ee/ColorBox, LightSpace, and 3D LUT Calibration - Page 10 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 09-25-2015, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
I don't have a problem with running a profile because of the K10 and using the APL linear background found in madTPG on the LG EG9600 OLED (RIP). Tomorrow "God willing and the creek don't rise" I will have the EF9500 and see how asbl is.
I did post a patch set (about 2500) and used your tool to make dark/bright patch set, but the guy that tried it with his D3 said it didn't work. But maybe somebody will have success using that.
I don't have a D3 meter, so I am only going by what Chad and others have said, and knowing how the ASBL works on the LG OLED.



Ya, its to bad LG doesn't have a switch to turn off ASBL when calibrating.
Even when doing a normal grayscale calibration you can't run in real time, you have to change the window to full screen and then back to your window pattern.

ss
So without getting into eeColor box and 3D LUT, does this issue also impact a basic calibration of the EF9500 using internal 20-pt & CMS controls?

I have some experience with calibrating FALD and finding patterns that keep backlight at full brightness even when pattern is low IRE, but I have no experience with ABL & ASBL...
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Old 09-25-2015, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
You can use HCFR and Ted's disk to evaluate your eeColor LUT but you'll need DCG3 (or ArgyllCMS) to profile your display and calculate the LUT.
Is that the lowest-cost path to get into this? I've found ArgyllCMS and have some sense of what it does, but what is DCG3 for?

[Edit: I just read more carefully and now see that you said 'or' not 'and'. Where do I find DCG3? Between ArgyllCMS and DCG3, which is better/easier to learn?]

Last edited by fafrd; 09-25-2015 at 07:14 PM.
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Old 09-25-2015, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
The problem for profiling a LG OLED is ASBL. Chad has commented as others have also that the D3 meter is just to slow, causing the Auto Static brightness limiter to kick in when measuring low stimulus patterns.

So making a 3DLUT for use in a eecolor box or any 3DLUT processor will not work very well. The only way around that is to take individual measurements changing the background or have a pattern generator that will alternate between a window patter and full screen pattern, when using D3 meter.
Of-course the software would only use the reads from the window not the full screen.

ss
I have had some success in the past with my 55ec9300 getting around asbl. What has worked for me is shrinking the madTPG screen on the sides. Then in the background(extended desktop) run some low light pictures to change scenes every 10 seconds(windows theme) that doesnt trigger ABL. This tricks the panel because the picture is technically changing so asbl is not triggered.. I can measure a windowed white pattern for 15+ minutes without the luminance ever changing.
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Old 09-26-2015, 01:24 AM
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You can obviously use LightSpace HTL with an i1D3...
LightSpace does have a cost, but is the most advanced calibration system out there, and with the HTP version has a host of additional LUT Manipulation and Management tools that can take calibration to a new level.

A lot of users find the LUT Tools (including the LUT Image manipulation capability which enables external graphics programs to manipulate the LUT - See: http://www.lightillusion.com/lut_image.html ) a great way to provide calibration with specific 'offsets' for different viewing environments.

The tools also allow errors with profiling due to ABL/ASBL/etc. and low-cost probes to be overcome in a very simple and very effective way.

Having said that, the Anisometric patch sequence really has improved the results from displays with ABL/ASBL...

Steve

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Old 09-26-2015, 03:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Is that the lowest-cost path to get into this?
Yes.

Quote:
I've found ArgyllCMS and have some sense of what it does, but what is DCG3 for?
ArgyllCMS is a collection of command line tools and displayCalGui (DCG) is a graphical interface to make using the tools easy. DCG 3.x can be found here.
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Old 09-26-2015, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
So without getting into eeColor box and 3D LUT, does this issue also impact a basic calibration of the EF9500 using internal 20-pt & CMS controls?

I have some experience with calibrating FALD and finding patterns that keep backlight at full brightness even when pattern is low IRE, but I have no experience with ABL & ASBL...
Yes, if you want to do it in real time.

ss

"Don't worry be happy"
Setup dispcalGUI, 2nd link settings for 65EF9500
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ole...l#post35174522
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ole...l#post39870898
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Old 09-26-2015, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
Yes.



