eeColor Processor - CalMAN - 3D LUTs - Page 22 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 08-31-2015, 11:45 AM
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Ted,

Thanks for such a thorough reply.

Apparently, I was doing it correctly.

I'm using the same everything connection wise that I use to upload LUTs to the eecolor from Calman. Matter of fact, I leave the computer end connected all the time to help keep up with which connections are usb 2.0 and works with which devices. Makes running LUTs a little simpler if I don't have to rethink why something stopped working that worked fine a week earlier.

I'll start using the switch on the eecolor rather than leaving in on continuously.

Thanks
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Old 08-31-2015, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by JimP View Post
Ted,

Thanks for such a thorough reply.

Apparently, I was doing it correctly.

I'm using the same everything connection wise that I use to upload LUTs to the eecolor from Calman. Matter of fact, I leave the computer end connected all the time to help keep up with which connections are usb 2.0 and works with which devices. Makes running LUTs a little simpler if I don't have to rethink why something stopped working that worked fine a week earlier.

I'll start using the switch on the eecolor rather than leaving in on continuously.

Thanks

Connect it to an another USB port and retry the eeColor application to see if it will display to you the same errors. Maybe it's a connection error that CalMAN may have also but it's not displaying an error dialog.


You can upload the The eeColor 3D LUT file be something like that:

1_EECOLOR_1107C01173.TXT

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Old 08-31-2015, 01:43 PM
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Ted,

Since I'm getting dE 2000 in the .6x to .8x range when verifying (500 point), wouldn't that tell me that Calman is communicating properly with the eecolor processor?
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Old 08-31-2015, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by JimP View Post
Ted,

Since I'm getting dE 2000 in the .6x to .8x range when verifying (500 point), wouldn't that tell me that Calman is communicating properly with the eecolor processor?
It's strange to have problem with communication using TruVue Application only.

dE reports are not telling the whole story. You can have 0.5dE if you measure 5.000 random points, while the same time you can have banding or distortions. This can happen when the software is trying to provide you the lowest dE without counting the linearity of the corrections.

That's why it's important to visual verify some patterns with color ramps with 3D LUT correction active, to confirm that there no problems visually to colors gradients/shades.

Clipping/distortions can be identified when you will have a tool to visualize the correction LUT data.

That's why I'm asking you to upload your eeColor TXT file.

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Old 08-31-2015, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi Jim,

Seems like a connection problem, some ideas you have to try is to replace the USB cable with a new one, don't use a USB 3.0 port but only a USB 2.0, install the latest VCP drivers again. (take a screenshot of the errors and upload the picture next time it will appear)
Just to say that VCP drivers are updated to be Windows 10 compatible.

Here is the link: http://www.ftdichip.com/Drivers/VCP.htm

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Old 08-31-2015, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
It's strange to have problem with communication using TruVue Application only.

dE reports are not telling the whole story. You can have 0.5dE if you measure 5.000 random points, while the same time you can have banding or distortions. This can happen when the software is trying to provide you the lowest dE without counting the linearity of the corrections.

That's why it's important to visual verify some patterns with color ramps with 3D LUT correction active, to confirm that there no problems visually to colors gradients/shades.

Clipping/distortions can be identified when you will have a tool to visualize the correction LUT data.

That's why I'm asking you to upload your eeColor TXT file.
Ted,
Even zipped the file was too large to upload here.
Sent it to your displaycalibrations address
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Old 08-31-2015, 10:59 PM
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Ted,
Just ran a 2500 patch set and the average dE2000 was .7
The two readings that were 6.13 and 5.26 dE were so dark that on the color checker it was very difficult to impossible to see the difference. I could probably clear that up by increasing the K10A's read time but I doubt the gain would be worth slowing down the 10,000 point LUTs process.

With that said, the 21 pt grayscale, 15% was a touch pink. I've come across this before and was able to clear it up by adjusting that level in the 1D up/down back to default. Don't know if Calman is posting a correction to 15% 1d that it shouldn't or if something is wonky on the eecolor. Perhaps the file I sent you will shed some light on this.
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Old 09-02-2015, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by JimP View Post
Ted,
Just ran a 2500 patch set and the average dE2000 was .7
The two readings that were 6.13 and 5.26 dE were so dark that on the color checker it was very difficult to impossible to see the difference. I could probably clear that up by increasing the K10A's read time but I doubt the gain would be worth slowing down the 10,000 point LUTs process.

