Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk - Page 24 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 172Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #691 of 703 Old 05-30-2017, 02:53 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 5,179
Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1533 Post(s)
Liked: 1977
Quote:
Originally Posted by shield1280 View Post
@ConnecTEDDD

about Black Tunnel,when you set brightness that 0,5 shall that blink or just blend in the background?


Hi, about about Black Tunnel pattern:



This is a pattern which has flashing boxes. The picture you see here, it doesn't have the original pattern digital levels, I have lift the brightness by 150% using Photoshop to the whole image; for being easier to the users to see all the areas of that pattern at that example.

The things which have to flash is the 17 boxes, the text which say 17 (large letters are the center left top side, left bottom side) or 0.5% (at center right side)

Also at bottom left side, no box should be visible, because all boxes are from 16 till 8. Only the letters which say 17 has to be visible and flashing.

This is good for checking if a wrong brightness setting will lift black levels.

There also letters which say 'This is 2%/4% below black and should not be visible'' The letters have 16 level fill, so they have to be invisible. (If the user sees a boarder for this letters, this means that he has high it's sharpness.)

When you don't see any flashing box of 16 and below but you still able to see the letters fill ''This is 2%/4% below black and should not be visible (letters fill/color is 16) this means that some enhancement in processing is detecting and boosting that level, so you have to find out which setting is enabling the artifact and disable it.

When you don't see any flashing box of 16 and below but you still able to see the letters boarder (not fill) ''This is 2%/4% below black and should not be visible (letters fill/color is 16)This is reference Black & should not be visible'' flashing (while the letters fill is invisible), this means that your current sharpness setting is not correct and you have to reduce the sharpness slider more.

It has to do with the combination of sharpness setting with the image processing engine of each display, that enable/boosting these fake details that are not supposed to be visible.

This is a good pattern to check near black levels to 3 parts of the screen. not only one as usual. If you imagine an area where a 2.35:1 movie covers, this is inside to the 3 areas where the pattern is flashing. Usually the corners or up-down bars are black to the most of the movies.
tomolav1980 likes this.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #692 of 703 Old 05-30-2017, 04:46 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
xvfx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 1,372
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 410 Post(s)
Liked: 242
^^

When some people said not seeing 17 didn't matter I'm afraid it does. I experimented in the past with this and some games, the very dark details were crushed because 17 wasn't there. You knew something was wrong.
xvfx is offline  
post #693 of 703 Old 05-31-2017, 02:32 AM
Member
 
FreMo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Corsica - FRANCE
Posts: 118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 76 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post
I personally think that it will be a while before you see 4K UHD HDR versions of disks like Ted's. This isn't a condemnation of Ted. Current disc authoring software isn't quite up to the task, and burners and discs are either not available or prohibitively expensive. Currently, you can use the HDFury Integral or Linker devices along with a player and Ted's disc to send the correct metadata to put your set into HDR mode. The Linker can also scale the signal to 4K, which the Integral cannot. An alternative is Ryan Masciola's 4K UHD HDR-10 test pattern set. These must be placed on a USB thumb drive, but are 4K and contain the correct metadata to put your display into HDR mode.
I know, but I asked about UHD patterns and not disc. In other words, video files patterns.
FreMo is offline  
 
post #694 of 703 Old 06-01-2017, 06:01 AM
Member
 
T( )( )L's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sweden
Posts: 151
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Ted,i used the profiler in calman 2017 singlepass with an i1pro2 as reference and my calman C6 meter as target,here is the result of your excellent profiling "checker" i belive if you have x-y within +/-0.001 its ok and luminance within 1.5% it should be ok,however i seem to have some problem with red,i tried several profilings but it seems to be the same problems with red,am i doing some thing wrong when profiling?
T( )( )L is online now  
post #695 of 703 Old 06-01-2017, 06:06 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 5,179
Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1533 Post(s)
Liked: 1977
Quote:
Originally Posted by T( )( )L View Post
Ted,i used the profiler in calman 2017 singlepass with an i1pro2 as reference and my calman C6 meter as target,here is the result of your excellent profiling "checker" i belive if you have x-y within +/-0.001 its ok and luminance within 1.5% it should be ok,however i seem to have some problem with red,i tried several profilings but it seems to be the same problems with red,am i doing some thing wrong when profiling?
Hi, what meter settings are you using for each meter?

