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post #1 of 15 Old 03-01-2013, 06:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry for another one of these threads, but I am new to this stuff. I have read a ton and know what I should be seeing. I have a calibrated TV in the house now, so it isn't that I am not used to a calibrated set.

I have the LG LW5600. The color temp is coming up as 8900-9000. I have set the TV at 89 Contrast, 51 Brightness. The backlight at 55 gives me 56Ftl for Daylight. Gamma is set at 2.2 on TV.

The color temp is the problem. I have done 30-80-100% patterns and there is just no red to be found. I think I can fix the problem with the service menu WB. I just don't know which way is correct. I have already tried lowering a lot of blue and green Contrast in the service menu and measured the screen to get red back, but is this correct to do this. I don't know how far you can subtract or add in there without detrimental affects.

When I did this earlier, I got a straight line gamma of 2.22 on a 10 point and all colors were under 2 on the delta without any CMS adjustments, but when I watched the TV after, the colors seemed really really deep and wasn't enjoyable. They were almost fake like someone colored them in really hard with crayons.

So after a long post here, the second time I have mentioned it- again sorry, I ask for help. I know where to go and make the adjustments in the service menu with the meter, just not sure which direction to take the blue out. The blue is consistently excessive in all of the 30-100 patterns. Do I add green and red in SM or just pull blue and watch meter for changes? Do I only work out of Contrast in the SM or Brightness only, or both?

My default SM numbers if it would help anyone willing to help me learn

RED C -192
Green C -192
Blue C - 172
All 3 Brightness - 64

Thanks for any help anyone can give me here or on a PM if you would like.

Ed

Ed

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post #2 of 15 Old 03-01-2013, 06:29 PM
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Greetings

I have not found a single recent LG set that could not be calibrated correctly with its user controls. Are you working in the expert 1 and 2 modes? Those are the best to start out in. If you are in another mode, then no surprise that you have run out of gas.

If Central park is the correct calibrated color temp ... then Expert 1 and 2 start you out in Jersey. Other modes start you out much further from Central park ... Denver ... Miami ... DC ... Soundslike you picked the Denver mode and you ran out of gas. And you want to look for more gas in the SM. How about the expert modes ... plenty of gas there.

Then again, your meter could be so far off ... since you know it is 8900K


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post #3 of 15 Old 03-01-2013, 06:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the reply Michael. I am in expert 1 and have also checked expert 2 and cinema. The meter is a new C3 that I just received on Wed. This is why I am so confused because I haven't seen many people saying the LG was too far off to start, but mine really is.

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post #4 of 15 Old 03-01-2013, 07:46 PM
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Greetings

i suspect there is an issue with your meter ... rather than the TV.

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post #5 of 15 Old 03-01-2013, 09:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah. I am beginning to think it must be the meter now. It is brand new, but those numbers seem really far off from the others I seen. I saw ChadB did his and his starting temp was close to 6500 and one he did for another member here was darn near exact at 6500 before calibration. My TV shouldn't be that far off. I just tried to do another few cracks at the temp. 80% pattern with my Sony Blue-ray player-hdmi through home receiver, directly into tv with hdmi, ps3- hdmi into tv and also the TV patterns themselves and all were 9300 to a high of 9764. I thought I had it with the tv patterns when it came up as 6503, but that was the simulated meter before I hit find source and found the C3 in the software.tongue.gif

Thanks for the responses. I guess I am going to have to go the support route on this one.

Update: I have now tried the meter on my Samsung plasma that was calibrated a few years back. The temp on it comes up about 5900. I also went and did a calibration on my sons LG plasma and the begging temp on it was 6300. It ended up calibrating really well for a first time. I can even go back in and make it better.

So now I am back to the original probelm. Something is wrong with my LG Lw5600 and it is 9000 on pre-cal temp. So can anyone help me in the SM to know should I eliminate a lot of blue or some blue and add red and green. I am just not sure where the limits to adding and subtracting in the SM are..

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post #6 of 15 Old 03-03-2013, 02:15 PM
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In addition to being in the Expert mode, there should be a preset colour temp- warm, standard etc. Make sure this is set to warm, then proceed to WB.

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post #7 of 15 Old 03-04-2013, 02:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eghill1125 View Post

......
So now I am back to the original probelm. Something is wrong with my LG Lw5600 and it is 9000 on pre-cal temp. So can anyone help me in the SM to know should I eliminate a lot of blue or some blue and add red and green. I am just not sure where the limits to adding and subtracting in the SM are..