With that said, the 21 pt grayscale, 15% was a touch pink. I've come across this before and was able to clear it up by adjusting that level in the 1D up/down back to default. Don't know if Calman is posting a correction to 15% 1d that it shouldn't or if something is wonky on the eecolor. Perhaps the file I sent you will shed some light on this.
Hi Jim, this is the 1D LUT Viewer of LightSpace with your CalMAN generated 3D LUT opened. As you can see the correction at specific areas are not as linear as possible. So this produce problems in image. I see drop in your peak White also if you compare the pre-post peak white you will see if you take measurements but the strange thing is that your 100% White before running the AutoCal was already calibrated.



About the 15% of Gray Pink tint you see by viewing a Grayscale Ramp, but the 15% Grayscale measurement don't see that, here I added manually the percentages to show you that the problem is visible here.



Here is the 3D LUT Preview of your correction:



Seems to me that you have already calibrated your 100% Saturation manually before running the CalMAN AutoCAL.

I'm not seeing that the correction LUT is changing so much your data, that's why you don't see big difference with LUT active/inactive. You just see some problems in colors that are visible to your 1D LUT viewer also.
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Old 09-03-2015, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by JimP View Post
Ted,
Just ran a 2500 patch set and the average dE2000 was .7
The two readings that were 6.13 and 5.26 dE were so dark that on the color checker it was very difficult to impossible to see the difference. I could probably clear that up by increasing the K10A's read time but I doubt the gain would be worth slowing down the 10,000 point LUTs process.

With that said, the 21 pt grayscale, 15% was a touch pink. I've come across this before and was able to clear it up by adjusting that level in the 1D up/down back to default. Don't know if Calman is posting a correction to 15% 1d that it shouldn't or if something is wonky on the eecolor. Perhaps the file I sent you will shed some light on this.
Hi Jim, can you post the target + measured xyY of these 2 colorpoints you found with 6.13 and 5.26 dE?

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Old 09-03-2015, 11:15 AM
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Hi Jim, can you post the target + measured xyY of these 2 colorpoints you found with 6.13 and 5.26 dE?
I'd have to go back and rerun it.

As best as my memory recalls, they were both 16,16, X. Sorry, that's probably not much help.
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Old 09-03-2015, 11:37 AM
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I'd have to go back and rerun it.

As best as my memory recalls, they were both 16,16, X. Sorry, that's probably not much help.
If you have saved these measurements, send them to me to take a look.

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Old 09-03-2015, 12:56 PM
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If you have saved these measurements, send them to me to take a look.
Sorry, didn't save them.

You noticed on the new Calman beta, there's something about a change for the just above black levels. Wonder if that's connected to this.
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Old 09-03-2015, 01:03 PM
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Sorry, didn't save them.

You noticed on the new Calman beta, there's something about a change for the just above black levels. Wonder if that's connected to this.

Take pre-post calibration report if you try it, and upload the new eeColor TXT to examine it.

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Old 09-05-2015, 05:55 AM
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I'm not seeing that the correction LUT is changing so much your data, that's why you don't see big difference with LUT active/inactive. You just see some problems in colors that are visible to your 1D LUT viewer also.
This raises the question "should I even be bothering with a 3D LUTs?"
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Old 09-05-2015, 11:36 AM
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This raises the question "should I even be bothering with a 3D LUTs?"
What's your pre-calibration report when you measure for example 2.500 color points?

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Old 09-05-2015, 11:57 AM
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What's your pre-calibration report when you measure for example 2.500 color points?
I only ran a post calibration verification but I get your point.
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Old 09-05-2015, 11:59 AM
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I only ran a post calibration verification but I get your point.

When you pre-calibrate your gamut before running the AutoCAL, you are not leaving to the software 'space to work'. I'm suggesting you to use the native gamut next time you will run your AutoCAL. Just calibrate the 100% White only.

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Old 09-20-2015, 07:37 AM
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Hi Ted,

Since the earlier post, Calman has released a new beta which using my workflow provides me with a dE2000 of .5 using a 250 point verification patch set. I ran the verification patch set up to 500 with no difference. Reviewing the color checker, I saw no visible differences between readings and targets. This is on my Samsung F8500 plasma.

Last edited by JimP; 09-20-2015 at 07:40 AM.
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Old 09-20-2015, 07:58 AM
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Hi Ted,

Since the earlier post, Calman has released a new beta which using my workflow provides me with a dE2000 of .5 using a 250 point verification patch set. I ran the verification patch set up to 500 with no difference. Reviewing the color checker, I saw no visible differences between readings and targets. This is on my Samsung F8500 plasma.
Hi Jim, very good.

