eeColor Processor - CalMAN - 3D LUTs - Page 32 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #931 of 958 Old 06-05-2016, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
@bcj

You may have over done your pre GS settings.
Try and avoid using Green for Low RGB white balance.

Wanted to try out JimP sugestion about using the sub controls in CM for the K10-A setup.
Ran a 9261 point profile and a 21 point GS, using autocal. Both GS and 3DLUT were uploaded to the beta Lumagen Pro 4444.

I have used CM 3DLUT with a Lumagen mini from when CM first came out with 3DLUT. For the last few years I have been using the eecolor and ArgyllCMS or Lightspace.

Anyway from what I seen this new CM does a very nice job for 3DLUT's.
The Charts may not be as preety as I can make them, but what I have seen is very good.

ss
Good to hear that it worked well for you.

Did you notice how the image stayed sharp?

Spectracal has sure done a nice job with Calman's 3D LUTs program.
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post #932 of 958 Old 06-06-2016, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
For the Low 2pt control, the only adjustment made was -1 for Green.
5% IRE control was never touched (all values at 0), and 10% and 15% both have Green @ -4
Yes the low range from 0 to 25 IRE is hard to get right.
Here are my settings I used in the last Chart I posted using CM.
In the service menu I opened up White balance, Warm.
High RGB. HR 189, HG 174, HB 124
Low RGB LR 68, LG 68, LB 68.
Warm 2, Wide Gamut, Gamma 2.2 or 2.4, Contrast 77, OLED light 42, Brightness 49.
The only setting I changed in the Gray scale settings is Blue high -5.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post
Good to hear that it worked well for you.

Did you notice how the image stayed sharp?

Spectracal has sure done a nice job with Calman's 3D LUTs program.
Yes the PQ stayed sharp, the only issue I can see is some excess ringing. However that is a fairly rare happening.

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post #933 of 958 Old 06-06-2016, 05:54 PM
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Odd question but is it possible to rename the on screen info that pops up when selecting a 3D lut profile on the eeColor? So if I select slot #1 instead of saying "Standard skin tone blah blah" I could have it save "Custom Lut" or something?
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post #934 of 958 Old 06-06-2016, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
I had a separate thread regarding an eeColor 3D Lut box and CalMAN to be used with my LG EF9500. After a lot of input from various users, I think I am on the right track and have a very good 21^3 profile for my eeColor, but was hoping for a little more input and help in here for the final tuning (hopefully without having to rerun the profile).

1) Below are my before and after readings of the 3D Lut profile I created. For the before profile I calibrated the 2pt Low/High on the LG for 5% and 100% tracking, then did a quick run through of the 20pt grayscale controls (I already had a calibrated grayscale for my Sammy UHD player since it will not be a part of the eeColor chain so I just copied the settings and verified with a few reads). As you can see, the 3D Lut profile created did wonders for the colors...but knocked the grayscale out of tracking a little. My goal was a Power Curve of 2.25 with a Black Level Target of 0.005 to ramp out of black (per Chad B's custom workflow recommendation). Am I allowed/can I make a few small adjustments to the LG's 20pt controls to bring the grayscale back in line or at least soften the peaks and dips? Nothing major, just a few ticks here and there? If I have been learning correctly, as long as I don't touch the 100% IRE (100 White) controls, the colorspace corrections shouldn't be affected noticeably, right?





2) Below are before and after pictures of a Grayscale Ramp pattern. With the 3D Lut disabled, the Grayscale Ramp has no major/noticeable banding. But with it enabled there is noticeable banding. What would cause this and can I fix it or lessen the effects?





Thanks guys!


I would leave the 21pt grayscale controls alone and set to their default values before making the LUT. I would just adjust the RGB gains and that is it.
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post #935 of 958 Old 06-06-2016, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
Odd question but is it possible to rename the on screen info that pops up when selecting a 3D lut profile on the eeColor? So if I select slot #1 instead of saying "Standard skin tone blah blah" I could have it save "Custom Lut" or something?
Yes, see this link.
ee/ColorBox, LightSpace, and 3D LUT Calibration

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post #936 of 958 Old 06-06-2016, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
Perfect! Thanks.

Also, when I go to redo a profile, should I just turn turn the eeC off using the remote or reset the entire eeColor using DDC reset in CalMAN (assuming I do not mind losing all six slots of data) so the picture is uncalibrated during measurements?
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post #937 of 958 Old 06-06-2016, 09:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
Perfect! Thanks.

Also, when I go to redo a profile, should I just turn turn the eeC off using the remote or reset the entire eeColor using DDC reset in CalMAN (assuming I do not mind losing all six slots of data) so the picture is uncalibrated during measurements?
There are three places where Calman takes reading in the LUTs workflow...precalibration, during the actual reads for the LUTs and postcalibration. In the reads for the LUTs, the program first resets the values in the memory you've selected to unity. So in effect, its doing a reset internally for that memory. As you said, you can reset all memories using the DDC reset feature. If you're using that precalibration report, it would reflect the LUTs in that memory unless you do use the full DDC reset.

