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post #361 of 2527 Old 06-20-2013, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post

If you use "dispread -k" then you also need to use "collink -a". At least that is my understanding?

Yes ... or dispwin test.cal but as explained here, I experience still this problem if I add dispwin test.cal
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post #362 of 2527 Old 06-20-2013, 12:54 PM
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Have you tried "collink -a" instead?
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post #363 of 2527 Old 06-20-2013, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N3W813 View Post

Once a ccmx file is created, add '-X [filename].ccmx' to dispread command.
You can also install the .ccmx with oeminst and it will appear in the -y list
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post #364 of 2527 Old 06-20-2013, 08:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Good to know, thanks Gill smile.gif

My ArgyllCMS/MadVR 3DLUT Creation Workflow
My Sharp Elite Movie THX AV Mode Settings
--Aug 2011 Set, 2.2 gamma [ link ]
--Nov 2012 Set, 2.2 gamma [ link ]
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post #365 of 2527 Old 06-21-2013, 02:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post

Have you tried "collink -a" instead?

Yes ... with a poor outcome (black level is raised significantly). I go against all advice and set my GFX to 16-235 and see the result of this, later today.

Whatever I have tried with 0-255 I experience grainy picture and black level is raised (too bright)

EDIT
Quote:
I go against all advice and set my GFX to 16-235 and see the result of this, later today.

Same result ... black level is raised. I am completely lost ... I can not figure out what's going wrong!

EDIT

I can post Calman 4 before / after results, system settings, hardware and workflow if it can help?

Whatever I do, I find that black level is raised considerably.
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post #366 of 2527 Old 06-21-2013, 09:30 AM
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Is the raised black level visible in the calibration curves, or does it get introduced later? If you can see it in the curves, you might just need to fiddle with your dispcal settings. My monitor was pretty fiddly, for example, and I had to use the following settings to get a good result:
Code:
dispcal -m -v2 -qu -w 0.312713,0.329016 -g2.2 -a64 -k0 -P 0.5,0.5,2.0 -H -Ibw "[calibration file name]"
Without the "-a64" part, it would raise the output black level to something like 40/256 (although this was on an older beta of the ArgyllCMS software, so things might have changed).
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post #367 of 2527 Old 06-21-2013, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VerGreeneyes View Post

Is the raised black level visible in the calibration curves, or does it get introduced later? If you can see it in the curves, you might just need to fiddle with your dispcal settings. My monitor was pretty fiddly, for example, and I had to use the following settings to get a good result:
Code:
dispcal -m -v2 -qu -w 0.312713,0.329016 -g2.2 -a64 -k0 -P 0.5,0.5,2.0 -H -Ibw "[calibration file name]"
Without the "-a64" part, it would raise the output black level to something like 40/256 (although this was on an older beta of the ArgyllCMS software, so things might have changed).

No, it's weird. I have, from what I can see an almost perfect curve ... It is seen when I example shows black clip pattern ... and it is also very visible in a movie as Jack Reacher and The Dark Knight as I like to use as reference only. I am unfortunately preoccupied with my child this weekend ... Um and Le Man :-) so I'll probably not have time to show you the results or screenshots until after the weekend.
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post #368 of 2527 Old 06-21-2013, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSL_DK View Post

Yes ... with a poor outcome (black level is raised significantly).

If this is your workflow:

  • dispwin -c
  • dispcal.exe -d 1 -v -m -q h -X "WLEDFamily_07Feb11.ccss" -w 0.312713,0.329016 -G 2.4 -f 0 -o madVR_C.icm SAM
  • targen.exe -v -d 3 -G -s 20 -g 100 -f 2000 -c madVR_C.icm SAM
  • dispread.exe -v -d 1 -X "WLEDFamily_07Feb11.ccss" -k SAM.cal SAM
  • colprof.exe -v -a X -q h -b h SAM
  • collink.exe -v -3m -et -Et -Ib -G -ir Rec709.icm SAM.icm SAM_HD_ila.icm
  • dispwin sam.cal

I believe you are supposed to use -E for dispcal and dispread if your video card is set to full range. I know the walkthrough says otherwise but I think that is wrong. I know when I do my cal I don't include the -E switch but my video card only outputs limited range and it works properly. With your current measurements you could re-run collink with -en -Et and see if that works.
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post #369 of 2527 Old 06-21-2013, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post


I believe you are supposed to use -E for dispcal and dispread if your video card is set to full range. I know the walkthrough says otherwise but I think that is wrong. I know when I do my cal I don't include the -E switch but my video card only outputs limited range and it works properly. With your current measurements you could re-run collink with -en -Et and see if that works.

Thanks zoyd! It seems to solve my problem! But damn, it's confusing :-) I will use this workflow when I get time and tell the result of it.

