will auto scale to a range that works with the min/max of the Drift patches, with a maximum on +/- 5 nits - if any display has a drift over that, and any peak luma level, its junk.

But, you should realise that there was no LUT active - this is the underlying response of the displays.
And adding a LUT would not change a display's instability - that is not a feature a LUT can alter.

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post #1013 of 1366 Old 08-12-2017, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Light Illusion View Post
But, you should realise that there was no LUT active - this is the underlying response of the displays.
And adding a LUT would not change a display's instability - that is not a feature a LUT can alter.
He was referring to Ted's post which says
Quote:
(some kind of 3D LUT correction/processing from LG internally) to provide a colorspace coverage closer to REC.709 ....this graph shows how LG internal poor processing affects so much the display stability.
Definitely not LightSpace
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post #1014 of 1366 Old 08-12-2017, 04:42 PM
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Ah - missed that...
And I'm gong to have disagree with Ted - no LUT can cause instability in a display.
Instability is just poor electronics.
(Or ABL type issues...)

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post #1015 of 1366 Old 08-12-2017, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobof View Post
Woah! Surely this must be the result of some kind of automatic brightness / power management / etc? Why would just adding a LUT result in the output of same value white patches becoming unstable like that? Probably more related to exactly what were the patches in the sequence before the white patch.
Hi, there were not active any kind of automatic brightness or power saving mode etc.

Both profiles used exact the same patch sequence which is Anisometric, ASBL was disabled from Service Menu, 10% Patterns used with peak output 145 nits, Klein K-10A measured with exact same time every patch (150ms) so all the patches during profiling were displayed with exact same time to the screen. Meter delay before each pattern read were 0.5sec, both pictures were from 21-Point Cube profiling which took about 2H40M.

The Drift patch; which is a 94.11% Gray; measured between 136.70 - 140.38 nits during the 'Normal Gamut' profiling.

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post #1016 of 1366 Old 08-12-2017, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
He was referring to Ted's post which says: ''(some kind of 3D LUT correction/processing from LG internally) to provide a colorspace coverage closer to REC.709 ....this graph shows how LG internal poor processing affects so much the display stability.''
Quote:
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Ah - missed that...
And I'm gong to have disagree with Ted - no LUT can cause instability in a display.
Instability is just poor electronics.
(Or ABL type issues...)

Steve
Hey guys, I was talking about the processing which is added to the native display response....when you select Normal Gamut to LG; LG internally is adding some offsets using 3D LUT 9-Point Cube (for 2016 LG OLEDs) to de-saturate the native primaries which are a lot wider from REC.709 primaries, for the display to reach REC.709 primaries. This added processing which LG internally is applying it provides that difference in the 2 charts I posted.

As I have posted at past that the normal gamut of 2016 LG OLED's have serious errors in mid/low end mapping: Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk

For that reason a lot of LG OLED users are using eeColor 3D LUT Box for SDR 3D LUT display characterization using Wide Gamut option to bypass any LG processing.
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post #1017 of 1366 Old 08-12-2017, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hey guys, I was talking about the processing which is added to the native display response....when you select Normal Gamut to LG; LG internally is adding some offsets using 3D LUT 9-Point Cube (for 2016 LG OLEDs) to de-saturate the native primaries which are a lot wider from REC.709 primaries, for the display to reach REC.709 primaries. This added processing which LG internally is applying it provides that difference in the 2 charts I posted.
But how can this kind of instability of the same value patch (if my understanding is correct, this is a chart of the drift patches only) be seen over time like this from something like a LUT which surely has no concept time? It sounds more like something else is going on.
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post #1018 of 1366 Old 08-12-2017, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
The instability is exaggerated in the plot. The full scale is only +/- 0.5 nits.
My comment relates to the difference between the two charts, which is supposedly just from some gamut modification on the same display(?), not just to the last chart in isolation.
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post #1019 of 1366 Old 08-12-2017, 08:41 PM
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Hi, can I preset the color patch size? It's too small on my 4k set and constant resizing takes time.
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post #1020 of 1366 Old 08-12-2017, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
LightIllusion is always looking for different ways to assess display capabilities, and have just added a couple of new features/changes to the LightSpace graphs.

They are actually rather obvious and they will be included in the next release in a couple of days or so.

Anyway, the first is a change to the 'Stimulus Level' filter for the CIE diagram - basically, it now works as it should!

>snip<

The second change is the ability to independently plot any 'Drift' patches in a profile, to see the underlying stability of any given display/probe combination.
Are these features available now? I just downloaded latest version 8.0.0.2643 and can't see how to get the drift dE chart. I just did a nice long profile on my JVC PJ (~5 hrs) and am interested to see what horrors it holds...

Edit: I'm only at HTL license level if that makes a difference.

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