MadVR - ArgyllCMS - Page 115 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3421 of 3621 Old 04-28-2015, 10:48 AM
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I've disabled dithering in madVR and results look good (banding free) on both LCD monitors with 10bit output, while there's heavy banding in 8bit output. Still, it's possible that the GPUs are dithering internally and only output 8bit to the LCD monitors. I can't check that because the LCD monitors don't show me which bitdepth they receive. But is it likely that all AMD, NVidia and Intel are properly dithering in this situation? I kinda doubt it.

My projector tells me which bitdepth it receives. With AMD it's always 10bit. With NVidia, it's usually 8bit, unless I ask for 10bit, then NVidia switches to 12bit output. However, image quality sucks at 10bit/12bit output with my projector. Looks much better with dithered 8bit.

I think with all information combined I can conclude that native 10bit output likely works fine with all GPUs I've tested. I've tested this only on Windows 8.1 for now, though. Hope it also works in Windows 7 with the Platform Update installed, not sure yet. It won't work in XP or Vista, for sure.
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post #3422 of 3621 Old 04-28-2015, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I can't check that because the LCD monitors don't show me which bitdepth they receive.
Same here, so I assumed dithered output and not higher than 8 bit depth output (based on the information, if it's true, that only AMD and Quadro cards can do the latter), although technically the TV atleast should be able to receive a high bit depth signal as it's HDMI 1.3 compatible.

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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
But is it likely that all AMD, NVidia and Intel are properly dithering in this situation? I kinda doubt it.
Good point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
My projector tells me which bitdepth it receives. With AMD it's always 10bit. With NVidia, it's usually 8bit, unless I ask for 10bit, then NVidia switches to 12bit output. However, image quality sucks at 10bit/12bit output with my projector. Looks much better with dithered 8bit.
Hmm. So is this an issue with this particular projector and high bitdepth signals? Does the image also degrade with the AMD card?

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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I think with all information combined I can conclude that native 10bit output likely works fine with all GPUs I've tested. I've tested this only on Windows 8.1 for now, though. Hope it also works in Windows 7 with the Platform Update installed, not sure yet. It won't work in XP or Vista, for sure.
I wish I could figure out if my graphics card is sending a higher than 8 bit signal to the TV. I'm certain it's not the case for my desktop monitor as over DVI it would require a dual-link connection AFAIK, and I think the monitor does only support 8-bit input.

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post #3423 of 3621 Old 04-28-2015, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fhoech View Post
Hmm. So is this an issue with this particular projector and high bitdepth signals? Does the image also degrade with the AMD card?
I believe it's an issue with this specific projector. The image degrades in a similar way with both NVidia and AMD.


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Originally Posted by fhoech View Post
I wish I could figure out if my graphics card is sending a higher than 8 bit signal to the TV. I'm certain it's not the case for my desktop monitor as over DVI it would require a dual-link connection AFAIK, and I think the monitor does only support 8-bit input.
I think most GPU DVI outputs are dual-link these days. E.g. I've got 1080p60 with RGB 12bit out of the DVI port of my NVidia GPU, using a DVI->HDMI adapter (according to my projector). But to be honest, I've no idea which computer monitors support more than 8bit RGB input and which don't. My computer monitors are pretty old, so I didn't think they would support it. But they both show a nicely banding free gray ramp with 10bit output, with dithering turned off in madVR, with all Intel, NVidia and AMD. So I'm not sure what to think.

Well, a new madVR version with 10bit output will be available soon, then we'll get some more feedback from users...
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post #3424 of 3621 Old 04-28-2015, 04:11 PM
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madshi you are aware of this new option in the AMD driver:
http://abload.de/img/amdbitdeepcontrol43u54.png

was added in one of the 14.x driver.
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post #3425 of 3621 Old 04-28-2015, 04:28 PM
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There was a discussion on GPU ability to output certain bit depth. I remembered it kind of concluded PRO cards are only needed for OPENGL 30bit.

yea, and that AMD CCC thingy that added last year. It is a total different option from the pro card 10bit option page.
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post #3426 of 3621 Old 04-29-2015, 12:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
madshi you are aware of this new option in the AMD driver:
http://abload.de/img/amdbitdeepcontrol43u54.png

was added in one of the 14.x driver.
Ah yes, I remember that option. Maybe I should update my driver...
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post #3427 of 3621 Old 04-29-2015, 02:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post

Well, a new madVR version with 10bit output will be available soon, then we'll get some more feedback from users...
Maybe you add in new madVR version and 12bit output?
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post #3428 of 3621 Old 04-29-2015, 02:37 AM
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Windows doesn't know/support 12bit output. It only supports 10bit or 16bit. And 16bit support is very weird, and broken in most drivers. So I won't support that (for now).
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post #3429 of 3621 Old 04-29-2015, 10:02 AM
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I have an AMD video card for my laptop. I can confirm that my video card can for a fact output 8,10,12 bit video levels. However what you need to be careful of is that the AMD video card(well at least mine anyways) is not bit perfect. I have verified this with my DVDO TPG with its colorchecker feature.
What is interesting though is that I now use a usb to HDMI converter box instead of using the HDMI output on my laptop. This setup does in fact produce dead on bit perfect levels.

