ee/ColorBox, LightSpace, and 3D LUT Calibration - Page 9 - AVS Forum
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post #241 of 253 Old 08-09-2013, 02:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

I take it during the LS profiling process, the VT60 has RGB being inputted, correct?

Have you tried doing the complete LS profiling process with the Radiance as the pattern generator, outputting 4:2:2?

Yes RGB Video (16-235) about 11% window patterns are inputted to the VT60.

Yes I have tried 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 in place of RGB Video. My guess is because of how eecolor works with 4:2:2 processing at 10 bit then outputting at 12 bit, I get better results when running a large profile using RGB Video window patterns. However imo its more of a subjective choice.
And its my understanding that a cube is based on RGB when using LS.

ss

SS, eecolor is working internally @ RGB

If you send YCbCr 4:2:2, inside the eeColor is converted to RGB for internal processing (16bit) and for appyling your selected LUT memory (10bit) and then it's converted to YCbCr 4:2:2 with for the output.

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post #242 of 253 Old 08-09-2013, 03:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Did you miss the part about the Radiance outputting 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 along with the same size pattern that ted is going to use in his upcoming Blu Ray disc.
Also if I have the Radiance set for outputting 4:2:2 the VT60 is inputting 4:2:2
Also you may want to read the part about how eecolor handles 4:2:2

For me the only difference using Ted's disc and the Radiance as a pattern source, is there going to be any difference outputting RGB video as a digital signal.?


SS, there will be 2 ways available for you to improve your results of your current Setup:

1) Use my upcoming disk for as a pattern generator from your OPPO. (free way of improvement)

2) Buy/Rent JETI or Photoreseach Spectro. (Pain way of improvement)

I read your above comments about the method you found that is improving your results but this method is incorrent. You got a reduced Color Space.. frown.gif

LightSpace calculates the best possible correction for your display, once it knows what your display is capable, after a full 17-Point Profiling, it generated the total correction or whole colorpoints at once... There is no way to improve this.... It can only be improved if LightSpace improve/change/add something new to it's internal color engine.

LightSpace is not based 'by luck final results' like other software solutions which 5 Calibration Runs with give you 5 different final results... With LightSpace you are doing the profiling only once. No need to re-profile again.

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post #243 of 253 Old 08-09-2013, 03:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

SS, eecolor is working internally @ RGB

If you send YCbCr 4:2:2, inside the eeColor is converted to RGB for internal processing (16bit) and for appyling your selected LUT memory (10bit) and then it's converted to YCbCr 4:2:2 with for the output.

Hmmmm... I wonder, when you send the eeColor YCbCr 4:2:2, does it support different decoding matrixes (BT.601, BT.709, BT.2020)? If so, I suppose it auto selects the decoding matrix based on the resolution of the video?

How about different primaries (SMPTE-C, BT.709, EBU/PAL, BT.2020, DCI-P3)? E.g. what happens if you have created a 3dlut for BT.709 primaries with LightSpace, but then you send DVD data through the eeColor?

Just wondering...
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post #244 of 253 Old 08-09-2013, 03:33 AM
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post

How about different primaries (SMPTE-C, BT.709, EBU/PAL, BT.2020, DCI-P3)? E.g. what happens if you have created a 3dlut for BT.709 primaries with LightSpace, but then you send DVD data through the eeColor?

Just wondering...

If you are using a Blu-Ray player for DVD Playback then the Blu-Ray Player internally is changing the DVD colorspace to 1080p Rec.709 to its output, so eecolor will get rec.709.

If the Blu-Ray is doing this conversion correctly.. is another story...but you can check this out with some reference patterns.

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post #245 of 253 Old 08-09-2013, 03:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

If you are using a Blu-Ray player for DVD Playback then the Blu-Ray Player internally is changing the DVD colorspace to 1080p Rec.709 to its output, so eecolor will get rec.709.

If the Blu-Ray is doing this conversion correctly.. is another story...but you can check this out with some reference patterns.

Are you talking about the decoding matrix or the gamut?

I would already be surprised if a typical Blu-Ray player converted the decoding matrix from BT.601 to BT.709 when upscaling DVDs and outputting them as YCbCr. I would guess that many Blu-Ray players are not clever enough for that. But what do I know, maybe they actually do that.

However, I would be even *more* surprised if there are (m)any Blu-Ray players out there performing *gamut conversion*. You know, for gamut conversion you need to convert every pixel of every frame to linear light first, then perform a matrix operation and then convert it back to gamma corrected light. So you need two "power" operations for every pixel, and those are not cheap in hardware. I think it's likely that the majority of Blu-Ray players don't do this. Or am I wrong? Anybody knows for sure?
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post #246 of 253 Old 08-09-2013, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Iron Mike View Post

what do you mean by "slider set at 1" and "loop back"... did u mean CLOSED LOOP ?

also, run QP with primaries + secondaries - no need for LLH with K10-A, takes 5 times as long with no benefit...

with the i1D3 the LLH is crucial...