ArgyllCMS is a collection of command line tools and displayCalGui (DCG) is a graphical interface to make using the tools easy. DCG 3.x can be found here.
Thanks.
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Old 09-26-2015, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
Yes, if you want to do it in real time.

ss
So for basic calibration, if you perform a full greyscale sweep, incrementally adjust 21-pt (one pt., several pts, or the entire range), and then repeat the greyscale sweep, this ABSL issue does not cause a problem?
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Old 10-02-2015, 09:30 AM
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I want to try the internal patch generator with HDMI, once I order LS. I have my laptop on Extended mode with the display background set to black. Now, how do I set ICC profiles to Null manually, without the aid of Spacematch DCM?


How much does SpaceMatch add to the cost of LightSpace HTP?

Last edited by Pres2play; 10-02-2015 at 09:36 AM.
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Old 10-02-2015, 09:33 AM
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remove all ICC profiles under Color Management...
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calibration & profiling solutions: Lightspace, Spaceman, Calman, Argyll, ColorNavigator, basICColor
profiling & calibration workflow tools: Display Calibration Tools
meter: CR-250, Klein K-10 A, i1Pro, i1D3
AVS thread: Lightspace & Custom Color Patch Set & Gamma Calibration on Panasonic 65VT60
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Old 10-02-2015, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post
I want to try the internal patch generator with HDMI, once I order LS. I have my laptop on Extended mode with the display background set to black. Now, how do I set ICC profiles to Null manually, without the aid of Spacematch DCM?


How much does SpaceMatch add to the cost of LightSpace HTP?
SpaceMatch DCM is a nice little program, it loads with Windows by creating a scheduled task and provides a quick accurate look at Color-Channel behavior in the VCGT. If you use a computer "lol" and LS then I would pick it up.

Reference
http://www.lightillusion.com/spacematch_manual.html
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Old 10-02-2015, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Mike View Post
remove all ICC profiles under Color Management...

All? Or just the "display" profiles? Can they be reloaded or reset? Wish there was a shut off profiles button instead of remove button. Feel like I'm going to screw this up.


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Old 10-02-2015, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W3Rman View Post
SpaceMatch DCM is a nice little program, it loads with Windows by creating a scheduled task and provides a quick accurate look at Color-Channel behavior in the VCGT. If you use a computer "lol" and LS then I would pick it up.

Reference
http://www.lightillusion.com/spacematch_manual.html

Thanks, W3Rman. Found these instructions with the link...



For Windows Colour Management use the following instructions to disable its operation.
  • Go to Control Panel, Colour Management
  • Start with the 'Devices' tab
  • Remove all 'Profiles' associated with any display device
  • Go to 'Advanced' tab, 'Change System Defaults'
  • Again, Start with the 'Devices' tab
  • Remove all 'Profiles' associated
  • Go to 'Advanced' tab
  • Un-tick the box 'Use Windows display calibration'
  • Close everything
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Old 10-02-2015, 10:44 AM
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only under DEVICES tab...

calibration & profiling solutions: Lightspace, Spaceman, Calman, Argyll, ColorNavigator, basICColor
profiling & calibration workflow tools: Display Calibration Tools
meter: CR-250, Klein K-10 A, i1Pro, i1D3
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Old 10-02-2015, 10:45 AM
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Yeah, those were in the attached pic to my post, I thought they would be helpful

#1 Calibration Disk / Best Support: Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk
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Old 10-02-2015, 11:02 AM
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Finally, for EDID "Limited" is selected for input range. Hope this is correct.




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Old 10-02-2015, 11:22 AM
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I get a message that built-in profiles cannot be deleted.




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Old 10-02-2015, 11:29 AM
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Just noticed in Device tab, there are no profiles listed. Does it mean the profiles are not active?



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Last edited by Pres2play; 10-02-2015 at 11:41 AM.
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Old 10-02-2015, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post
Finally, for EDID "Limited" is selected for input range. Hope this is correct.
It's usually better to set the card to full range and let the calibration software determine which levels are sent.
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Old 10-02-2015, 11:44 AM
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Under Devices Tab not seeing any profiles listed is exactly what you want.

Check the box "use my settings with this device"
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Old 10-02-2015, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
It's usually better to set the card to full range and let the calibration software determine which levels are sent.

I will definitely check this tonight. Thanks.
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Old 10-02-2015, 04:21 PM
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Well, someone in Virgina got an early Christmas gift, my eeColor box went to the wrong address.


EDIT: My mistake folks, should have copied and pasted the tracking number. Delivery is on Tuesday. Whew!
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Last edited by Pres2play; 10-02-2015 at 04:41 PM.
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Old 10-02-2015, 05:08 PM
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Woooohoooo!

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Old 10-02-2015, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
It's usually better to set the card to full range and let the calibration software determine which levels are sent.