Up to +-1.5% Luminance difference is accepted according to NIST publications, you have 3.3% Luminance difference. About xy difference it's up to +-0.001 xy the accepted range.

The meter in continuous mode (which can be affected by the meter settings) need to have a repeatability in Y about 0.5% max to it's reported numbers.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5

Last edited by ConnecTEDDD; 06-01-2017 at 06:29 AM.
ConnecTEDDD is offline  
post #696 of 703 Old 06-01-2017, 06:31 AM
Member
 
T( )( )L's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sweden
Posts: 151
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked: 35
I1pro2 is in direct mode and C6 is in lg woled
T( )( )L is online now  
post #697 of 703 Old 06-01-2017, 06:34 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 5,179
Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1533 Post(s)
Liked: 1977
Quote:
Originally Posted by T( )( )L View Post
I1pro2 is in direct mode and C6 is in lg woled
What's the settings of C6? Samples or Exposure time...

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is offline  
post #698 of 703 Old 06-01-2017, 06:42 AM
Member
 
T( )( )L's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sweden
Posts: 151
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked: 35
C6 exposure mode: 1 sample
Low ligh handler enabled
Low light mode: 5 samples
Low light trigger 1nits

Single sample on i1pro2 as well
T( )( )L is online now  
post #699 of 703 Old 06-01-2017, 06:54 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 5,179
Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1533 Post(s)
Liked: 1977
Quote:
Originally Posted by T( )( )L View Post
C6 exposure mode: 1 sample
Low ligh handler enabled
Low light mode: 5 samples
Low light trigger 1nits

Single sample on i1pro2 as well
With 1 sample, the repeatability will be poor, it gives only speed, try more samples or a fixed exposure, until you find a better combination of settings which will provide more stable results.

Since you are using my disk, load the Pre-Calibration Tools Workflow and locate the White Balance layout page:



Display the WRGB patterns and measure them in continuous mode, check various meter exposure times or add multiple samples per read, test refreshing rate options; how all these changes are affecting the readings, until you find the best combination which will give you more stable xyY numbers.
T( )( )L likes this.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is offline  
post #700 of 703 Old 06-01-2017, 06:56 AM
Member
 
T( )( )L's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sweden
Posts: 151
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Thanks Ted,will give it a try tomorrow no more time for it today

Nicke
T( )( )L is online now  
post #701 of 703 Old 06-01-2017, 07:26 AM
Member
 
T( )( )L's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sweden
Posts: 151
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
With 1 sample, the repeatability will be poor, it gives only speed, try more samples or a fixed exposure, until you find a better combination of settings which will provide more stable results.

Since you are using my disk, load the Pre-Calibration Tools Workflow and locate the White Balance layout page:



Display the WRGB patterns and measure them in continuous mode, check various meter exposure times or add multiple samples per read, test refreshing rate options; how all these changes are affecting the readings, until you find the best combination which will give you more stable xyY numbers.

It's impossible to get a stable reading @ ire 100 in continous mode on my display (lg oled b6) the white point creeps around on the screen since the panel luminance seems to fluctuate,it might be that i have both meters in contact mode (as close as possible together) and the uniformity on the screen gives me that error?
T( )( )L is online now  
post #702 of 703 Old 06-01-2017, 09:42 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 5,179
Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1533 Post(s)
Liked: 1977
Quote:
Originally Posted by T( )( )L View Post
It's impossible to get a stable reading @ ire 100 in continous mode on my display (lg oled b6) the white point creeps around on the screen since the panel luminance seems to fluctuate,it might be that i have both meters in contact mode (as close as possible together) and the uniformity on the screen gives me that error?
When you are measuring an OLED, just test 3-4 measurements of the same patch, to check repeatability, don't keep the same pattern displayed to the screen for much time.

