BenQ W1070 clipping black, White and Color levels? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 20 Old 03-14-2013, 06:08 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Tyrone Burton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: UK,Cheshire
Posts: 466
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Hi all.

I recently bought myself a BenQ W1070 DLP projector and have had it for about 5 days now. It seems that this projector model clips BTB, WTW and the three R G and B levels when in video mode.

However it doesn't do this at all with 0-255 PC level content, everything is perfect. It's the first time ive seen a projector that doesn't do well with 16-235 video stuff. I am not using an AVR, and my PS3 is my bluray player.

Has anyone else with this particular projector had the same results? I found all this out using the Spears & Munsill disc.

Tyrone Burton is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 20 Old 03-14-2013, 08:57 PM
AVS Special Member
 
airscapes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 4,617
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Liked: 111
Make sure you PS3 is set up like this and see what it does.. audio not important but the last 2 are.
BD/DVD Upscaler: "Normal"
BD/DVD Video Output Format (HDMI): "Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr" for TVs, "RGB" for PC Monitors
BD 1080p 24Hz Output: "Automatic"
BD/DVD Dynamic Range Control: "Off"
BD/DVD Audio Output Format (HDMI): "Linear PCM"
BD/DVD Audio Output Format (Optical Digital): "Bitstream"

Display Settings

RGB Full Range (HDMI): "Limited"
Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr Super-White (HDMI): "On"
airscapes is offline  
post #3 of 20 Old 03-14-2013, 09:39 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Tyrone Burton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: UK,Cheshire
Posts: 466
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by airscapes View Post

Make sure you PS3 is set up like this and see what it does.. audio not important but the last 2 are.
BD/DVD Upscaler: "Normal"
BD/DVD Video Output Format (HDMI): "Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr" for TVs, "RGB" for PC Monitors
BD 1080p 24Hz Output: "Automatic"
BD/DVD Dynamic Range Control: "Off"
BD/DVD Audio Output Format (HDMI): "Linear PCM"
BD/DVD Audio Output Format (Optical Digital): "Bitstream"

Display Settings

RGB Full Range (HDMI): "Limited"
Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr Super-White (HDMI): "On"
Thanks for that, but my PS3 settings have always been like that.

Tyrone Burton is offline  
post #4 of 20 Old 03-18-2013, 10:34 AM
Senior Member
 
sigma957's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Littleton, CO
Posts: 471
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
When I calibrate my W1070, I find the following:

- When I use the PS3 (YCbCr video), BTB and WTW both appear to be clipped.
- When I use my HTPC (set to RGB Full), I see BTB but not WTW.
- I also find that when adjusting the colors, you can only turn up the saturation a few notches before it doesn't have any effect. (I'm using an i1 Display Pro meter.) I think this indicates that the colors are getting clipped beyond a certain point.

BenQ W1070 | Denon AVR-3313CI | Samsung PN51E7000 Plasma | HTPC
sigma957 is offline  
post #5 of 20 Old 03-18-2013, 02:00 PM
Advanced Member
 
Smackrabbit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Portland, OR, USA
Posts: 893
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Under the options in the BenQ, you can go to HDMI settings, and set the HDMI input from Auto to PC, and that will stop clipping those levels. BenQ and others like JVC do this for whatever reason.

Chris Heinonen
Senior Editor, Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity, www.hometheaterhifi.com
Displays Editor, AnandTech.com
Contributor, HDGuru.com and Wirecutter.com
ISF Level II Certified Calibrator, ReferenceHomeTheater.com
Smackrabbit is offline  
post #6 of 20 Old 03-18-2013, 03:52 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Tyrone Burton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: UK,Cheshire
Posts: 466
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smackrabbit View Post

Under the options in the BenQ, you can go to HDMI settings, and set the HDMI input from Auto to PC, and that will stop clipping those levels. BenQ and others like JVC do this for whatever reason.
But that setting I'm sure is for 0-255 content. Should I output the movies in 0-255?, even though there 16-235.

