CalMAN 5 Tutorial for Novice Calibrators - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 140 Old 02-05-2014, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by rrussell50 View Post

So it is ok to have a DeltaL of 1 Delta -11.4 and a DeltaH -0.2 ? Or should I continue adjusting until I get the DeltaC lower?

Nope sounds like you've done your best.

If the TV is undersaturated, like yours is, there is nothing you can do to increase the saturation.

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post #32 of 140 Old 02-05-2014, 09:04 AM
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I want to calibrate my Epson 8700ub would this work.

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post #33 of 140 Old 02-05-2014, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by jsil View Post

I want to calibrate my Epson 8700ub would this work.

The C3 isn't designed for use with projectors, you'd need an i1 Display Pro at a minimum to calibrate a projector. Other than that CalMAN tutorial or basic can walk you through calibration.

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post #34 of 140 Old 02-06-2014, 10:23 AM
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thanks, one last question, what should my goal be for setting gamut luminance under CMS? I know your workflow does not have it but I had seen it on a custom workflow and was wondering what the goal was for gamut luminance


thanks
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post #35 of 140 Old 02-06-2014, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by rrussell50 View Post

thanks, one last question, what should my goal be for setting gamut luminance under CMS? I know your workflow does not have it but I had seen it on a custom workflow and was wondering what the goal was for gamut luminance


thanks

Gamut Luminance is just another way of looking at detlaL, you can look at gamut luminance in absolute terms, green's target is 72%, or in a relative way where the target is 0%.

It's just different ways of visualizing the same information.

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post #36 of 140 Old 02-07-2014, 08:25 PM
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This might be a stupid question but how does step 5 change if I don't have a 10 point white balance control on my Samsung? I do have an independent gamma control though. So do I still follow the first part of step 5 and take all of the readings regardless, just to see my unadjusted gamma curve and then just use my gamma control to set it as close as possible to 2.2? Or can I not even take those initial readings you mention without a 10 pt control? And if not, how do I go about adjusting my gamma?
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post #37 of 140 Old 02-16-2014, 01:40 AM
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Great post! So why do plasmas need the Window instead of Field patterns? And if you only do a 2pt, can you choose absolute or does it have to be on relative greyscale?

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post #38 of 140 Old 02-16-2014, 07:38 AM
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Window patterns are used to mitigate ABL(auto brightness limiter), you can choose either absolute or relative but absolute factors in gamma in the de calculation.

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post #39 of 140 Old 02-16-2014, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZKACAL View Post

Great post! So why do plasmas need the Window instead of Field patterns? And if you only do a 2pt, can you choose absolute or does it have to be on relative greyscale?

Plasma Displays start to dim, the more fully lit pixels it displays. Using windows minimizes this dimming. Using constant APL patterns is even a step better.

If you are only doing a 2 point, you only have relative control, so we'd recommend only looking at relative RGB balance.

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post #40 of 140 Old 02-18-2014, 03:01 PM
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Sweet

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post #41 of 140 Old 02-19-2014, 01:57 AM
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Just completed first calibration using C3 meter with Calman 5 Tutorial Advanced. I only did a 2pt calibration because I couldn't understand the multi point instructions. Or maybe I couldn't adjust them on my TV. But despite that, only 50% and 90% were above 3. However I was able to fully adjust my color. Other than graph properties and advanced settings under the options, I am missing the fL reading. But my TV doesn't have a cell light option, it had a panel brightness option. Luckily my gamma was 2.2 so I think I did a decent job.

 

For the fL reading which Calman do I need to upgrade to?

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post #42 of 140 Old 02-23-2014, 11:26 PM
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"Now, click over to workflow advanced options. We want to leave these at default, including use measured white level (we want to set our gamma based on the white level your meter actually measures), and leave target black at 0."

 

Why do we leave target black at zero?

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post #43 of 140 Old 02-24-2014, 04:51 AM
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^^^That really depends on your meter and the display you are calibrating, if the mll of the display exceeds the limits of your meter then you would want to specify the reported mll instead of the measured black level

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post #44 of 140 Old 02-24-2014, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

^^^That really depends on your meter and the display you are calibrating, if the mll of the display exceeds the limits of your meter then you would want to specify the reported mll instead of the measured black level

OK so if one only owns a C3 meter, should the workflow settings be left at default? And is there a way to reset the settings without having to reinstall CalMAN?

