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post #601 of 624 Old 05-29-2015, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally
The APL settings in Calman don't work for madTPG. Only window size.

Can you tell me in what way it is not working for you? We are not aware of any issues with the APL patterns in madTPG. If it is not working, it would be a bug.
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post #602 of 624 Old 05-29-2015, 02:13 PM
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The window sizing works just fine, its the background APL. In madTPG there are three different APL backgrounds, those don't work in the official release of CM. I use split screen, on my PC is the desktop, on my display is madTPG.

There may be some benefit using the "APL Linear" background when calibrating a LG OLED 65EG9600. Because of how the EG9600 has a static ABL or ASBL.

ss
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post #603 of 624 Old 05-29-2015, 02:15 PM
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I confirm problems with APL settings.
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post #604 of 624 Old 05-29-2015, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJoker View Post
Sorry I don't meant that for madTPG.

First I want to use CM Pattern for my first steps with the eecolor.

And I want to know which APL level I have to set up for my VT60.

The pattern size will be 6%
If you are going to use a background, constant gray of 20 or 25% should be ok.
I never used a background APL when calibrating my VT60, mainly because you probably will get better meter reads if you don't use onscreen for your meter placement.

The bigger the area to a point the meter reads, the more information your meter has about the color.

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post #605 of 624 Old 05-29-2015, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zimbalo
I confirm problems with APL settings
In what way is it not working for you?

I just tested madTPG and constant APL and it is working as expected. If you can tell me how it is not working, that would help. I compared a constant APL 18% to a user defined (Pattern Size = 10 and Pattern APL = 18) and the two match. For a Window at level 16, the background is 60 and the window is 16. For a 235 window, the background is 35 and the window is 235.

Also tried the yellow window from the color checker page. It has a purple-like background vs. black on a normal window.

Last edited by sspears; 05-29-2015 at 04:16 PM.
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post #606 of 624 Old 05-29-2015, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears View Post
In what way is it not working for you?

I just tested madTPG and constant APL and it is working as expected. If you can tell me how it is not working, that would help. I compared a constant APL 18% to a user defined (Pattern Size = 10 and Pattern APL = 18) and the two match. For a Window at level 16, the background is 60 and the window is 16. For a 235 window, the background is 35 and the window is 235.

Also tried the yellow window from the color checker page. It has a purple-like background vs. black on a normal window.
linear and gamma light APLs are working as expected but if you choose "constant gray" in the madTPG window, CM patterns always show a black background.
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post #607 of 624 Old 05-31-2015, 10:47 PM
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I try it again when I use 6% CM Pattern how I set the APL Level for my VT60? Also 6%?
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post #608 of 624 Old 06-01-2015, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJoker View Post
I try it again when I use 6% CM Pattern how I set the APL Level for my VT60? Also 6%?
Typically you want a higher APL. Most content varies between 10-30% on average. You probably want to pick a number based on the content you primarily watch. I'd go in the 12-15% for darker shows and the 20-25% range for brighter content.


The difference between higher and lower APL calibrations are more subtle than moving from variable APL to constant APL.
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post #609 of 624 Old 06-01-2015, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJoker View Post
I try it again when I use 6% CM Pattern how I set the APL Level for my VT60? Also 6%?
The problem with the VT60 is the white level keeps shifting, usually it keeps dropping slightly each time it shifts when measuring a white window .
So unless Calman has a setting like argyll for white point drift there is not much of a benefit using a APL background..

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post #610 of 624 Old 06-07-2015, 02:24 PM
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Did anyone know how I can improve my result in combination with an VT60 and a d3 sensor? My first calibration with the latest beta of calman which ss posted and the eecolor we're awful I got an dE of 5.

Did I have to calibrate greyscale and gamma before I create the lut? For some testing I created a quick profile with 879 reads
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post #611 of 624 Old 06-07-2015, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJoker View Post
Did anyone know how I can improve my result in combination with an VT60 and a d3 sensor? My first calibration with the latest beta of calman which ss posted and the eecolor we're awful I got an dE of 5.

Did I have to calibrate greyscale and gamma before I create the lut? For some testing I created a quick profile with 879 reads
So calibrate the grayscale, but try and leave the gamut as wide as possible.

For Plasma you really need at least 3000 reads.

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post #612 of 624 Old 06-07-2015, 09:38 PM
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Before I start did I have do to a ddc reset of the eecolor over calman? So I calibrate the greyscale with active eecolor one of the 6 memory spaces active right?

How I get better results with time or point based lut?
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post #613 of 624 Old 06-07-2015, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJoker View Post
Before I start did I have do to a ddc reset of the eecolor over calman? So I calibrate the greyscale with active eecolor one of the 6 memory spaces active right?