How the Grayscale Steps/Ramp look? Have you noticed any issue by looking the Color Reproduction Patterns?

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Old 09-20-2015, 09:53 AM
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Hi Jim, very good.

How the Grayscale Steps/Ramp look? Have you noticed any issue by looking the Color Reproduction Patterns?
Grayscale looks good. A definite improvement over earlier releases.

I'll check out the Color reproduction Patterns later today when I get a chance.

Thanks for all your help.
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Old 09-20-2015, 12:58 PM
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Grayscale looks good. A definite improvement over earlier releases.

I'll check out the Color reproduction Patterns later today when I get a chance.

Thanks for all your help.
How does a 21 step grayscale/gamma/color temp report look?
Example below is my last 3DLUT loaded into my eecolor for my 65EG9600 RIP.

Calman was only used for the calibration report, not the profile or 3DLUT.
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Old 09-20-2015, 02:45 PM
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How does a 21 step grayscale/gamma/color temp report look?
Example below is my last 3DLUT loaded into my eecolor for my 65EG9600 RIP.

Calman was only used for the calibration report, not the profile or 3DLUT.

Hey SS, why 65EG9600 RIP?

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Old 09-20-2015, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
How does a 21 step grayscale/gamma/color temp report look?
Example below is my last 3DLUT loaded into my eecolor for my 65EG9600 RIP.

Calman was only used for the calibration report, not the profile or 3DLUT.
Its been a few days but the best I recall is that it averaged on grayscale either .6 or .7 but more importantly is that visually I couldn't see any differences in squares that display target from actual.

Isn't OLED inherently more stable than plasma resulting in lower dE?
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Old 09-20-2015, 04:13 PM
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Hey SS, why 65EG9600 RIP?
LG refunded the full amount I paid for the 65EG9600 because of the side flames. I am getting a 65EF9500 that is said to not have the side flames issue and also has full HDMI 2.0a UHD support, for $2000 less.

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Its been a few days but the best I recall is that it averaged on grayscale either .6 or .7 but more importantly is that visually I couldn't see any differences in squares that display target from actual.

Isn't OLED inherently more stable than plasma resulting in lower dE?
Yes I would say the EG9600 is more stable than my 65VT60 plasma. The only problem is the calibration controls don't work very well. So the only way to get a very good grayscale and CMS is by doing a large profile/3DLUT.
If you just use the internal controls of the EG9600 (OLED) for a manual calibration, you can only use the standard gamut and the CMS controls are next to useless. So sometimes colors look off.
Most folks probably wouldn't think much of this because the clarity, depth and contrast is like nothing I have ever seen, its amazing.

ss
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Old 09-23-2015, 12:10 PM
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Grayscale looks good. A definite improvement over earlier releases.

I'll check out the Color reproduction Patterns later today when I get a chance.

Thanks for all your help.
Hey Jim, have you tested the latest CalMAN Beta with your eeColor?
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Old 09-23-2015, 03:14 PM
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Hey Jim, have you tested the latest CalMAN Beta with your eeColor?
Not yet.

It'll be interesting to see how drift compensation works.
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Old 09-24-2015, 03:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Old 09-24-2015, 03:15 PM
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Thanks Buzz,

That is an AMAZING Deal..guess it is time for a backup unit.

Later
RayJr
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Old 09-24-2015, 04:17 PM
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Is there a document that shows exactly what is necessary to make a 3D LUT for EE box? I have the colorimeter and Calman. I would like to have my Blu-ray use one LUT and my PC use another LUT.

Norm
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Old 09-24-2015, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptHowdy000 View Post
Is there a document that shows exactly what is necessary to make a 3D LUT for EE box? I have the colorimeter and Calman. I would like to have my Blu-ray use one LUT and my PC use another LUT.

Norm
Hi, 3D LUT AutoCAL requires less pre-calibration preparation. You need to find the largest gamut (native) of your display and calibrate only 100% White. It's not required to perform multi-Point Grayscale or CMS calibration using each display available internal calibration controls. All other areas of the display will be corrected via 3D LUT Calibration/Profiling later.

You will have the available options @ CalMAN when you will press the AutoCAL button, about the colorpoints you want to calibrate, or the max time you want this session to take.

You can found a lot of info @ SpectraCAL's site:

Creating CalMAN 3D LUTs: Overview Guide [Download PDF]
Learn how to use Intelligent Resolution Profiling, Lightning LUT, and 3D LUT Retargeting.

http://calman.spectracal.com/webinars.html

http://calman.spectracal.com/white-papers.html

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
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