eeColor Processor - CalMAN - 3D LUTs - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 551 Old 03-29-2013, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Mike View Post


regarding the bit-depth of processing and output, here's direct info from eeColor:

> 3D LUT algorithm only supports maximum of 10 bits input so the data will be reduced from 12 bits to 10 bits if needed.

> max bit-depth of internal processing: 10 Bits for the 3D LUT.

> max resolution: 1080P is the offical max supported resolution.

> 12 bits HDMI in will be 12 bits HDMI out but will be rescaled to 10 bits for 3D color table processing.


- M

Thanks Mike.
I didn't know that either, and that will cause me to rethink a setting or two.

ss
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post #182 of 551 Old 03-29-2013, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Thanks Mike.
I didn't know that either, and that will cause me to rethink a setting or two.

ss

I think this is only important for displays that accept 10-bit or higher and the source is 10-bit or higher, e.g. for a color grading workflow...

if the source is 8-bit 4:2:0 (--> Blu-ray) then processing of the 3D LUT is in 10-bit (so smoother gradations for the corrections) but the box might still output 8-bit, since it was an 8-bit source... not sure, I haven't tested, somebody with a QD 780 could test this...

even if the box outputs 10-bit (upsampled) for a 8-bit source, most commercial TV displays (that can only accept 8-bit or less) would clip the extra bits anyways...

- M

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post #183 of 551 Old 03-30-2013, 03:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Mike View Post

I think this is only important for displays that accept 10-bit or higher and the source is 10-bit or higher, e.g. for a color grading workflow...

if the source is 8-bit 4:2:0 (--> Blu-ray) then processing of the 3D LUT is in 10-bit (so smoother gradations for the corrections) but the box might still output 8-bit, since it was an 8-bit source... not sure, I haven't tested, somebody with a QD 780 could test this...

even if the box outputs 10-bit (upsampled) for a 8-bit source, most commercial TV displays (that can only accept 8-bit or less) would clip the extra bits anyways...

- M

Yes, I use 4:2:2/source direct for Blu Ray for my source output, I also set my Mini 3D to output 4:2:2 when generating triplets.. So maybe the box may like 4:4:4 better.
I am probably grasping at straws here, but what the heck its always worth a try.

ss
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post #184 of 551 Old 03-30-2013, 09:05 AM
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please correct me if I'm wrong. The Radiance uses 12bit by default when set to 4:2:2. If eeColor accepts 10bit for input and processing is 10bit too, I would set the Radiance output fixed to 4:2:2 10bit (or maybe 4:4:4 10bit when results are better) to avoid unnecessary conversions/rescalings.
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post #185 of 551 Old 03-30-2013, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by DrFaxe View Post

please correct me if I'm wrong. The Radiance uses 12bit by default when set to 4:2:2. If eeColor accepts 10bit for input and processing is 10bit too, I would set the Radiance output fixed to 4:2:2 10bit (or maybe 4:4:4 10bit when results are better) to avoid unnecessary conversions/rescalings.


This was exactly what I was after when I asked the question if the eeColor supports 10/12 bit deep color. This is completely different than 12-bit 4:2:2 (which has been a standard since HDMI 1.1). The Radiance cannot output 10-bit 4:4:4, which is considered a "Deep Color"' mode. It can only output 8-bit 4:4:4. When you set the Radiance to output 4:4:4, the dithering settings are meaningless and are not used at all (unless you dither all the way down to 6 or 7-bits).

I have come to the conclusion that 4:4:4 is the better output mode (even though it's only 8-bit). I believe that the 8-bit per-pixel chrominance accuracy on 4:4:4 is better than the extended 12-bit color depth on 4:2:2 (because 4:2:2 loses chrominance resolution due to shared chrominance for 2 consequtive pixels).

The exception here is if your projector converts everything to 4:2:2 anyways for its internal processing pipeline (which I have heard the JVCs may do). If this is the case, then it's better to output 4:2:2 so that you can take advantage of the 12-bit color depth. For my Sony VW95ES, it's better to send it 4:4:4 because there is motion blur that occurs with 4:2:2 (due to fluctuating chominance values for an object that moves across the screen). This is fixed if you use 4:4:4.