How I get better results with time or point based lut?
Make sure you've reset the eeColor inside CalMAN, It should do it for you, but doing it manually will make sure. While the eeColor is transparent for the most part doing the calibration with it inline makes the most sense.

Point based gives you the best control. For a plasma 3000-3500 points is the knee where additional points start yielding very small gains in performance. Going from 3000 to 5000 reads gets you about the same increment more performance as going from 2500 to 3000.

Most people see the best results when they've done some level of optimizations inside the display. So while you don't need to do a full calibration in the plasma, at least get the cuts and gains dialed in and make sure the gamut is as wide as possible before starting.

Lastly in terms of range, make sure either your plasma isn't clipping up to 255, or make sure that you limit the profile range to 235.

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post #614 of 624 Old 06-07-2015, 11:18 PM
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Thx sotti for the informations I'am realy confused and I'm sure that I do some mistakes ..
I set the Gammut of the TV to native so the box have some room to work.

Buzz said in his first post that we don't have to use the DDC Reset?
Did I get this right I only try to get a good wight balance with cuts and gains and do not calibrate RGB and Gamma before? Is the colorbox doing this for me?

Can please someone help me out this thing makes me crazy here are my following steps please correct me if something is wrong:

1. connect PC with eecolor HDMI Input and HDMI Output with VT60 (1920*1080@24hz)
2. Load Profile 1 on the eecolor and run a DDC Reset
2. Using CalMAN as pattern generator (Size 11% and 18% APL)
3. Video Levels 16-235 and Target Gamma 2.20 - REC709
4. Whitbalance with guts and gains at 30 and 100 IRE
5. No manually RGB and Gamma calibration
6. Autocal 3D LUT with 4000 Points

I'm using the latest CalMAN beta and a d3 profiled against an i1pro2
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post #615 of 624 Old 06-08-2015, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJoker View Post
1. connect PC with eecolor HDMI Input and HDMI Output with VT60 (1920*1080@24hz)
2. Load Profile 1 on the eecolor and run a DDC Reset
2. Using CalMAN as pattern generator (Size 11% and 18% APL)
3. Video Levels 16-235 and Target Gamma 2.20 - REC709
4. Whitbalance with guts and gains at 30 and 100 IRE
5. No manually RGB and Gamma calibration
6. Autocal 3D LUT with 4000 Points

I'm using the latest CalMAN beta and a d3 profiled against an i1pro2
If you're using 24hz output, make sure the VT60 is in 96hz mode, native 24hz is a little unstable for the d3.

With a PC connected to CalMAN make sure you eiter have the driver correctly configured for full range and uncheck the "expand patterns to PC Levels" box or leave the box checked and run with the driver on RGB limited or YCC mode.

The rest sounds about right.

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post #616 of 624 Old 06-09-2015, 03:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJoker View Post
5. No manually RGB and Gamma calibration
I would manually calibrate RGB as close as I can and have the gamma on the VT60 selected to get me 2.2-2.22.

If you've got the time to experiment, try it both ways and notice in the color checker what happens with the grayscale readings and average/max dEs.

Since content is mastered all over the place when it comes to gamma or what they now like to call EOTF, I precalibrate my Samsung plasma to 2.2 (or very close to 2.2) and then run my original LUTs for 2.2. Then I retarget and make a 2.3 and a BT1886. On TV broadcast, I tend to leave it on the 2.3 setting as it has a little more pop without making things look harsh. On movies, if I'm in a picky mood, I'll try all three and settle on the one that looks the best for that movie.
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post #617 of 624 Old 06-09-2015, 03:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

With a PC connected to CalMAN make sure you eiter have the driver correctly configured for full range and uncheck the "expand patterns to PC Levels" box ...snip...
Is this only for madVR TPG ?

Do you find any benefit in using madVR over the built in pattern generator?
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post #618 of 624 Old 06-09-2015, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post
Is this only for madVR TPG ?

Do you find any benefit in using madVR over the built in pattern generator?
If you're doing a LUT for madVR then it has the advantage of being able to validate your LUT.

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post #619 of 624 Old 06-09-2015, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post
Is this only for madVR TPG ?

Do you find any benefit in using madVR over the built in pattern generator?
Hi Jim, since you use eeColor and the 3D LUT correction table will be active to eeColor's memory, the build in pattern generator will have no problem to measure your post-calibration performance.

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post #620 of 624 Old 06-09-2015, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post
If you're using 24hz output, make sure the VT60 is in 96hz mode, native 24hz is a little unstable for the d3.

