Need some advice with my KDL42EX440 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 4 Old 01-31-2013, 07:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey everyone, new to this and a bit confused about this full/limited RGB thing

Basically, when on my PS3 i have it set to Y Pr/Cr setting with super white on. I can see the whole greyscale, progress the entire way, however when i have it in RGB mode in full OR limited the blacks are a solid shade of black under 16 no matter how high i turn the brightness, and the whites stop at 235 as well

Where things get complicated, is if i set my PC up to my TV it works the same way on full as it does on my PS3, but if i turn it to limited now i get a full spectrum again from below 16 to above 235 again, same as on the PS3 Y Pr/Cr mode with superwhite on, but NOT the same as it was on the PS3 in RGB limited.

Basically, should i be able to see a full spectrum from 0 all the way to the end? Or should the blacks be solid before 16 and the whites be solid after 235? Which one is the one im aiming for here

Also should i use RGB full or limited? Either way in RGB mode the blacks and whites arent giving me a complete scale (On PS3, like i said, limited through the video player when i have my PC set up gives me the full scale), and are solid before 16 and after 235, but the full option looks deeper and more vibrant, if i calibrate it to use full i will be getting the same amount of detail as i would on limited right? Or should i force Y Pr/Cr for everything (i read games are better in RGB mode)

Thanks everyone!
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post #2 of 4 Old 02-01-2013, 07:31 AM
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video range (16-235) or full range (0-255) are not important alone: they have to be coherent with the signal you're sending in.

The Video specification is made in a way that the usable display image is comprised between the (16-235) range. A display can show above and below that but it is not recommended, all the "video masters" are supposed to do not have under-black/over-white. this is for historical reasons and is a long story...

If you are using a computer, you can use the full range between 0-255 (or 0-1023 for a 10 bit device) and your monitor must be setup coherently in order to display the correct image.

I do not own a PS3 (well i do but is broken...) so i cannot be specific in understanding what you are trying to display: when you are talking of a greyscale, where the image came from? If you are playing from a DVD/BR and the image is indeed full range and you are looking for normal video level, then yes you should see clip under 16 and above 235. if you are trying to see a normal video range image then no, it should scale into the display color space...

can you give me some more detail in where the greyscale came from and how you display it?

Walter
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post #3 of 4 Old 02-01-2013, 08:05 AM
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Verify all these settings in your PS3, these are how it should be set for video and for use when calibrating.

Video Settings

BD Internet: "Allow"
BD/DVD Cinema Conversion: "Automatic"
BD/DVD Upscaler: "Normal"
BD/DVD Video Output Format (HDMI): "Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr" for TVs, "RGB" for PC Monitors
BD 1080p 24Hz Output: "Automatic"
BD/DVD Dynamic Range Control: "Off"
BD/DVD Audio Output Format (HDMI): "Linear PCM"
BD/DVD Audio Output Format (Optical Digital): "Bitstream"

Display Settings

RGB Full Range (HDMI): "Limited"
Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr Super-White (HDMI): "On"
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post #4 of 4 Old 02-01-2013, 04:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks both of you, so heres whats going on

Basically

Ps3:
Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr + Superwhite on = I get clipping all the way to the end if i turn the brightness high enough on the black clipping, grey scale is full and i get white clipping all the way to the end if i turn it high enough as well

Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr + Superwhite Off = I get clipping all the way to the end if i turn the brightness high enough on the black clipping, grey scale gives me blacks all the way until the end, whites are a solid shade of white starting at the notch before 235 no matter how high or low i turn the contrast, white clipping is barely visible, but i can get it to show up to about 232/233 if i play with the contrast enough

RGB + Full = Clipping up until before 16 (reference black) and it stops there, i can make them all disappear if i turn the brightness low enough but they do not go above reference black no matter how high i turn it, grey scale is solid black starting at the notch in front of 16 no matter how high i turn brightness, solid white starting at notch before 235 no matter how i set the contrast

RGB + Limited = Same as full more or less


PC (Connected to the same TV)

RGB + Limited (from nvidia control pannel) = Behaves same way as Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr on PS3, does NOT behave same way as RGB Limited on PS3

RGB + Full = Behaves same way as RGB Full or Limited on PS3


If i mess with the brightness directly from the nvidia control pannel, i can bypass and get the clipping all the way up (i know im not supposed to, so i dont but im saying i can) and get the greyscale to display a full range, but only if i do it internally from the pc itself, i cant get it to display using my settings on my TV


I will double check to make sure all those findings above are accurate, but im almost certain that they are

Edit: And as for where im getting the greyscale and black/white clipping scales from, burned the AVS video to a dvd from here on the forums
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