I guess it could be something specific to my laptop too, but I just wanted to throw it out there.
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post #3430 of 3621 Old 04-30-2015, 02:16 AM
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Hello,

I'm new to calibration, and I'm trying to create my first 3DLUT for MadVR using a i1-Pro, on my Panasonic Plasma P55ST60. I've set both TV and video card (Intel HD5000) for 0-255.

Here is the result I get after calibration :


The calibration curve seems odd ?



And the result text :
Quote:
Size 399300 Bytes (389.94 KiB)
Preferred CMM 0x6172676C 'argl' Argyll CMS
ICC version 2.2
Profile class Display device profile
Color model RGB
Profile connection space (PCS) XYZ
Created 2015-04-30 02:39:25
Platform Microsoft
Is embedded No
Can be used independently Yes
Device
Manufacturer 0x00000000
Model 0x00000000
Attributes Reflective
Glossy
Positive
Color
Default rendering intent Media-relative colorimetric
PCS illuminant XYZ 96.42 100.00 82.49 (xy 0.3457 0.3585, CCT 5000K)
Creator 0x6172676C 'argl' Argyll CMS
Checksum 0xCA8BF27F329BE52ED9471C3BFBE248C2
Checksum OK Yes
Description (ASCII) madVR 2015-04-29 0.3127x 0.329y Rec. 1886 S XYZLUT
Copyright No copyright. Created with dispcalGUI 2.6.0.0 and
Argyll CMS 1.6.3
Device model name (ASCII) madVR
Luminance 42.82 cd/m²
Media white point
Is illuminant Yes
Illuminant-relative XYZ 95.26 100.00 109.40 (xy 0.3127 0.3282)
Illuminant-relative CCT 6511K
ΔE 2000 to daylight locus 0.44
ΔE 2000 to blackbody locus 2.66
Media black point
Illuminant-relative XYZ 0.0168 0.0153 0.0320 (xy 0.2619 0.2381)
Illuminant-relative CCT 30606K
Colorants (PCS-relative)
Red XYZ 107.14 55.10 3.19 (xy 0.6476 0.3331)
Green XYZ 77.63 142.15 19.01 (xy 0.3251 0.5953)
Blue XYZ 40.68 18.38 198.98 (xy 0.1576 0.0712)
Video card gamma table
Bitdepth 16
Channels 3
Number of entries per channel 256
Channel 1 gamma at 50% input 1.70
Channel 1 minimum 0.1694%
Channel 1 maximum 93.66%
Channel 1 unique values 168 @ 8 Bit
Channel 1 is linear No
Channel 2 gamma at 50% input 1.70
Channel 2 minimum 0.1953%
Channel 2 maximum 94.71%
Channel 2 unique values 170 @ 8 Bit
Channel 2 is linear No
Channel 3 gamma at 50% input 1.69
Channel 3 minimum 0.7843%
Channel 3 maximum 95.19%
Channel 3 unique values 168 @ 8 Bit
Channel 3 is linear No
Device to PCS: Intent 0
Matrix 1.0000 0.0000 0.0000
0.0000 1.0000 0.0000
0.0000 0.0000 1.0000
Input Table
Channels 3
Number of entries per channel 2048
Color Look Up Table
Grid Steps 33
Entries 35937
Output Table
Channels 3
Number of entries per channel 2048
PCS to device: Intent 0
Matrix 1.0000 0.0000 0.0000
0.0000 1.0000 0.0000
0.0000 0.0000 1.0000
Input Table
Channels 3
Number of entries per channel 512
Color Look Up Table
Grid Steps 9
Entries 729
Output Table
Channels 3
Number of entries per channel 512
Red matrix column
Illuminant-relative XYZ 18.13 7.24 95.53 (xy 0.1500 0.0599)
PCS-relative XYZ 14.31 6.06 71.41 (xy 0.1559 0.0660)
Green matrix column
Illuminant-relative XYZ 41.29 21.28 1.94 (xy 0.6400 0.3299)
PCS-relative XYZ 43.61 22.25 1.39 (xy 0.6485 0.3309)
Blue matrix column
Illuminant-relative XYZ 35.84 71.47 11.96 (xy 0.3005 0.5992)
PCS-relative XYZ 38.51 71.69 9.71 (xy 0.3212 0.5978)
Red tone response curve
Number of entries 256
Transfer function sRGB
Minimum Y 0.0000
Maximum Y 100.00
Green tone response curve
Number of entries 256
Transfer function sRGB
Minimum Y 0.0000
Maximum Y 100.00
Blue tone response curve
Number of entries 256
Transfer function sRGB
Minimum Y 0.0000
Maximum Y 100.00
Characterization target [144316 Bytes]
Characterization device values [144316 Bytes]
Characterization measurement values [144316 Bytes]
Chromaticity (illuminant-relative)
Channel 1 (R) xy 0.6395 0.3323
Channel 2 (G) xy 0.3041 0.5968
Channel 3 (B) xy 0.1511 0.0638
Metadata
CMF_binary dispcalGUI
CMF_version 2.6.0.0
CMF_product dispcalGUI
License Public Domain
Quality high
OPENICC_automatic_generated 0
DATA_source calib
MEASUREMENT_device i1 displaypro, colormunki display
prefix CMF_
DATA_
MEASUREMENT_
OPENICC_
ACCURACY_
GAMUT_
ACCURACY_dE76_avg 1.079490
ACCURACY_dE76_max 9.718158
ACCURACY_dE76_rms 1.806122
GAMUT_volume 1.83057427865
GAMUT_coverage(srgb) 0.9931
GAMUT_coverage(adobe-rgb) 0.8209