What I find useful since we have 6 memories on the eecolor is to keep my LUTs from previous sessions to visually compare to the current LUTs session. Sometimes, you may want to experiment and see if the difference we see in reports actually show up visually. For example, how does changing the pattern from an 18% constant APL to 25% constant APL affect the picture on a plasma.
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post #938 of 958 Old 06-06-2016, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
Perfect! Thanks.

Also, when I go to redo a profile, should I just turn turn the eeC off using the remote or reset the entire eeColor using DDC reset in CalMAN (assuming I do not mind losing all six slots of data) so the picture is uncalibrated during measurements?
Leave eecolor on, select a slot (1-6) that's got a 'null' cube.
You just want to make sure the active memory slot has a 'null' cube. Or turn the eecolor memory off so no 3DLUT is active. That button is on the eecolor remote, when off the eecolor screen will display a 0 to tell you no 3DLUT's are active. 0 is the same as a 'null' 3DLUT.

However I think Calman will do a auto reset of the active memory slot you have chosen, but I would like CM to confirm.

Keep up the good work.

ss

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post #939 of 958 Old 06-06-2016, 09:57 PM
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Once you connect the eecolor to Calman through the DDC pane, you can't change memory number on the box and I'm pretty sure you can't turn the LUT off via the remote as that appears to just be changing the memory to memory slot 0.

Another way to say that is to be sure to select your memory number on the box before doing the DDC connect process. Then change the 3D LUT memory in the DDC pane to match what you've selected on the eecolor box.
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post #940 of 958 Old 06-06-2016, 10:05 PM
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If anyone is concerned about making sure there is unity lut in a slot that CM will begin performing reads through then just use the eeColor TruVue app to upload unity luts (to all or just a select few) prior to running CM cube workflow.

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post #941 of 958 Old 06-12-2016, 03:58 PM
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A question for the Spectracal Team.

If one was to buy an eecolor box new, is there any reason to run the eecolor app to set it up or does the total reset within the DDC window do everything you need it to do. I can see that the window that pops up on the display would not indicate null but if that doesn't matter, then is there any reason like formatting memory, etc. ?
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post #942 of 958 Old 06-12-2016, 08:00 PM
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CalMAN will reset everything we need.

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I am interested to purchase an eeColor 3D LUT Box to use with CalMAN. Having read though this entire thread and some others I am still unsure if I can use the eeColor with a 0-255 RGB monitor (specifically a Samsung 275t) as opposed to a TV.


Any clarification would be appreciated. Thanks!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lavcat View Post
I am interested to purchase an eeColor 3D LUT Box to use with CalMAN. Having read though this entire thread and some others I am still unsure if I can use the eeColor with a 0-255 RGB monitor (specifically a Samsung 275t) as opposed to a TV.


Any clarification would be appreciated. Thanks!
Hi, which will be your source for the 275T?

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Hi, which will be your source for the 275T?


Thank you. There are three sources:


Oppo 103
Windows 10 computer with AMD R9 Nano
Windows 7 computer with AMD 6970




With the monitor uncalibrated I measure an average dE of 3.6 and a max dE of 9.8 (blue) using CalMAN Studio. My instrument is a i1Display Pro. The other software I have installed is i1Profiler and HCFR.


Ideally I'd like to be able to switch between LUTs for REC 709 and Adobe 1998.


Early in this thread there was some mention by SpectraCal representatives that the memory architecture of the eeColor was not suitable for use with 0-255 displays, but the manual for the eeColor I have seen on the web says that it is. Hence my concern.
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No the eeColor is not a good choice for that setup.

The 3D LUT in the device is spaced like a 65 point LUT, but it is missing all control at 100% signals, so the device has no control over 255,0,0 0,255,0 0,0,255 ect...

Keep you're eyes open, SpectraCal may have more appropriate solutions soon.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post
No the eeColor is not a good choice for that setup.

The 3D LUT in the device is spaced like a 65 point LUT, but it is missing all control at 100% signals, so the device has no control over 255,0,0 0,255,0 0,0,255 ect...

Keep you're eyes open, SpectraCal may have more appropriate solutions soon.


Hardware solutions?
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post #948 of 958 Unread Yesterday, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lavcat View Post
Thank you. There are three sources:

Oppo 103
Windows 10 computer with AMD R9 Nano
Windows 7 computer with AMD 6970

With the monitor uncalibrated I measure an average dE of 3.6 and a max dE of 9.8 (blue) using CalMAN Studio. My instrument is a i1Display Pro. The other software I have installed is i1Profiler and HCFR.