With a PC connected to CalMAN make sure you eiter have the driver correctly configured for full range and uncheck the "expand patterns to PC Levels" box or leave the box checked and run with the driver on RGB limited or YCC mode.

The rest sounds about right.
Are you sure the VT60 will stay at 96hz, if using a PC as the pattern generator.

Wouldn't it be best to set your video card to 1080@60hz set at 0-255 and the output set at 16-235 for a VT60 set to legal video (16-235)

I know if using madVR/TPG you would want to set as stated above. You may also have to use madTweaker to force you video card to PC level 0-255.

ss

Last edited by sillysally; 06-09-2015 at 06:07 PM. Reason: Thanks to Teds PM, showing a typo
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post #621 of 624 Old Yesterday, 12:04 PM
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Hi All,

I have a few questions regarding the process of creating a LUT and using it successfully on my eeColor/LG 930V OLED TV. So hopefully I'm looking for some advice if possible.

My equipment list is as follows to give you an idea of what I have to work with: -
  • LG 55EC930V OLED 1080p
  • EE Color 3D Cube (not the Spectracal one)
  • i1 Pro
  • i1 Display Pro (Retail)
  • Calman Enthusiast edition v 5.5.0
  • Tesco Hudl 2 android table running Spectracal MobileForge for pattern generation to EEColor
  • IguanaWork IR USB transceiver that I've written a Java program for that simulates 'mute' from the 930V remote control every 30 seconds to suppress the dimming that happens on the 930V with static images

Before I start any kind of calibration or profiling of meters should I first click on Reset DDC for the EEColor to upload the 3D Lut so that the EE Color is basically mapping 1:1 (effectively a bypass) ?

While this is a 930V specific question should I set the TV to be wide gamut and let the EE Color reign in the colors back to D65 Rec HD 709 spec?

When I'm creating a profile (using Raw XYZ) for my i1 Display Pro from the i1Pro should I use 100% primaries or 75% primaries?

Once my i1 Display Pro has the profile should I be looking at fixing up the grey scale IRE points on the TV or should this just be left to the 3D Lut to handle? Additionally should I ignore the gamma tracking and just get the RGB values equal rather than achieving a flat gamma response (calibrating IRE points on 930V is a real pain).

In the Calman session options there is the option for the Luminance Response target with various options. The default is BT 1886: 1, what does the value 1 translate too? Would I be better off just going for Power 2.4?

So far with my experiments I'm getting a bit of posterization with dark colours compared to when the EE Color is in bypass mode. Sorry for so many questions but these are queries that I've not seen answers to in the forums or I've just missed them.

Many thanks
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post #622 of 624 Old Yesterday, 11:50 PM
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use 100% intensity for profiling.

BT.1886 and gamma 2.4 are effectively the same on an OLED as black is truly no light.

The one thing to worry about with the LG OLEDs is they then to dim after a while and pattern changes don't seem to be enough to defeat this.

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post #623 of 624 Old Today, 02:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post
use 100% intensity for profiling.

BT.1886 and gamma 2.4 are effectively the same on an OLED as black is truly no light.

The one thing to worry about with the LG OLEDs is they then to dim after a while and pattern changes don't seem to be enough to defeat this.
Hi Joel,

So last night I used 75% primaries to do my profiling and seems to get decent results calibrating a 2.4 gamma grayscale on the TV followed by a 4000 point 3D Cube LUT. I may try again tonight and see if profiling again with 100% primaries makes a difference

As for the autodim feature of the LG OLED I noticed that when the display auto-dims after a certain amount of time that if you hit the mute button on the basic remote it briefly displays the new mute status in a large graphic at the lower centre of the screen. This defeats the auto-dimming as far as I can tell though my tests were not exhaustive on this. My solution to this as a hack was to buy an IguanaWorks USB Infrared Dongle and use WinLIRC to learn and be able to send the MUTE remote command. I then wrote a bit of Java in NetBeans that uses telnet to talk to WinLIRC every 30 seconds to send the MUTE command to the TV.

Ideally it would be awesome to have an option in MobileForge to display a different 18% pattern (perhaps two blocks side by side) with almost an inverse luminosity to the previous pattern every 30 seconds or make it configurable. Just something to interleave with existing patterns to defeat the auto dimming.
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post #624 of 624 Old Today, 06:32 AM
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The difference between 75% and 100% in minimal to none for flat panels.

Just more light keeps the spectrophotometer in it's optimal range, since the i1 struggles at really low light.

So on a flat panel not a big deal, but if you say pick a number, I'd pick 100%.

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