My main concern is when saving the 3DLUT :

Why Input and Output encoding are set to 16-235 instead of 0-255 ?

Also, What should I do on my TV before calibration with settings like contrast, luminosity ? I know that on computer screen we usually set the contrast to the maximum before doing calibration, do I need to do the same here ?


Thanks for your help !
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post #3431 of 3621 Old 04-30-2015, 04:25 AM
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Is there somewhere one can see how much of the target garmut the display covers? E.g. 97% of sRGB or something like that.
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post #3432 of 3621 Old 04-30-2015, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petoulachi View Post
Looks like a problem with ABL. Enable white level drift compensation and use small pattern size e.g. 8% with 22-25% background level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by petoulachi View Post
Why Input and Output encoding are set to 16-235 instead of 0-255 ?
Because that's the (only) correct setting for madVR 3D LUTs. As a side note, this has nothing to do with 0..255 / 16..235 in madVR or video driver settings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by petoulachi View Post
Also, What should I do on my TV before calibration with settings like contrast, luminosity ? I know that on computer screen we usually set the contrast to the maximum before doing calibration, do I need to do the same here ?
Just make sure none of the channels clip (seems to be fine already). You can adjust the whitepoint during interactive display adjustment.
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post #3433 of 3621 Old 04-30-2015, 06:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monvo View Post
Is there somewhere one can see how much of the target garmut the display covers? E.g. 97% of sRGB or something like that.
Click the "Install profile" button next to settings, or bring up the profile information window (the left pane contains an entry GAMUT_coverage(sRGB) which gives the percentage when multiplied by 100.

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post #3434 of 3621 Old 04-30-2015, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fhoech View Post
Looks like a problem with ABL. Enable white level drift compensation and use small pattern size e.g. 8% with 22-25% background level.
What is "small pattern size" and "background level" ? Sorry for newbe question, I guess it's in the testchart but can't find where :


Quote:
Originally Posted by fhoech View Post
Because that's the (only) correct setting for madVR 3D LUTs. As a side note, this has nothing to do with 0..255 / 16..235 in madVR or video driver settings.
Ok, so nothing to worry. I keep my 0-255 settings then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fhoech View Post
Just make sure none of the channels clip (seems to be fine already). You can adjust the whitepoint during interactive display adjustment.
In fact I've already have set my TV for best possible color and luminosity. But I was thinking that maybe it's better to set a big contrast and luminosity and then let the 3DLUT adjust color&luminosity. Guess I was wrong then
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post #3435 of 3621 Old 04-30-2015, 07:32 AM
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[17:36:13] WARN: Falling back to secondary solver for http://dispcalgui.hoech.net/0install/dispcalGUI.xml. Primary solver reported:

[17:36:13] WARN: Dependency graph too complex
Zero install
Why?
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post #3436 of 3621 Old 04-30-2015, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petoulachi View Post
What is "small pattern size" and "background level" ? Sorry for newbe question, I guess it's in the testchart but can't find where
No, in madTPG (the two sliders).
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post #3437 of 3621 Old 04-30-2015, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fhoech View Post
No, in madTPG (the two sliders).
Oh ok I see !! Thanks, I'll try that and post result here !
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post #3438 of 3621 Old 04-30-2015, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anta1974 View Post
[17:36:13] WARN: Falling back to secondary solver for http://dispcalgui.hoech.net/0install/dispcalGUI.xml. Primary solver reported:

[17:36:13] WARN: Dependency graph too complex
Zero install
Why?
Please use the "Select version" entry in the start menu (just click OK on the window). Should work using the normal shortcuts as well after that.