Ideally I'd like to be able to switch between LUTs for REC 709 and Adobe 1998.

Early in this thread there was some mention by SpectraCal representatives that the memory architecture of the eeColor was not suitable for use with 0-255 displays, but the manual for the eeColor I have seen on the web says that it is. Hence my concern.
Hi, eeColor 3D LUT Box designed for HT market, so for Video Levels it will work great.

There is a limitation of eeColor when you will use it for PC Levels (Data) calibration.

As you know eeColor has 65-Point Cube 3D LUT table, while it's 65-point, the 65point is not calibrated, this means that if you calibrate a 0-255 signal, it will store the correction up to 0-253 levels. The 255 level (65th point) is passthrou. Even if the calibration software generates the correction for the 65th point, the correction of 65point will be loaded to eeColor but it will not been used. It's hardware limitation. This is not affecting any calibration when you calibrate for Video Levels (16-235).

In case that you will use Video Levels, there is no problem.

In case you will use Data Levels, it will be able to fix up to 98.5% of the colors, not the 100% (since 255 = 100%)

The solution to this is to pre-calibrate with internal display controls the 100% Saturation/100% Luminance of Red/Green/Blue (ideally the Cyan/Magenta/Yellow) + 100% White from Display internal calibration controls (not sure if it has these controls), and let later eeColor/CalMAN calibrate the other points.

Generally any future hardware release can't beat the eeColor's capabilities for it's money.

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..
Keep you're eyes open, SpectraCal may have more appropriate solutions soon.
That are 4k compatible... right?... right?? And maybe even 3D compatible, though that is less of a priority. And don't cost what the Lumagens do, of course.
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That are 4k compatible... right?... right?? And maybe even 3D compatible, though that is less of a priority. And don't cost what the Lumagens do, of course.
I was talking in reference to the users PC display.

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If I could properly adjust my monitor white point would the objection to the eeColor be removed? The dE is 1.3 at the moment.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi, eeColor 3D LUT Box designed for HT market, so for Video Levels it will work great.

There is a limitation of eeColor when you will use it for PC Levels (Data) calibration.

As you know eeColor has 65-Point Cube 3D LUT table, while it's 65-point, the 65point is not calibrated, this means that if you calibrate a 0-255 signal, it will store the correction up to 0-253 levels. The 255 level (65th point) is passthrou.
Thanks. But just to be sure, level 254 is also passthrough, right? For curiosity I tried it on my data monitor which is reaaaally bad. But with software-calibration (DisplayCal) I got ruler flat 2.2 gamma. With eecolor I probably got more accurate colors, but gamma wasn't very linear. Generally data monitors come with RGB controls, but usually not a 2pt. So usually you manually calibrate 100% first.

Last edited by Bloodwound; Today at 01:13 AM.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lavcat View Post
If I could properly adjust my monitor white point would the objection to the eeColor be removed? The dE is 1.3 at the moment.
Measuring only your white point don't tell so much about your display performance.

If you measure ColorChecker SG or 5-Point Saturation / 5-Point Luminance and 21-Point Grayscale you will have better idea how the display performs.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodwound View Post
Thanks. But just to be sure, level 254 is also passthrough, right? For curiosity I tried it on my data monitor which is reaaaally bad. But with software-calibration (DisplayCal) I got ruler flat 2.2 gamma. With eecolor I probably got more accurate colors, but gamma wasn't very linear. Generally data monitors come with RGB controls, but usually not a 2pt. So usually you manually calibrate 100% first.
Hi, about 254, yes, it's passthrou.

About your gamma, it's something you have to check with your calibration software.

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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Measuring only your white point don't tell so much about your display performance.

If you measure ColorChecker SG or 5-Point Saturation / 5-Point Luminance and 21-Point Grayscale you will have better idea how the display performs.


I mentioned only the 1.3 dE white point because the white point could not be corrected by eeColor.


A 51 point gray scale I measured in HCFR gave an average gamma of 2.19 and an average dE of 0.90. Max dE was 1.89.
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A question for SpectraCal: in CalMAN Studio/Create Virtual 3D LUT/Cube 3D LUT Settings/Video Range the only choices are 16-255 and 16-235. I would have expected to see a choice for 0-255. Are the Video Range choices the same in CalMAN Enthusiast if I were using an eeColor?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lavcat View Post
A question for SpectraCal: in CalMAN Studio/Create Virtual 3D LUT/Cube 3D LUT Settings/Video Range the only choices are 16-255 and 16-235. I would have expected to see a choice for 0-255. Are the Video Range choices the same in CalMAN Enthusiast if I were using an eeColor?
You need to flip the range for CalMAN into 0-255 PC levels. it's in the right hand panel.

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Originally Posted by sotti View Post
You need to flip the range for CalMAN into 0-255 PC levels. it's in the right hand panel.


Found it, thanks!
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