Hi,

it seems that your SM settings for cold-medium-warm have been reset because the values are way to high for Blue and Green compared to my LG (LW4500/LW450)

Your meter seems to be ok measuring your other tv's

IF you have write down you values maybe you can try mine and work your way up in the user menu.

Cool:

Rc 192
Gc 143
Bc 180

Rcut 64
Gcut 64
Bcut 64

Medium:

Rc 193
Gc 125
Bc 127

Rcut 64
Gcut 64
Bcut 64

Warm:

Rc 192
Gc 101
Bc 59

Rcut 64
Gcut 64
Bcut 64

these are ORIGINAL SM settings for my LG 47LW4500 so maybe it does not work for you but you can try and calibrate grayscale in the Expert1/2 menu with my SM settings

Remember i am not responsible for
you change the wrong settings bla bla bla

Good luck and let me know if it turns out right for you.

greetzz

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post #8 of 15 Old 03-04-2013, 06:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Wow. Thank you so much for these original settings in your service menu. I did do another run last night and I ended up with 6507 on color temp when I was done, but that was with a starting point of about 6400 after I adjusted service menu values. I believe IIRC my blue was somewhere near that point when I did my changes if not maybe a little lower, but I don't think I lowered my green contrast that far to start. I will definitely look tonight and see where I put the contrast settings in the service menu and see how close they are to where your defaults were. I left the Brigtness at 64 for all. If they are close, I will probably set them like yours and try another run. It is good practice to keep trying anyways.. Quite enjoyable to me to do this for fun on my tv's.

Another quick questions from the good guys here. How would I go about changing individual color luminance if my set does not have that in the CMS. I am below 2 on every color except yellow and green, though they are both below 3 on the delta2000 I think is what it is on CalMan. I think all colors could be dropped in perfect if I had control on the luminence, but I have no controls for that. I just have individual Color and Tint. Anyone know what changes luminance for the colors without this control?

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post #9 of 15 Old 03-04-2013, 07:16 AM
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Unfortunately nothing changes it with the LG CMS. If the DeltaE is 3 or below, you are good to go.
Please read this article about CMS it is very interesting and enlightening.
http://www.tlvexp.ca/2013/02/color-management-system-pie-eat-half-or-all/
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post #10 of 15 Old 03-04-2013, 07:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Yeah. I figured there wasn't a setting somewhere that I missed. I am pretty happy with my end results now, but I am going to definitely check out the default WB settings Killerbeanl posted. If anyone has the LG LW5600 and would like to PM me what they have for their defaults, that would be much appreciated. I would think the LW series is the same as what he posted, but I could be wrong. I do now think that I hit the reset when I first started making changes in the WB. Rookie mistake. Nothing that I can't recover from at least. I guess we all had to learn at the beginning and I think after all the reading I have done, now I have a decent understanding of how things should be going.

Thanks for the help here... Appreciated....

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post #11 of 15 Old 03-05-2013, 05:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Well I tried Killerbeenl's white balance settings and I think they were closer than what I had obviusly, but I still think they were not quite the LW5600 defaults. I am not sure what the differences in the 2 sets are at the moment, but I think they probably do have somewhat different white balance settings. I ended up doing the calibration with those settings in the white balance and had a perfect straight line gamma of 2.22 and a delta error on the grayscale of 0.25. But.... there is definitely something wrong with the reral world watching of the TV. I am seeing large banding and blotchiness now, so I assume that I am under/over pushing one of the RGB values in the service menu to start.

I think it basically comes down to making a pitcher of ice tea. With the White Balance service menu numbers off to start, I can get the perfect 1cup of suger in the ice tea mix down to the exact grain of sugar, but if I am starting with brown sugar, it still will not taste right. My numbers are darn near exact on the full calibration, but seeing the blotchiness and banding is telling me I started with the brown sugar.

I guess my only resort at this point is to put myself at the mercy of LG and hope someone there is willing to give me the default values in the service menu so I can finish this sleepless nightmare.

On the other hand, my other 3 TV's in the house calibrated very well and I am quite happy with them. It is just too bad the LG is the large one with the best picture to start... when it was correct before. frown.gif

Thanks killer for trying. I appreciate the help

Ed

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post #12 of 15 Old 03-05-2013, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eghill1125 View Post

Well I tried Killerbeenl's white balance settings and I think they were closer than what I had obviusly, but I still think they were not quite the LW5600 defaults. I am not sure what the differences in the 2 sets are at the moment, but I think they probably do have somewhat different white balance settings. I ended up doing the calibration with those settings in the white balance and had a perfect straight line gamma of 2.22 and a delta error on the grayscale of 0.25. But.... there is definitely something wrong with the reral world watching of the TV. I am seeing large banding and blotchiness now, so I assume that I am under/over pushing one of the RGB values in the service menu to start.