1^3, yes closed loop.

I take it you have compared your K10-A using LLH and not using LLH. Are you using any delay, if so how much. ?
Yes Steve also suggested turning off LLH.

I will run a full 17^3 tonight using the same pre settings in my VT60, this time I will use 4:2:2 and turn off LLH but still use 0.50 delay.

btw, Steve had asked me to run a 17^3 and then use that 17^3 profile as a active LUT and rerun a 17^3, he did add that doing that was not necessary.

That said I am still not saying for sure that running a 2nd active profile is bad, but at-leased with your compelling reasons why not to do a 2nd run I have cleared my head and now go back to having a open mind on all of this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

SS, We use VideoScale for eeColor because the eeColor's LUT Table Memory Stores the LUT there @ 0-255 (0-1024 @ 10bit). When you are using Lumagen as a Pattern Generator the Patterns are generated @ 16-235, so with the VideoScale, Lightspace with a complex algorithm is moving the Black from 0 to 16 and the 255 to 235 and this is interacting to the whole LUT Data.

For Lumaget 3D-Cube Calibrations , VideoScale is not required because Lumagen's LUT Table Memory Stores the LUT there @ 16-235 already.

Yes you are correct, I already know all of what you are saying and the results were right in front of me (if it was a snake it would have bitten me). Meaning why the Cube was compressed when using RGB video.
I always used 4:2:2 setting in my Mini for pattern output. Until I reread what Steve's suggestion was on setting up the Radiance as a generator, and also about how eecolor handles 4:2:2. That's why I have focused on RGB video and running two full profiles.

ss.
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post #247 of 253 Old 08-12-2013, 01:04 PM
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Anyone using a Darbee with this?
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post #248 of 253 Old 08-12-2013, 01:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Anyone using a Darbee with this?

I do.

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post #249 of 253 Old 08-12-2013, 03:43 PM
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I do.

Just making sure it works without any hiccups. About to purchase a new high end dlp and want the eecolor as a video processor
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post #250 of 253 Old 08-12-2013, 03:43 PM
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Me too, eeColor + Darbee (20% HD Mode)
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post #251 of 253 Old 08-13-2013, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

I do.

Where have you been buzz? I thought maybe one of the Florida sink holes swallowed you up...


EDIT: I see, you have been in the audio threads.. wink.gif

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post #252 of 253 Old 08-14-2013, 07:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by turbe View Post

Where have you been buzz? I thought maybe one of the Florida sink holes swallowed you up...


EDIT: I see, you have been in the audio threads.. wink.gif

Hiya Mr. turbe,

The closest thing I have to a sink hole is an irrigation well I had drilled last week in Naples. The price of water in Collier County is so high that it'll pay for itself in two years. tongue.gif That's the only week I'll spend in FL until October however.

Spying on me in the audio forums? lol Let me make one statement and then I'll tell you what I've be up to. No matter how excellent a display calibration might be, home theater enjoyment can be increased by no less than 100% with a tuned audio system, especially the sub woofer(s).

The learning process for audio is more difficult than for video although it is impossible to obtain the same level of "accuracy" due to the room itself, at least not without spending huge bucks on room enhancements. In Wisconsin I have a smallish speaker system due to the fact that I'm in an apartment and don't want the neighbors complaining. The sub is EQ'd with a miniDSP 2x4. The sound is good enough that my wife finally allows me to crank it up a bit. Blu-Ray high def audio not withstanding, even Sunday night's three hour country music TV special in 5.1 was terrific. While in FL last week I took delivery of a Power Sound Audio VS30 sub and all I can say is "awesome". It'll be a fun Fall when I get back because I'll be EQing it with a Behringer DSP1124P Feedback Destroyer Pro.

Also, I don't recall if I posted in this forum, but I'm able to accurately run a VT50 in Pnl Brt High with the use of 3D LUTs in an eeBox. Light output is about 50 FtL which gives me enough luminance for day viewing without have the rising black problem of the F8500s. rolleyes.gif

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post #253 of 253 Old 10-31-2013, 05:38 PM - Thread Starter
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I ran a 4913 point display profile with the latest version of LightSpace on my Samsung F8000 LCD today. The meter was a K10-A and it took 41 minutes. LightSpace did a great job holding 2.2 Gamma, something I've been having trouble getting CM 5.2 to do (maybe something wrong the way I set up the software).

F8000 AdvancedColorManagementReport_AVS.pdf 391k .pdf file
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File Type: pdf F8000 AdvancedColorManagementReport_AVS.pdf (391.2 KB, 60 views)

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