3D LUT device for use with PCs? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 18 Old 04-26-2013, 06:50 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm looking for a device, similar to a Radiance or an eeColor/ColorBox which would go inline between my computer and monitor. I saw Sotti's comment that the eeColor/ColorBox wasn't suitable for use with PC-levels because of the "truncated" nature of the CMS. That made me wonder, what devices are available that work well for this application?
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post #2 of 18 Old 04-27-2013, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ams2990 View Post

I'm looking for a device, similar to a Radiance or an eeColor/ColorBox which would go inline between my computer and monitor. I saw Sotti's comment that the eeColor/ColorBox wasn't suitable for use with PC-levels because of the "truncated" nature of the CMS. That made me wonder, what devices are available that work well for this application?

The only device that would really even be close would be a Davio.

You'd be best served by buying something like an Eizo or NEC that has a 3D LUT built-in to the monitor.

Joel Barsotti
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CalMAN Lead Developer
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post #3 of 18 Old 04-27-2013, 09:21 AM
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Flanders Scientific also just announced a lower cost monitor that supports 3D LUTs.

Other options are use a Blackmagic Design or AJA GPU for it's SDI output and if needed run the SDI out via a HDLink SDI to HDMI. You will get reference out over SDI.

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post #4 of 18 Old 04-27-2013, 11:56 AM
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Flanders Scientific monitors are definitely worth looking at - they have adopted LightSpace CMS for all their calibration, and they come well calibrated from the factory.

See: http://myemail.constantcontact.com/Exciting-New-Features-Including-LightSpace-CMS-Compatibility-for-10bit-Units-.html?soid=1102356663209&aid=eE0-43Kq4RM

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post #5 of 18 Old 04-27-2013, 11:59 AM
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Having said that, I use eeColor LUT boxes for my PC displays, and they work perfectly...

A cheap way to provide a good level of calibration.

There is no issue with full range signals as a bit of understanding, and white pre-calibration, deals perfectly with any potential problems biggrin.gif

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post #6 of 18 Old 04-27-2013, 01:06 PM
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“We’ve long used CalMAN as a final quality control check to ensure every monitor is properly calibrated before shipping” said Bram Desmet, General Manager at Flanders Scientific. “We’re pleased to be able to expand upon this now with CalMAN’s new ability to allow users to generate 3D LUT based calibrations for direct import to any FSI monitor equipped with our advanced Color Fidelity Engine,” Desmet said.

SpectraCal and Flanders Scientific Announce 3D LUT Calibration for FSI Broadcast Monitors

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post #7 of 18 Old 04-27-2013, 01:25 PM
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Yep, they use CalMan for 'Reports' - never said they didn't.
We all know LightSpace is not a 'Report' based package.

But they use LightSpace for calibration biggrin.gif

FSI even sell LightSpace: http://www.shopfsi.com/category-s/48.htm

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post #8 of 18 Old 04-27-2013, 01:52 PM
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I'll stake my reputation as a former US Marine Corps officer that I'm not a liar. Sigh

I spoke with Flanders on the telephone just yesterday afternoon. They use LightSpace for calibration.

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post #9 of 18 Old 04-27-2013, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derekjsmith View Post

“We’ve long used CalMAN as a final quality control check to ensure every monitor is properly calibrated before shipping” said Bram Desmet, General Manager at Flanders Scientific.

Flanders used CalMAN for REPORTING ...

Quote:
“We’re pleased to be able to expand upon this now with CalMAN’s new ability to allow users to generate 3D LUT based calibrations for direct import to any FSI monitor equipped with our advanced Color Fidelity Engine,” Desmet said.

USERS are allowed to generate 3D LUT based calibration with CalMAN ... but Flanders doesn't use CalMAN for calibrating ...

It's important to read BETWEEN the lines wink.gif

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post #10 of 18 Old 04-27-2013, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

You'd be best served by buying something like an Eizo or NEC that has a 3D LUT built-in to the monitor.