Tyrone Burton is offline  
post #7 of 20 Old 03-18-2013, 05:19 PM
AVS Special Member
 
sotti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 6,609
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Burton View Post

But that setting I'm sure is for 0-255 content. Should I output the movies in 0-255?, even though there 16-235.

Once you can see everything, you should be able to use brightness and contrast to correctly align for video content.

Joel Barsotti
SpectraCal
CalMAN Lead Developer
sotti is offline  
post #8 of 20 Old 03-19-2013, 12:16 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Tyrone Burton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: UK,Cheshire
Posts: 466
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Even if I'm outputting 0-255?

Tyrone Burton is offline  
post #9 of 20 Old 03-19-2013, 12:20 AM
AVS Special Member
 
HDTVChallenged's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 8,353
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Burton View Post

Even if I'm outputting 0-255?

At the very least, I think you would be able to set up one of the "User" modes for 0-255 and another one for 16-235.
HDTVChallenged is offline  
post #10 of 20 Old 03-19-2013, 12:34 AM
AVS Special Member
 
sotti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 6,609
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Burton View Post

Even if I'm outputting 0-255?

outputting or inputting?

The trick is it sounds like you are clipping your inputs.

You set the output with brightness and contrast, as long as you can turn brightness up and see to 0, and turn contrast down and see to 254, any adjustment for black level is just a course brightness/contrast setting.

If when you change the setting below 16 is completely clipped, then it's changing the signal on input, and is usually the wrong setting to use.


You always want to accept 0-255, then adjust the output to set the levels at the end.

Joel Barsotti
SpectraCal
CalMAN Lead Developer
sotti is offline  
post #11 of 20 Old 03-19-2013, 01:02 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Tyrone Burton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: UK,Cheshire
Posts: 466
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

outputting or inputting?

The trick is it sounds like you are clipping your inputs.

You set the output with brightness and contrast, as long as you can turn brightness up and see to 0, and turn contrast down and see to 254, any adjustment for black level is just a course brightness/contrast setting.

If when you change the setting below 16 is completely clipped, then it's changing the signal on input, and is usually the wrong setting to use.


You always want to accept 0-255, then adjust the output to set the levels at the end.
Yeah I meant set the projector to accept 0-255 (PC Signal), and have the PS3 set to output RGB full range. Thanks.

I forgot to say, so it doesn't matter if I'm using 0-255 if I properly set the brightness and contrast ect?

Tyrone Burton is offline  
post #12 of 20 Old 03-19-2013, 08:11 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Tyrone Burton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: UK,Cheshire
Posts: 466
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Ok, just to test. I set the PS3 to output 0-255 and the projector to accept it and also outputting YCBCR and the clipping still occurs. Idid the same again, this time with RGB...still clipping.

It seems the best thing to do is set everything properly, but I still get the clipping.I'm starting to think I should get a new BD player, maybe the PS3 can't accepth BTB or WTW info, or at least doesn't agree with the projector?

Tyrone Burton is offline  
post #13 of 20 Old 03-19-2013, 12:02 PM
AVS Special Member
 
sotti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 6,609
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Burton View Post

It seems the best thing to do is set everything properly, but I still get the clipping.I'm starting to think I should get a new BD player, maybe the PS3 can't accepth BTB or WTW info, or at least doesn't agree with the projector?

I you tell the PS3 it's outputting RGB 0-255, it will clip the blu-ray because you need to expand it to match the games. with an output of 0-255 nominal black for games is at 0, so the only way for it to match the blu-ray is to clip the BTB and WTW and expand the range from 16-235 to 0-255.

Why not use the PS3 as it was designed. Leave it in RGB limited for games and use YCC with superwhite on?

It takes a lot more work to fit square pegs into round holes.