As far as sending Deep Color to the eeColor, there's no point in doing this if you have a Radiance in the mix, since Radiance does not support Deep Color anyways. You could try running your bluray (set to 10-bit deep color) directly to the eeColor, but your going on the assumption that the deinterlacer/scaler in the bluray player is going to be as good as or better than the Radiance at processing the 4:2:0 that's on the disc. This depends entirely on what bluray player you have (and what video processing chip it contains).
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post #186 of 551 Old 03-30-2013, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Inami View Post

When you set the Radiance to output 4:4:4, the dithering settings are meaningless and are not used at all (unless you dither to 6-bits).

didn't know that. Weird that the Radiance offers this in the menu without having an effect. Thanks a lot for all explanations!
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post #187 of 551 Old 03-30-2013, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Yes, I use 4:2:2/source direct for Blu Ray for my source output, I also set my Mini 3D to output 4:2:2 when generating triplets.. So maybe the box may like 4:4:4 better.
I am probably grasping at straws here, but what the heck its always worth a try.

ss

another question is if the Mini - when used as pattern generator - actually uses the settings of the CMS slot u have set up and was last used... it could be it is in a default, neutral state when being used as a pattern generator and NONE of these settings apply - that is likely when R(eference) patterns are used, u'll see a little "R" in the upper right corner...

if there's an "A", it is in adjustable pattern mode and the the LUT sitting in the CMS slot will have affect, not sure again if the settings will have an effect on the test patterns in this mode...

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post #188 of 551 Old 03-31-2013, 01:18 PM
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Guys, since Calman supports the eeBox now, all I need to buy is Calman5E, i1Display pro, and eeBox. Is that correct ? Do I need any other hardware/ software ?
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post #189 of 551 Old 03-31-2013, 03:38 PM
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Guys, since Calman supports the eeBox now, all I need to buy is Calman5E, i1Display pro, and eeBox. Is that correct ? Do I need any other hardware/ software ?

A Pattern Generator that can display any RGB Triplet combination.

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post #190 of 551 Old 03-31-2013, 03:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

A Pattern Generator that can display any RGB Triplet combination.

And that would include Calman internal patterns.

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post #191 of 551 Old 03-31-2013, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

And that would include Calman internal patterns.
And in the 5.1.1 release the internal pattern gen also has multiple window sizes and APL levels.

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post #192 of 551 Old 03-31-2013, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

A Pattern Generator that can display any RGB Triplet combination.

I don't understand this. With LightSpace CMS I don't need a pattern generator but with Calman5E I do ? I cannot connect directly with laptop's HDMI output or use Ted's calibration disk ? What do I need to spend on a pattern generator ?
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post #193 of 551 Old 03-31-2013, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger View Post

I don't understand this. With LightSpace CMS I don't need a pattern generator but with Calman5E I do ? I cannot connect directly with laptop's HDMI output or use Ted's calibration disk ? What do I need to spend on a pattern generator ?

Did you miss posts 190 and 191?
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post #194 of 551 Old 03-31-2013, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

A Pattern Generator that can display any RGB Triplet combination.

I don't understand this. With LightSpace CMS I don't need a pattern generator but with Calman5E I do ? I cannot connect directly with laptop's HDMI output or use Ted's calibration disk ? What do I need to spend on a pattern generator ?

Ted's LightSpace Calibration Disk can only be used as a Source for LightSpace Users only, for Automated 3D Cubes with a single initial mouse click, not other user prompt.

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Did you miss posts 190 and 191?

No, I read them but don't understand as I am new to this. This pattern generator, is it a hardware or software solution I need to buy ?
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post #196 of 551 Old 03-31-2013, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger View Post

No, I read them but don't understand as I am new to this. This pattern generator, is it a hardware or software solution I need to buy ?

CalMAN and LightSpace include a software pattern generator. But you can also use external pattern generators.

Sources: Panasonic BDT-110, Toshiba HD-XE-1, Vantage VT-1S
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post #197 of 551 Old 03-31-2013, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Nudgiator View Post

CalMAN and LightSpace include a software pattern generator. But you can also use external pattern generators.

Thanks ! That was my original question. So with a eeBox, Calman Enthusiast, and D3 I can start calibrating immediately and don't need to buy anything else.
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post #198 of 551 Old 03-31-2013, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nudgiator View Post

CalMAN and LightSpace include a software pattern generator. But you can also use external pattern generators.

Thanks ! That was my original question. So with a eeBox, Calman Enthusiast, and D3 I can start calibrating immediately and don't need to buy anything else.

Need a tripod also to mount the meter. Good Luck

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post #199 of 551 Old 03-31-2013, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Mike View Post

another question is if the Mini - when used as pattern generator - actually uses the settings of the CMS slot u have set up and was last used... it could be it is in a default, neutral state when being used as a pattern generator and NONE of these settings apply - that is likely when R(eference) patterns are used, u'll see a little "R" in the upper right corner...

if there's an "A", it is in adjustable pattern mode and the the LUT sitting in the CMS slot will have affect, not sure again if the settings will have an effect on the test patterns in this mode...