If you look to any of the disk chapters, all patches are autochange to the next one after 10 sec and there 1.5 sec black frame between measurements, to separate the patches, you can use for example any Color Gamut Chapter of CalMAN which is starting my displaying 100% White (take 3 readings) and let the chapter flow to the next color (Red....Green...Blue etc..) and see the repeatability you have.

CalMAN use small exposure (to bright patches/higher to darker patches) time sample when you select 1 sample, when you select 10 sample, it's doing the same and it's displaying to you the average. I prefer better to use one of the selectable exposure times from xx sample selection.

Repeatability has to do with exposure time settng (a higher setting will provide a more stable readings) and the selected sync option. It needs to spend some time to find out what setting provides better balance between repeatability/quick measurment time).

Try dark shades also, small exposure time can provide read error in dark patches.

To find some dark patches (10% RGBCMY for example) go to the Meter Setup Page:



Select the DIP Mode 10-Point Cube and it will start displaying about 10% Luminance patches of the primary/secondary colors, there the patches are autochange per 20 sec, because meters like i1D3 (OEM/OEM Branded like C6/Retail) take more time to read dark patches.



The original purpose for these DIP Mode chapters is for LightSpace users where the software has an option to 'measure and log' so you can select to measure in continuous mode and when you press stop, it will export you an excel file with the xyY and measuring time per each meter read (in milliseconds) so it's easier to keep all the data per each meter setting, do all measurements with different meter modes, collect all measurement data, and when you have time examine the excel files to find out what meter setting is better for your display.

By selecting 'measure and log' from LightSpace, you will be prompt to enter a File Name, for Example you can type ''5% Red'' and after clicking ok, the LightSpace will take continuous readings of the pattern you are displaying, as long time as you want, to stop this , press ‘’Stop Measurement’’...

After doing that, a ‘5% Red.cvs’’ file will be created and you will be able to open it with Excel to see the xyY Readings and the time it took for your meter to read this patch.

This is an example of the CVS file Data contents:


Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is offline  
post #703 of 703 Old 06-01-2017, 10:05 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 5,179
Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1533 Post(s)
Liked: 1977
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreMo View Post
I know, but I asked about UHD patterns and not disc. In other words, video files patterns.
Hi,

The reality from current HDR calibration status is that having some correctly encoded patterns (or a reference external HDR pattern generator) is not capable to provide you the level of color fidelity you can have with SDR calibration. So even if you calibrate that HDR Grayscale, if you use different Metadata for the patterns (Mastering Metadata/Content medata settings also) it will affect final results, also calibrating perfectly that Grayscale; it doesn't guarantee to you an acceptable final result; if you start watching HDR movies the results will not reflect to your calibration accuracy adjustment. If you calibrate 5 different models the image will look so different, there many issues about calibration, the industry has started slowly to understand these problems but they don't know how to solve that.

There limited operations you can do, only Grayscale adjustments, but even doing this, there un-alighment of calibration controls with patterns.

Contrast/Brightness settings in HDR are not working like we know in SDR, Brightness/Contrast should left untouched, because the display gamut/tone mapping is based to these default settings.

3D LUT for consumer HDR displays is not possible also.

The reason I created that calibration disk it was because I wanted to have 3D LUT calibration for the entire video signal chain, something it was not possible before, since all were using only external pattern generators for 3D LUT.

It's very important always to count the source to the calibration, currently since authoring of an UHD disk is possible, test patterns are used as media files, but menu players are not reproducing them, you can say that you can load them to the TV's USB but I don't trust (if it's not tested) that the TV can handle the same media files from USB vs. HDR signal from HDMI Input.

For these reasons and many others I don't see currently that a release of a super-calibration disk for HDR will solve the color reproduction issues appear in HDR consumer world. I have watched about 50 HDR titles in calibrated TV's, sure it's excited stuff, entertaining, but when I want color fidelity I went back to 3D LUT correction with eeColor and SDR for accurate colors.

I don't want to give promises, release dates etc, if something it will be ready for release, it will be come out when It will be make sense to be available.
FreMo and mo949 like this.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Display Calibration

Tags
Pioneer Elite Kuro Pro 1150hd 50 Inch Plasma Hdtv

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off