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post #45 of 140 Old 02-24-2014, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZKACAL View Post

OK so if one only owns a C3 meter, should the workflow settings be left at default? And is there a way to reset the settings without having to reinstall CalMAN?

All the important settings should load with the workflows, unless you overwrote the original workflows (which would require changing their readonly status).

For PC calibrations we use sRGB as the EOTF (electro-optical transfer function) since it is the part of the color standard for the internet. The sRGB EOTF basically has a black offset baked into the formula since it came from a time when meters couldn't measure black level. For Home Theater calibration we recommend using BT.1886, which is designed to use the displays actual black level as part of the formula. For HT workflows the EOTF (gamma formula) should be set to BT.1886 and the black level setting to "use measured".

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post #46 of 140 Old 02-26-2014, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post


All the important settings should load with the workflows, unless you overwrote the original workflows (which would require changing their readonly status).

For PC calibrations we use sRGB as the EOTF (electro-optical transfer function) since it is the part of the color standard for the internet. The sRGB EOTF basically has a black offset baked into the formula since it came from a time when meters couldn't measure black level. For Home Theater calibration we recommend using BT.1886, which is designed to use the displays actual black level as part of the formula. For HT workflows the EOTF (gamma formula) should be set to BT.1886 and the black level setting to "use measured".

 

Why is it that when I select BT.1886 the target level for gamma becomes 2.4 in the workflow? You know the yellow target line is around 2.4. Am I just supposed to ignore it and aim for 2.2?

 

And I've set black level to "use measured" just like the white level.

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post #47 of 140 Old 02-26-2014, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZKACAL View Post

Why is it that when I select BT.1886 the target level for gamma becomes 2.4 in the workflow? You know the yellow target line is around 2.4. Am I just supposed to ignore it and aim for 2.2?

And I've set black level to "use measured" just like the white level.

The formula uses the measured black level and white level.

Once you measure 0% and 100% you'll get the target curve for your display.

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post #48 of 140 Old 02-26-2014, 10:04 PM
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The formula uses the measured black level and white level.

Once you measure 0% and 100% you'll get the target curve for your display.

OK so if the target curve says 2.4 for instance. Your TV may be set to 2.2 gamma but the meter's reading find it too low, so you have to bump it up to meet the target curve?

 

So CalMAN tells you to make it 2.4 so that it will really look like 2.2 because your TV is incorrect?

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post #49 of 140 Old 02-26-2014, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by ZKACAL View Post

OK so if the target curve says 2.4 for instance. Your TV may be set to 2.2 gamma but the meter's reading find it too low, so you have to bump it up to meet the target curve?

So CalMAN tells you to make it 2.4 so that it will really look like 2.2 because your TV is incorrect?

BT.1886 isn't a single number. It's a transfer function.

If you have 0.0 for your black level, then it's exactly 2.4, but your TV's black level isn't 0. So do a series read, see what numbers it pulls in, then calibrate from there. Make sure the data points you have selected include a 0% reading, otherwise, you'll need to manually enter your black reading.

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post #50 of 140 Old 02-26-2014, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post


BT.1886 isn't a single number. It's a transfer function.

If you have 0.0 for your black level, then it's exactly 2.4, but your TV's black level isn't 0. So do a series read, see what numbers it pulls in, then calibrate from there. Make sure the data points you have selected include a 0% reading, otherwise, you'll need to manually enter your black reading.

If the TV only has a 2pt then you only adjust gamma if needed. If the TV has a 10pt, do you adjust the grays first or the gamma first?

 

Edit: Just read through Marvin's post. He said to adjust gamma first then tweak it with the grayscale.

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post #51 of 140 Old 02-26-2014, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by ZKACAL View Post

If the TV only has a 2pt then you only adjust gamma if needed. If the TV has a 10pt, do you adjust the grays first or the gamma first?

Edit: Just read through Marvin's post. He said to adjust gamma first then tweak it with the grayscale.

What TV do you have?

Do brightness and contrast first.
With 2 point, you only worry about white point, do that first.
If you have a gamma control adjust that to get the closest fit.
Double check brightness and contrast, double check 2 point.
Then do 10 point. Technically a 10 point should only have RGB controls, so they all go up or down to get gamma correct. Panasonic in all their wisdom did it differently, so you really have to adjust all 4 at the same time for each point. I mean obviously you can only adjust one control at a time, but you'd check and then maybe gamma comes down a click and blue goes up a click.

