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post #3181 of 3201 Old Yesterday, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
FYI: The latest madVR v0.87.15 now has a 3dlut split screen functionality. You can activate it via keyboard shortcut (default Ctrl+Alt+Shift+3).
And that does what?

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post #3182 of 3201 Old Yesterday, 10:26 AM
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Comparaison between with and without I think
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post #3183 of 3201 Old Yesterday, 10:28 AM
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Why don't you just give it a try?
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post #3184 of 3201 Old Yesterday, 12:21 PM
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I am trying 2.9.x and have recently picked up an i1pro rev d. It is installed correctly and can be seen by chromapure, dispcalgui is not seeing it though. If I click the refresh button then it just says the following in the logs

Code:
20:18:45,400 Enumerating display devices and communication ports...
20:18:45,419 ...ok.
how do I debug this? is it some argyll setting? I might get RTFM'ed now but it's not obvious whether I have to use the argyll driver or I use the xrite driver

One thing I noticed is that changing to the 1.7 version of argyll in the 0install settings didn't change the "location of the argyll executables" in dispcalgui so changing to 1.7 didn't actually change what dispcalgui was using. Setting this to the 1.7 version didn't fix the issue btw.

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post #3185 of 3201 Old Yesterday, 12:53 PM
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To be able to see the i1pro with dispcalgui\argyll, you have to install the i1pro argyll driver (not the XRite driver) present in Your_Argyll_install_directory\usb

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post #3186 of 3201 Old Yesterday, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RajinderGill View Post
Thanks so much - this definitely helps
Same for me, it's perfect! Great thanks fhoech!
Now do you have an explication why we can see below 235 on this video with blanking bars? I can see until 250 when I activate the 3dlut!!
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwd...ew?usp=sharing
During a movie it looks good.
Thanks

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post #3187 of 3201 Old Yesterday, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Francois76l View Post
To be able to see the i1pro with dispcalgui\argyll, you have to install the i1pro argyll driver (not the XRite driver) present in Your_Argyll_install_directory\usb
The easiest way to do this is probably through the respective menu item in the "Tools" menu. Just follow the instructions there.
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post #3188 of 3201 Old Yesterday, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fhoech View Post
Try the following in the 3D LUT maker (not the 3D LUT tab as you can't set a custom source profile there):

  • Set source profile to the attached one. It is a synthetic profile with BT.1886-like transfer function, that has roughly a gamma of 2.0 at around 1% input level, goes through gamma 2.27 at around 10% input level and has an overall gamma of 2.35
  • Set tone curve to unmodified
  • Set target profile to the profile of your projector
Fhoech is it possible to have a source profile for a pure power gamma curve instead of BT1886 when > 20 ire?
This is what I obtained with your custom source profile but I would like a 2.4 gamma
I don't really know if it's possible
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post #3189 of 3201 Old Yesterday, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fhoech View Post
The easiest way to do this is probably through the respective menu item in the "Tools" menu. Just follow the instructions there.
OK right, I ignored that as the dialog says (or I read it as saying) you don't need this if you have an i1pro I went through those steps and installed successfully, the device appears as an argyll device in Device Manager & in dispcalgui.

This might be a horribly noob question but I then went to create a colorimeter correction and encountered lots of fail.

Firstly I'm unsure whether I pick matrix or spectral, I assume the latter and that I will subsequently click matrix when I attach my i1d3.
I click measure & it flashes with a message about putting the i1pro on the test plate.
I do this and it sits there and does nothing.
I then alt+tab back to the desktop then I see a dialog saying "Place the instrument onto its reflective white surface (with the serial no) and press OK to calibrate". I do this and it says "failed!".
The log says "Measurement misread (Light Level is too low)".

I then switched back to the xrite drivers & ran i1diagnostics which seemed to pass ok.

Suggestions appreciated!

Last edited by 3ll3d00d; Yesterday at 02:58 PM.
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post #3190 of 3201 Old Today, 02:01 AM
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Hello 3ll3d00d,
In "Options" menu you will find two options for spectrometers:
- Allow skipping of spectrometer self-calibration which mean that you will not be prompted with the dialog box "Place the instrument onto its reflective white surface (with the serial no) and press OK to calibrate" during the generation of your correction. If you select this option you have to make the self-calibration manually before creating your correction matrix.
- Spectrometer self-calibration which allow you to make the self-calibration manually

For colorimeter correction with your spectro and your colorimeter, you have to select matrix type.

Concerning the reflective white surface (with the serial no), normally with your i1pro you should have receive a calibration plate (see attachment)
Are you sure you correctly place your i1pro on this calibration plate?
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post #3191 of 3201 Old Today, 02:09 AM
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How does one perform the self calibration manually? Just by choosing the 2nd option you mention?