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post #3439 of 3621 Old 04-30-2015, 02:43 PM
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It seems the latest version of madVR/TPG is 0.87.21.
Is this correct?

ss
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post #3441 of 3621 Old 05-02-2015, 06:21 AM
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Hello guys, just maybe a stupid question but could it be possible to launch a screen saver a the end of the calibration?? Indeed, I would like to launch a large testchart but I can only do it during the night so I will not be present when it will be over and my plasma screen don t like static pictures
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post #3442 of 3621 Old 05-02-2015, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yokbob View Post
Hello guys, just maybe a stupid question but could it be possible to launch a screen saver a the end of the calibration?
I may be wrong, but I believe this should already work, i.e. you simply setup the screensaver and while measurements are running it will automatically be disabled. I would definitely test this if I were you though, by setting the screensaver delay to a low value (e.g. 2 minutes) and then starting a longer measurement. If it doesn't go into screen saver mode after a couple minutes, you're probably good to go. If you're using "automatic" mode of DCG 2.9.x beta make sure to set a long enough delay to allow for a gap between measurements, e.g. 10-15 minutes or so should suffice.
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post #3443 of 3621 Old 05-02-2015, 03:45 PM
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@fhoech

I ran a calibration (slow), auto test chart (11120) using DispcalGUI (2.9.1.3)
ArgyllCMS (1.7.0 final version) and madVR (87.21).

All worked well with NP.

My question is when I open up testchart builder, adding up the different points there should only be 10278 patches. However total patches says 11120, were are the extra patches coming from?

ss
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post #3444 of 3621 Old 05-02-2015, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
My question is when I open up testchart builder, adding up the different points there should only be 10278 patches. However total patches says 11120, were are the extra patches coming from?
The 154 preconditioning patches are added back in (in total it may be less than the sum of the two patchsets because duplicates from the 154 patch preconditioner are discarded).

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Quote:
Originally Posted by fhoech View Post
I may be wrong, but I believe this should already work, i.e. you simply setup the screensaver and while measurements are running it will automatically be disabled. I would definitely test this if I were you though, by setting the screensaver delay to a low value (e.g. 2 minutes) and then starting a longer measurement. If it doesn't go into screen saver mode after a couple minutes, you're probably good to go. If you're using "automatic" mode of DCG 2.9.x beta make sure to set a long enough delay to allow for a gap between measurements, e.g. 10-15 minutes or so should suffice.
Screensaver won't launch. I suspect MadTPG to disable it, so it's not on your side !
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As you may have already noticed, I've released DCG 3.0 - link to the website with download & changelog in the signature. Only minor changes from the previous beta snapshot (2.9.1.3), mainly added support for the Spyder 5 in conjunction with Argyll CMS 1.7.

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I'm still having problem with white after calibration (using a test video for white pattern, the 240-255 range blinks in a pink color ?!). After looking at the settings (now on the new 3.0 using argyII 1.7), I think the problem come from the "calibration" settings.

What am I supposed to do with whitepoint setting ? in fact I had stupidly take the screenshot values with x and y but I'm pretty sure I have to set my own value ?

Sorry for the noob question
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petoulachi View Post
I'm still having problem with white after calibration (using a test video for white pattern, the 240-255 range blinks in a pink color ?!). After looking at the settings (now on the new 3.0 using argyII 1.7), I think the problem come from the "calibration" settings.

What am I supposed to do with whitepoint setting ? in fact I had stupidly take the screenshot values with x and y but I'm pretty sure I have to set my own value ?

Sorry for the noob question
what white test did you used?
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post #3449 of 3621 Old 05-04-2015, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
what white test did you used?
a MKV called "MadVR.adjust.TV-PC.levels". It is usually used to be sure you have the complete video setup correctly set in 0-255.
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post #3450 of 3621 Old 05-04-2015, 08:10 AM
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after some googleing it looks like it is the same file as 3-white clipping from this source:
AVS HD 709 - Blu-ray & MP4 Calibration

If this is the case. what do you see with a disabled 3D LUT.

does 235 and below look normal with a active 3d LUT?

because 240+ looks pink i guess your screen is white clipping and the things you see there shouldn't be in any source. so everything is fine.

Last edited by mightyhuhn; 05-04-2015 at 08:11 AM. Reason: didn't linked the source...
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