But make sure to read your black and white points to set your BT.1886 curve before you dive into the adjustments.

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post #52 of 140 Old 02-27-2014, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post


What TV do you have?

Do brightness and contrast first.
With 2 point, you only worry about white point, do that first.
If you have a gamma control adjust that to get the closest fit.
Double check brightness and contrast, double check 2 point.
Then do 10 point. Technically a 10 point should only have RGB controls, so they all go up or down to get gamma correct. Panasonic in all their wisdom did it differently, so you really have to adjust all 4 at the same time for each point. I mean obviously you can only adjust one control at a time, but you'd check and then maybe gamma comes down a click and blue goes up a click.

But make sure to read your black and white points to set your BT.1886 curve before you dive into the adjustments.

I have multiple TVs in the house but I am starting out with Panasonic tc p50s60 calibration because that is my gaming TV (very low input lag).

 

When you say adjust gamma to get the closest fit, you mean making it meet the target line? Even if the target is not 2.2?

 

Last time I did a calibration on the same TV, with the default workflow settings, the gamma was 2.2 with dE of 0.7 I believe but the BT. 1886 formula was telling me to set gamma at 2.4. That is the only thing I am confused about. 

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post #53 of 140 Old 02-27-2014, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

But make sure to read your black and white points to set your BT.1886 curve before you dive into the adjustments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

BT.1886 isn't a single number. It's a transfer function.

If you have 0.0 for your black level, then it's exactly 2.4, but your TV's black level isn't 0. So do a series read, see what numbers it pulls in, then calibrate from there. Make sure the data points you have selected include a 0% reading, otherwise, you'll need to manually enter your black reading.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

The formula uses the measured black level and white level.

Once you measure 0% and 100% you'll get the target curve for your display.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

. For Home Theater calibration we recommend using BT.1886, which is designed to use the displays actual black level as part of the formula. For HT workflows the EOTF (gamma formula) should be set to BT.1886 and the black level setting to "use measured".

I don't know any other ways to talk about this.

Read black, read white, you'll get something that isn't a flat line, calibrate to that.
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post #54 of 140 Old 02-27-2014, 04:25 PM
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Cool. I will post my results when I'm done. Thanks for the help.

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post #55 of 140 Old 03-11-2014, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post


What TV do you have?

Do brightness and contrast first.
With 2 point, you only worry about white point, do that first.
If you have a gamma control adjust that to get the closest fit.
Double check brightness and contrast, double check 2 point.
Then do 10 point. Technically a 10 point should only have RGB controls, so they all go up or down to get gamma correct. Panasonic in all their wisdom did it differently, so you really have to adjust all 4 at the same time for each point. I mean obviously you can only adjust one control at a time, but you'd check and then maybe gamma comes down a click and blue goes up a click.

But make sure to read your black and white points to set your BT.1886 curve before you dive into the adjustments.

I was having trouble with the BT.1886 because my C3 can't read the darkest gray or 0%. I will have to upgrade my meter once it shifts.

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post #56 of 140 Old 03-15-2014, 12:33 AM
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How do you delete saved sessions from CalMAN?
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post #57 of 140 Old 03-15-2014, 05:42 AM
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Go into C:\Users\name_of_user\Documents\SpectraCal\CalMAN 5 Home Theater\CDFs, find session and delete using windows explorer (total commander etc...)
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post #58 of 140 Old 03-15-2014, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by prsut View Post

Go into C:\Users\name_of_user\Documents\SpectraCal\CalMAN 5 Home Theater\CDFs, find session and delete using windows explorer (total commander etc...)

Correct, but if you delete all files there, you will still see your sessions @ CalMAN's list when you will click to load a saved session.

This bug has been reported from 2012, it's still unfixed.
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post #59 of 140 Old 03-15-2014, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

Correct, but if you delete all files there, you will still see your sessions @ CalMAN's list when you will click to load a saved session.

This bug has been reported from 2012, it's still unfixed.

I agree it should be fixed.
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post #60 of 140 Old 03-16-2014, 04:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prsut View Post

Go into C:\Users\name_of_user\Documents\SpectraCal\CalMAN 5 Home Theater\CDFs, find session and delete using windows explorer (total commander etc...)

I did this but now I can't even open the sessions I that didn't delete. However, all the sessions still show up like Ted said. 

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