I think it basically comes down to making a pitcher of ice tea. With the White Balance service menu numbers off to start, I can get the perfect 1cup of suger in the ice tea mix down to the exact grain of sugar, but if I am starting with brown sugar, it still will not taste right. My numbers are darn near exact on the full calibration, but seeing the blotchiness and banding is telling me I started with the brown sugar.

I guess my only resort at this point is to put myself at the mercy of LG and hope someone there is willing to give me the default values in the service menu so I can finish this sleepless nightmare.

On the other hand, my other 3 TV's in the house calibrated very well and I am quite happy with them. It is just too bad the LG is the large one with the best picture to start... when it was correct before. frown.gif

Thanks killer for trying. I appreciate the help

No problem:)

if you have grayscale banding it could be a result of bad cable (hdmi scart) connection and the more obvious is you "overdone" the 10 point grayscale settings.

keep the green with 10 point about 1 + or - max and calibrate the red and blue after that.

greetz

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post #13 of 15 Old 03-19-2013, 10:14 AM - Thread Starter
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I have moved this posting here to not hijack the HCFR thread...

Ok. Hopefully this shows up right.

These are my before and after files. This is the first full run of doing a before and after. Everything before was just experimenting.

My before and after have the same initial settings. I was trying to stay at 2.28 gamma, but might try again and get to 2.25. I do have 2pt, 10pt. and CMS available. The CMS does not have Luminence though. Just Color and Tint.

Backlight - 50
Contrast - 83
Brightness - 52
Color, Tint, and CMS were left untouched at this point. I have no idea what to do there without having larger Delta errors.

The 2pt. in the after has Rgain (-21), Ggain (0), Bgain (-20), The Cuts were left with exception of BCut +1

Now after this, if I turn on my Local dimming, the grayscale goes to hell and back, but the LG LW5600 needs the LD on for viewing. Without it, it is a washed up gray screen

I know others here would read these graphs and fix the colors and stuff right away, but I am really new and struggling.

Everything looks good on the graphs as far as I can tell, BUT, the colors on the TV after are still looking really bold and deep in an unnatural way. Not sure how to fix that.

Any helpful hints from the pros here? Maybe just a suggestion to put me in the right direction and I can go from there?

ISF2 Before.zip 2k .zip file
ISF2 After.zip 6k .zip file

PS.... In the above "before" calibration at 100%, lowering my red and blue on the 2 pt. to the values I showed, is this the right way to do that? Should I have added a bit of green? With that big of swings, is this then something I should fix in the service menu by adding in my green first?

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post #14 of 15 Old 03-19-2013, 02:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok here is the same After file as above with Local Dimming turned on for the run. There is a big difference.

The only other thing I did was take off the Black compensation in HCFR before I did this one.

So I think I would have to choose to have LD on and try to make it better from this one. Not sure how easy that will be. My gamma jumps from 2.28 to 2.40 just by turning on the LD and re-running the cal patterns.

Any thoughts?

ISF2 After LD ON.zip 1k .zip file
Attached Files
File Type: zip ISF2 After LD ON.zip (1.1 KB, 2 views)

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post #15 of 15 Old 03-20-2013, 12:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry for jumping this thread up on my own, but I didn't want to jump in on someone elses thread.

Can anyone here look at the above 2 ISF2 After files, one without and one with Local dimming on and see what I can do about this?

Both files are identical with the exception of adding 1 notch to color (LD ON FILE) to bring the colors better. Also this is both with my TV at a gamma of 2.4. I was shooting for 2.28 and the one without LD is 2.27, but skies to 2.4 with it on.
If I dropped the TV gamma to 2.2, would that maybe bring it around or is the differences in the RGB at 100%and down too much to expect it to give a flatter gamma? Both of these give the same light output too.

No idea... Amyone have a thought on what might be happening and where to jump in and try to fix? The blacks on the TV are a dull black without LD on and really not something I want to do.

I also did not change the contrast, backlight, or brightness on these 2 at all. I could maybe add one to the brightness, hard to tell on the AVDHD brightness pattern. 16 might flash a little if I do.

Ed

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