I have that plate. As far as I can see it only goes on one way, i.e. with the white dot visible in your pic placed over the aperture on the i1 and the lower slot placed over the "feet" on the i1. Is this incorrect?
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post #3192 of 3201 Old Today, 02:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fhoech View Post
Try the following in the 3D LUT maker (not the 3D LUT tab as you can't set a custom source profile there):

  • Set source profile to the attached one. It is a synthetic profile with BT.1886-like transfer function, that has roughly a gamma of 2.0 at around 1% input level, goes through gamma 2.27 at around 10% input level and has an overall gamma of 2.35
  • Set tone curve to unmodified
  • Set target profile to the profile of your projector
In the last few days I noticed that I was getting some black crush when using a 3D LUT with BT1886 tone curve. Using AVSHD "Black Pattern" I had only visible bars 20 and up.

I did another LUT with Gamma 2.2 and things improved a little with bar 19 and up visible.

Using the above .icm it helped a little more and now I have bar 18 and up.

I also been trying to play with "Full range" and "Limited Range" in madVR and on the TV.

If I use these settings:

Option A):
-Intel HD4000 graphics : Full Range
-MPC-HC: default
-LAV Video Decoder : Untouched
-MadVR: Limited (16-235)
-TV Black Level: Low

I need to decrease Brightness from the usual 55 to 40% in order to correct the visible black bars to show only the right 17 and up (or else I can see all bars from bar 2 and up). If I use this setting I don't have any black crush (with a 3DLUT created from the synthetic profile, if with BT1886 I get 20 and up with the same brightness level).

if I use these settings:

Option B):
-Intel HD4000 graphics : Full Range
-MPC-HC: default
-LAV Video Decoder : Untouched
-MadVR: Full Range
-TV Black Level: Low

I can have Brightness at the usual levels of 55 with no greys but no matter what I do, I can only have bars 19 and up visible. Increasing or decreasing brightness will not turn any more bars visible.

So, I believe option A should be more correct, even though I have to low brightness to as low as 40% from the usual 55% I have with the rest of the all equipment.

Btw, whenever I use TV Black Level on High I always have "super greys" (either in full range or limited) and only show 18 and up black bars.

This is so weird...

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
FYI: The latest madVR v0.87.15 now has a 3dlut split screen functionality. You can activate it via keyboard shortcut (default Ctrl+Alt+Shift+3).
This is a fantastic functionality. With this I can see the "before" and "after" and really see the improvements made by the 3D LUT... nicely done
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post #3193 of 3201 Old Today, 02:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ll3d00d View Post
How does one perform the self calibration manually? Just by choosing the 2nd option you mention?

I have that plate. As far as I can see it only goes on one way, i.e. with the white dot visible in your pic placed over the aperture on the i1 and the lower slot placed over the "feet" on the i1. Is this incorrect?
This is correct.

You place the I1Pro on the plate when asked by DCG. Then when it finishes you remove it and place it on the TV with the colorimeter and let DCG use both to measure the 4 patterns (white, red, green and blue)

In the end save the correction file and use it for the rest of the DCG process.
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post #3194 of 3201 Old Today, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Francois76l View Post
fhoech, if the i1d3 is not accurate enough for blacks reading, what's the gamma we can expect at low ires with this custom profile?
Quote:
Originally Posted by fhoech
It is a synthetic profile with BT.1886-like transfer function, that has roughly a gamma of 2.0 at around 1% input level, goes through gamma 2.27 at around 10% input level and has an overall gamma of 2.35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Francois76l View Post
Does it impact the gamma at higher ires?
Yes, although less than at the low end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Francois76l View Post
Is it possible to have a profile for a pure power gamma curve 2.4 (ie 2.4 rel + 100% black output offset)
The whole point of the custom profile was so you can have floating gamma on a "perfect" zero black level display/projector. If you want pure power gamma, just use Rec. 1886 (equivalent to 2.4 pure power when black level is zero) or custom.
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post #3195 of 3201 Old Today, 06:40 AM
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@fhoech
So for you BT.1886 is the best gamma we can expect? You think it's always better than a linear gamma curve?
I have a dedicated room for my projector and I always read that in my case a linear gamma @ 2.4 is better because BT.1886 make a decompression on low ires that causes a compression on high ires. BT.1886 is more or less for non dedicated room.
Is it totally false?

Anyway, as I understand it, I can never properly calibrate a linear gamma 2.4 with my i1d3 on my JVC because the i1d3 is not accurate enough for blacks reading. Right?