Joel Barsotti
SpectraCal
CalMAN Lead Developer
sotti is offline  
post #14 of 20 Old 03-19-2013, 12:21 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Tyrone Burton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: UK,Cheshire
Posts: 466
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

I you tell the PS3 it's outputting RGB 0-255, it will clip the blu-ray because you need to expand it to match the games. with an output of 0-255 nominal black for games is at 0, so the only way for it to match the blu-ray is to clip the BTB and WTW and expand the range from 16-235 to 0-255.

Why not use the PS3 as it was designed. Leave it in RGB limited for games and use YCC with superwhite on?

It takes a lot more work to fit square pegs into round holes.
Well video games are created in 0-255 right? And so use 0-255. So I think it's only right to output what it is source 0-255, display 0-255. I don't mind switching between the two. If I'm honest, I never really understood what you said in another thread about older consoles graphics being rendered internally in 0-255.

I guess I'll just ave to accept my projector clips black ,White and RGB channels for movies. It's possible an update could be sent to fix it, as it's updateable.

Tyrone Burton is offline  
post #15 of 20 Old 03-19-2013, 12:46 PM
AVS Special Member
 
sotti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 6,609
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Burton View Post

Well video games are created in 0-255 right? And so use 0-255. So I think it's only right to output what it is source 0-255, display 0-255. I don't mind switching between the two. If I'm honest, I never really understood what you said in another thread about older consoles graphics being rendered internally in 0-255.

OpenGL and DirectX for the most part take the range of 0-1 for their color inputs and the exact bit depth and range is defined at render time.

Joel Barsotti
SpectraCal
CalMAN Lead Developer
sotti is offline  
post #16 of 20 Old 03-19-2013, 01:15 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Tyrone Burton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: UK,Cheshire
Posts: 466
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

OpenGL and DirectX for the most part take the range of 0-1 for their color inputs and the exact bit depth and range is defined at render time.
I see now yes.

Tyrone Burton is offline  
post #17 of 20 Old 02-21-2014, 08:18 AM
Member
 
Desisuperman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 73
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Don't want to start a new thread but I have a similar question for the same projector regarding the PC Signal option under HDMI options.

For my HTPC, I have Dynamic Range set to Full 0-255, Pixel Format YCBCR 4:2:2

Projector HDMI Settings is set to PC Signal

Does this make sense? Do have it setup correctly ? Thanks in advance for the help smile.gif
Desisuperman is offline  
post #18 of 20 Old 03-08-2014, 09:53 AM
Member
 
Desisuperman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 73
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Anyone?
Desisuperman is offline  
post #19 of 20 Old 03-08-2014, 10:25 AM
AVS Special Member
 
HDTVChallenged's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 8,353
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desisuperman View Post

Do have it setup correctly ?

Not really (for video sources,) but close enough that it will "work."

Surely there's a FAQ around here somewhere. ....
HDTVChallenged is offline  
post #20 of 20 Old 05-19-2014, 02:17 PM
Newbie
 
Feelingblue74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desisuperman View Post

Don't want to start a new thread but I have a similar question for the same projector regarding the PC Signal option under HDMI options.

For my HTPC, I have Dynamic Range set to Full 0-255, Pixel Format YCBCR 4:2:2

Projector HDMI Settings is set to PC Signal

Does this make sense? Do have it setup correctly ? Thanks in advance for the help smile.gif

 

depends on the software you use

 

If you are under windows best settings are always RGB Full. Never use YCBCR because video driver convert internally to RGB and then to YCBCR again. And it is bad

The only different situation is with PDVD or TMT in direct mode.

 

For example my HTPC is: MADVR in limited, video driver in RGB Full and w1070 in PC mode.

Only in this way i have BTB and WTW.

 

Then you regulate VPR to cut BTB and cut WTW (or see bar 254)

 

however unless you don't calibrate colors individually (hue and gain) my projector clips red and blue (but not white and green)

 

sorry for my english

Feelingblue74 is offline  
Reply Display Calibration

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off