Eizo screens have a built-in LUT, but the current problem is that the 2 sw packages that I am aware of that are capable of uploading a 3D LUT to the Eizo (Eizo's own Color Navigator and basICColor) do not support meter profiling (spectro offset for a colorimeter), which makes their use in color critical applications limited... I've requested to both solutions the implementation of meter profiling a while ago...

I've read there was a project associated with Argyll that could directly write to the Eizo, but user reported results were not so good...

Hopefully other sw solutions (with meter profiling support) will be able to directly access the Eizo and upload 3D LUT's in the future !

- M

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post #11 of 18 Old 04-27-2013, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Mike View Post


Hopefully other sw solutions (with meter profiling support) will be able to directly access the Eizo and upload 3D LUT's in the future !

- M

Working on it. Eizo was shown in our booth at NAB.

Derek

CTO / Founder - SpectraCal Inc.
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post #12 of 18 Old 04-27-2013, 04:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derekjsmith View Post

Working on it. Eizo was shown in our booth at NAB.
So I interpret this as saying CalMAN does not currently support writing LUTs into either of the above mentioned monitors. What about the Davio? Once available, will any of these be allowed under the personal license, or only the professional licenses?
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post #13 of 18 Old 04-27-2013, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ams2990 View Post

So I interpret this as saying CalMAN does not currently support writing LUTs into either of the above mentioned monitors. What about the Davio? Once available, will any of these be allowed under the personal license, or only the professional licenses?

the Davio is an external LUT box, there are a few solutions that can generate LUT's for this device... Davio is expensive, though... before spending that money you could think of buying a better pro monitor that has internal LUT storage, just as an option....

btw, I hope Lightspace is also working on writing directly to the Eizo, so hopefully soon we'll have a few solutions at our hands !

- M

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post #14 of 18 Old 04-27-2013, 05:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Me too...competition is always good. Does anyone have more details about the size of 3D LUT in the Eizo monitors? All I can find is the blurb
Quote:
3D LUT for Better Additive Color Mixture

The monitor utilizes a new EIZO-developed 3D LUT. Whereas a typical 1D LUT adjusts color on separate tables for each red, green, and blue, a 3D LUT accomplishes this on a single, mixed-color cubic table. A 3D LUT improves the monitor's additive color mixture (combination of RGB), a key factor in its ability to display neutral gray tones.
which is, of course, true, but is also incredibly unhelpful.
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post #15 of 18 Old 04-28-2013, 01:04 AM
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We are presently under NDA with Eizo... so we can't say anything.

cool.gif

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post #16 of 18 Old 04-28-2013, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ams2990 View Post

So I interpret this as saying CalMAN does not currently support writing LUTs into either of the above mentioned monitors. What about the Davio? Once available, will any of these be allowed under the personal license, or only the professional licenses?

FSI is already supported in CalMAN 5.11, working on Eizo. We are also working with many more display and LUT processor manufacturers, only so many hours in a day.

As of CalMAN 5.11 we support:

3D LUT devices:
- Pandora Pluto
- CineTal Davio
- eeColor/ColorBox
- Flanders Scientific
- Blackmagic HDLink
- Lumagen Radiance

3D LUT files:
- 3DL
- CSV
- CUBE
- M3D
- MGA
- CLT

1D LUT devices:
- AV Foundry VideoEQ
- Runco DHD series
- JVC RS series
- DPI Titan and Lighting
- FPS IA200
- Lumagen Radiance
- SpectraCal Client II (PC)
- SpectraCal Client III (PC/Mac)
e08 likes this.

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post #17 of 18 Old 04-29-2013, 06:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Derek, of those, only the eeColor/ColorBox and the Radiance are supported under the "Personal Home Theater" licenses, correct? Also, any reasonable guess for a timeframe on the Eizo? Also, which license type will it be supported by?
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post #18 of 18 Old 05-01-2013, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ams2990 View Post

Derek, of those, only the eeColor/ColorBox and the Radiance are supported under the "Personal Home Theater" licenses, correct? Also, any reasonable guess for a timeframe on the Eizo? Also, which license type will it be supported by?

Yes eeColor/ColorBox and Radiance. We are working on the Eizo code now so it will be a few weeks for field testing. Not sure yet at which level we will license this in.

Derek

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