You are correct, the graphics card should be set to full range. TV Levels (limited range) can then be set using the LightSpace VideoScale function. Here it is from the ee manual...


eeColor LUT Box LUT Format
Depending on the display and source in use (data range, or TV level) the eeColor LUT Box may requires LUTs in a particular data range.
For TV Levels, after the calibration LUT has been generated via LightSpace CMS in the normal way, use the 'Edit/LUT Manipulation/VideoScale' function to format the LUT data correctly.
For data range display workflows the re-scale will not be needed.

http://www.lightillusion.com/eecolor_manual.html
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Old 10-02-2015, 11:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post
You are correct, the graphics card should be set to full range. TV Levels (limited range) can then be set using the LightSpace VideoScale function. Here it is from the ee manual...


eeColor LUT Box LUT Format
Depending on the display and source in use (data range, or TV level) the eeColor LUT Box may requires LUTs in a particular data range.
For TV Levels, after the calibration LUT has been generated via LightSpace CMS in the normal way, use the 'Edit/LUT Manipulation/VideoScale' function to format the LUT data correctly.
For data range display workflows the re-scale will not be needed.

http://www.lightillusion.com/eecolor_manual.html

Hi, the VideoScale is only a filter you apply to your correction LUT (cLUT), not related with your output settings.

For eeColor users, once they have generate the correction 3D LUT Table, the last step before exporting the cLUT to eeColor 65.TXT format, it's to apply the VideoScale filter.

We do this for eeColor because eeColor's internal 10-bit table is 0-255, the videoscale is mapping the correction to 16-235 levels, since we will use it for HT enviroment / blu-ray content etc.

The VideoScale is not required for Lumagen users because it's internal 10-bit table can control video levels (16-235) only.

LightSpace has 2 options about VideoScale Filter:

VideoScale with passblack and VideoScale with clip black.

The VideoScale with Pass Black is mapping the levels from 0-255 to 16-235 and later it applies a UNITY to 0-16 levels. so all below black information is visible.

The VideoScale with Clipping Black is mapping the levels from 0-255 to 16-235 and later and all the 0-16 levels are becoming 16. so all below black information is becoming 16, no below black information is visible.

One scenario where VideoScale with Clipping Black is helpful is when we have a display which it's difficult to set with success it's near black with a brightness with flashing bars pattern using the display's internal brightness control setting.

For example lets say we have a display...when we display a brightness pattern with flashing bars, we don't see 17,18 flashing bars with internal brightness setting at zero....

but when we use +1 brightness, we see 17,18 flashing bars correctly but we see the 15 and 16 flashing also.

In that case when we will apply VideoScale with Clipping Black, the 16 and below bars (15,14 etc) will become 16 also, so we will be able to see correctly see the near black details of 17,18 levels to that specific display.

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S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
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Old 10-03-2015, 12:20 AM
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Thanks for that information, Ted! Will either filter work, for exporting the cLUT?

Wasn't even aware of the Clipping Black filter for use with brightness patterns. Nice.
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Old 10-03-2015, 12:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post
Thanks for that information, Ted! Will either filter work, for exporting the cLUT?

Wasn't even aware of the Clipping Black filter for use with brightness patterns. Nice.
After the colorspace conversion, VideoScale filter is the last step you do before exporting the cLUT to eeColor65.TXT format.

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Old 10-04-2015, 12:25 PM
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I'm slowly getting the hang of LS while I wait for the ee box to arrive. One small problem I'm having, is getting LS to use the correct ports for the CR-250 and CR-100 meters. I have to re-assign them each time I open LS.


After reading the LightSpace LUT manual and the Profiling manual, I was able to navigate the menu options and take a few measurements. Perhaps the hardest part, was understanding the color patch sliders, but Meter Matching (profiling), and setting the White Balance was also new to me using this system. I'm sure learning the many filters and LS features will keep me busy for a while.


Here are some images.



1000 pt LUT with skewed blue component. (I have to work on the meter timing to get more accurate reading, the measurement only took 12 minutes!)








White balance using display's gain control.


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Last edited by Pres2play; 10-04-2015 at 01:26 PM.
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Old 10-04-2015, 01:51 PM
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I forgot to change the Color Space from Auto to Native in the display when I took the readings, so scratch all the measurements above. Again, the 3D cLUT is with the Auto mode selected.

Last edited by Pres2play; 10-04-2015 at 01:55 PM.
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Old 10-04-2015, 01:59 PM
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Convert Color Space
"see attached"
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