Good to know.

Because you can back up all your settings/calibrations that are in the Mini, I just simply reset to factory default and set what I want for output.

I try to eliminate any settings I am not sure about.

ss
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post #200 of 551 Old 03-31-2013, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by sotti View Post

And in the 5.1.1 release the internal pattern gen also has multiple window sizes and APL levels.

Joel-
any chance 5% patterns can get added in the future?
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post #201 of 551 Old 03-31-2013, 06:09 PM
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Need a tripod also to mount the meter. Good Luck

This one ... tongue.gif


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post #202 of 551 Old 03-31-2013, 07:06 PM
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This one ... tongue.gif


more horizontal (from display) flexibility



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post #203 of 551 Old 03-31-2013, 07:16 PM
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You were my inspiration, Turbe. I have only "optimized" It smile.gif

Oh, my final result "optimization" is:

1. About 48cm forth
2. About 24cm left / right
3. About 24cm upper / lower

That's the 24cm forth version:


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post #204 of 551 Old 03-31-2013, 07:40 PM
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hmm, that view looks interesting.. can I see a top view?

it looks like the i1D3 is on the right (from top view) but perhaps may be in the path of the rear, also what are the adjustment ranges?

I do want to say, that pic look so cool..

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post #205 of 551 Old 03-31-2013, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1forsnow View Post

Joel-
any chance 5% patterns can get added in the future?

Possibly.

The patterns are totally dynamic, so it's just a matter of figuring out how big a list we want to include.

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post #206 of 551 Old 04-01-2013, 04:16 AM
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Quote:
but perhaps may be in the path of the rear

Yes, the i1D3 is behind the i1 pro 2 (you can see it on the first pic I posted)
Quote:
also what are the adjustment ranges?

The complete construction can be positioned forward for about 24 cm. From this position, both probes can be additionally and independently positioned forward for 24 cm - in sum: 48cm.
Sidewards: 24 cm left and 24 cm right. But, of course, the probe will stay at its place. That's for exact profiling the i1D3 against the i1 pro 2.
Height: I have used a 10 cm macro camera rail. But it's also possible to use a 24 cm macro camera rail.

Oh, complete costs: about 100€ (+ screws etc.). It's especially build for non-contact mode.

Sources: Panasonic BDT-110, Toshiba HD-XE-1, Vantage VT-1S
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post #207 of 551 Old 04-01-2013, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

And in the 5.1.1 release the internal pattern gen also has multiple window sizes and APL levels.

I have just used the Cal PC Client 2.2.1.18 to have a look at the APL levels. But I can only see: 2, 5, 10, 18, 25, 50 and Full 100%. Where can I find the APL levels ?

Oh, another question: how can I deactivate the autostart of the Cal PC Client when starting Windows 7 ?

Sources: Panasonic BDT-110, Toshiba HD-XE-1, Vantage VT-1S
Video processing: Lumagen Radiance 2041
Calibration: Full LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5 Business Pro, Chroma Pure
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post #208 of 551 Old 04-01-2013, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nudgiator View Post

I have just used the Cal PC Client 2.2.1.18 to have a look at the APL levels. But I can only see: 2, 5, 10, 18, 25, 50 and Full 100%. Where can I find the APL levels ?
It's not in the client (yet), right now you use the actual built in pattern window. When you're connected to the default manual source, there is a button to open the floating pattern window. When that window is full screen it does all the APL, window sizes.
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Oh, another question: how can I deactivate the autostart of the Cal PC Client when starting Windows 7 ?

It's a registry entry.

Probably easiest to run "msconfig" from the start menu to edit the entry.

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post #209 of 551 Old 04-01-2013, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

It's not in the client (yet)

Is there a time-line for it ?
Quote:
right now you use the actual built in pattern window. When you're connected to the default manual source, there is a button to open the floating pattern window. When that window is full screen it does all the APL, window sizes.

Got it !
Quote:
It's a registry entry.

Probably easiest to run "msconfig" from the start menu to edit the entry.

Got it !

Thx !

Sources: Panasonic BDT-110, Toshiba HD-XE-1, Vantage VT-1S
Video processing: Lumagen Radiance 2041
Calibration: Full LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5 Business Pro, Chroma Pure
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post #210 of 551 Old 04-01-2013, 03:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Ctrl Alt Delete - Task Mgr - Processes - disable it there. It'll come back when the PC is restarted.

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