Thanks again fhoech

@madshi : Thanks for the 3dlut split screen functionality. Very useful, well done

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post #3196 of 3201 Old Today, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Francois76l View Post
@fhoech
So for you BT.1886 is the best gamma we can expect? You think it's always better than a linear gamma curve?
The "best" gamma or transfer function would be the one the content was mastered to. In most cases, we don't know, so it becomes a user preference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Francois76l View Post
I have a dedicated room for my projector and I always read that in my case a linear gamma @ 2.4 is better because BT.1886 make a decompression on low ires that causes a compression on high ires. BT.1886 is more or less for non dedicated room.
Is it totally false?
On a zero black level display, BT.1886 is equivalent to a pure power function with exponent 2.4.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Francois76l View Post
Anyway, as I understand it, I can never properly calibrate a linear gamma 2.4 with my i1d3 on my JVC because the i1d3 is not accurate enough for blacks reading. Right?
Not necessarily. But if your i1D3 reads zero where it should read something, then it'll limit your options re the transfer curve because no matter what you choose it will effectively result in a pure power curve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepelegal
In the last few days I noticed that I was getting some black crush when using a 3D LUT with BT1886 tone curve. Using AVSHD "Black Pattern" I had only visible bars 20 and up.
If you're able to see bar 17 and slightly above flashing on the (e.g.) AVSHD black clipping test pattern is very dependent on the transfer function and black level. To try and explain this:

As an example, let's assume a display with actual zero black level and 120 cd/m2 peak white, and a gamma of 2.4.
The contrast ratio of a full black (0%) picture element towards a full white (100%) picture element in this example would be infinite. At 1% stimulus (digital level 17), the luminance (in absolute Y) would be ((1.0 / (235 - 16)) ^ 2.4 * 120) or 0.0002898 cd/m2 (that is 103 times lower than the black level of my own LCD TV ), and the contrast ratio towards white is 414062 : 1. Now what this means is that you would have to be perfectly dark adapted (takes roughly half an hour in a dark room) and there should be no bright picture elements in view (yes, the text on the test pattern can already throw your eyes off even though it's not full white) to be able to see that, because while the dynamic range of the eye is huge, the static contrast ability is said to be typically less than 1000 : 1 for elements that are in view simultaneously.
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post #3197 of 3201 Old Today, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fhoech View Post
The "best" gamma or transfer function would be the one the content was mastered to. In most cases, we don't know, so it becomes a user preference.
On a zero black level display, BT.1886 is equivalent to a pure power function with exponent 2.4.
Totally agree with this. Since there is no standard it's a user preference.
If I want to keep my linear gamma @ 2.4 above 20 ires and lower the gamma from 2.4 to 2 between 20 and 0 ires to be able to see the flashing bars 17 to 20, how can I proceed?

And last question, how can I be sure that my i1d3 can't read the blacks? In the cal file?

I think I really have to make a donation with all my stupids questions/demands....

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post #3198 of 3201 Old Today, 09:15 AM
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This one should give you what you want using an effective bt.1886 gamma of 2.4 and black level of 0.01. btw, you can use the create synthetic icc tool to play around with these yourself.
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post #3199 of 3201 Old Today, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Francois76l View Post
And last question, how can I be sure that my i1d3 can't read the blacks? In the cal file?
Look at the measurement TI3 file. If RGB 0 0 0 has an XYZ of 0 0 0, then either your display has a zero black level or the instrument may not have been able to read so low as to measure the actual black level.
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post #3200 of 3201 Old Today, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepelegal View Post
I need to decrease Brightness from the usual 55 to 40% in order to correct the visible black bars to show only the right 17 and up (or else I can see all bars from bar 2 and up). If I use this setting I don't have any black crush (with a 3DLUT created from the synthetic profile, if with BT1886 I get 20 and up with the same brightness level).
I believe this to be a side-effect when setting tone curve to "Unmodified" in the 3D LUT maker, it raises the black level, and I was in error when I said to use that in conjunction with the custom profile I made available. The correct choice would be "Apply black output offset (100%)", but you currently can't select this for custom profiles with gamma-like characteristic or if the display profile black point is below or equal to the source profile black point as it's grayed out. I'll enable this with an update.

Update now available: DCG 2.9.0.6 Beta

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post #3201 of 3201 Old Today, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fhoech View Post
Look at the measurement TI3 file. If RGB 0 0 0 has an XYZ of 0 0 0, then either your display has a zero black level or the instrument may not have been able to read so low as to measure the actual black level.
So in my case it looks like the i1d3 can't read my actual black level...
I have a lot of XYZ at 0 0 0 even if RGB is not equal to 0 0 0 (see attachment)!!
Maybe it would be a good idea if DispCalGUI can detect this and send a warning.
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File Type: zip X35_madVR 2015-03-21 0.3127x 0.3291y Rec. 1886 S XYZLUT.zip (52.1 KB, 1 views)

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