  • dispwin.exe -v -d1 -c
  • dispcal.exe -v -d1 -m -qh -E -yn -X i1d3.ccss -t 6504 "-P0.49226006192,0.488372093023,3.3485915493" "-w0.312713,0.329016" -g 2.2 -o TV.icm "SA5005.p2.2"
  • targen.exe -v -d3 -G -f2500 -g128 -c TV.icm "madVR"
  • dispread.exe -v -k SA5005.p2.2.cal -E -yn -X i1d3.ccss "-P0.49226006192,0.488372093023,3.3485915493" "madVR"
  • colprof.exe -v -qh -bl -aX "madVR"
  • collink.exe -v -3m -qh -et -Et -Ib -G -ila -a SA5005.p2.2.cal Rec709.icm madVR.icm EGEN_3DLUT.icm
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post #370 of 2527 Old 06-21-2013, 01:28 PM
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BTW ... think my problems started here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1471169/madvr-argyllcms/180#post_23371018
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post #371 of 2527 Old 06-21-2013, 02:02 PM
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The key is that if nothing in the source to display chain forces 16-235 video levels you have to do it with dispread and dispcal -E switch. In my case my video card does this so I don't use that switch. In other cases you may have 0-255 out from your video card but your display does video level compression, so you also wouldn't use the -E switch in that case.
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post #372 of 2527 Old 06-21-2013, 02:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

The key is that if nothing in the source to display chain forces 16-235 video levels you have to do it with dispread and dispcal -E switch. In my case my video card does this so I don't use that switch. In other cases you may have 0-255 out from your video card but your display does video level compression, so you also wouldn't use the -E switch in that case.


My video card is outputting 0-255 and my TV is displaying 16-235. I use the -E switch on dispread and the levels I'm getting in the 3dlut (-et -Et) has no issues. confused.gif

My ArgyllCMS/MadVR 3DLUT Creation Workflow
My Sharp Elite Movie THX AV Mode Settings
--Aug 2011 Set, 2.2 gamma [ link ]
--Nov 2012 Set, 2.2 gamma [ link ]
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post #373 of 2527 Old 06-21-2013, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N3W813 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

The key is that if nothing in the source to display chain forces 16-235 video levels you have to do it with dispread and dispcal -E switch. In my case my video card does this so I don't use that switch. In other cases you may have 0-255 out from your video card but your display does video level compression, so you also wouldn't use the -E switch in that case.


My video card is outputting 0-255 and my TV is displaying 16-235. I use the -E switch on dispread and the levels I'm getting in the 3dlut (-et -Et) has no issues. confused.gif


What is madVR output set to?
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post #374 of 2527 Old 06-21-2013, 02:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

What is madVR output set to?

16-235. BTB and WTW preserved.

My ArgyllCMS/MadVR 3DLUT Creation Workflow
My Sharp Elite Movie THX AV Mode Settings
--Aug 2011 Set, 2.2 gamma [ link ]
--Nov 2012 Set, 2.2 gamma [ link ]
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post #375 of 2527 Old 06-21-2013, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N3W813 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

What is madVR output set to?

16-235. BTB and WTW preserved.

ok, that's how it should work - your display is not modifying the input if you see WTW so you are fine. Some displays take 0-255 and compress it to 16-235 thereby clipping BTB/WTW so you wouldn't want -K in that case.

quoted from scenarios.html

"If the video path needs Video Level RGB encoding but does not provide a means to do this, then you will want to include the -E flag in the colprof and dispread command lines above." [colprof should be dispcal]

In other words your video card and/or display are not compressing levels so you need the -E flag to be compatible with madVR.
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post #376 of 2527 Old 06-22-2013, 12:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

The key is that if nothing in the source to display chain forces 16-235 video levels you have to do it with dispread and dispcal -E switch. In my case my video card does this so I don't use that switch. In other cases you may have 0-255 out from your video card but your display does video level compression, so you also wouldn't use the -E switch in that case.

I have looked closely at it. My video card is set to 0-255 so is my Display and madVR. If I use dispcal -E and dispread -E and shows a pluge I am forced to raise the brightness with 3 steps on my samsung display.

If I use dispcal and dispread without -E, I had to lower the brightness with 5 steps.

Is it my display not showing real 0-255, or?
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post #377 of 2527 Old 06-22-2013, 12:40 AM
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The first thing to do is to setup black & white levels correctly. Whether your display is showing real 0-255 is something you should analyze *before* running the whole Argyll shebang, not afterwards... tongue.gif

If everything is set to 0-255 and working correctly, you should not use the -E parameter. At least's that not what the -E switch was intended for.
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post #378 of 2527 Old 06-22-2013, 03:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSL_DK View Post

I have looked closely at it. My video card is set to 0-255 so is my Display and madVR. If I use dispcal -E and dispread -E and shows a pluge I am forced to raise the brightness with 3 steps on my samsung display.

If I use dispcal and dispread without -E, I had to lower the brightness with 5 steps.

Is it my display not showing real 0-255, or?

Your display should be showing BTB/WTW in both cases, that has nothing to do with the -E switch. The -E switch is used to create the correct level spacing in the 3dLUT for madVR usage. If your source->display is 0-255 use -E.

@madshi

I don't know why you say that, Graeme explicitly states for madVR flow:
Quote:
If the video path needs Video Level RGB encoding but does not provide a means to do this, then you will want to include the -E flag in the colprof and dispread command lines above.

madVR needs the video level encoding generated by dispread -K in 0-255 systems otherwise the level spacing will be incorrect. This is the point I mentioned earlier, madVR expects the 3dLUT to be in 220 step resolution not 255 step. The -e and -E switches in collink then determine how to map the 220 step resolution to the full lut resolution.

What other reason are you thinking -E is for?
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post #379 of 2527 Old 06-22-2013, 07:33 PM
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My display is output 16-235, and my card can only output 16-235 too (Intel APU), which switch should I use?
MadVR's setting is at 0-255, don't see any obvious banding issue but probally I don't look for it hard enough
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post #380 of 2527 Old 06-22-2013, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

@madshi

I don't know why you say that, Graeme explicitly states for madVR flow:
madVR needs the video level encoding generated by dispread -K in 0-255 systems otherwise the level spacing will be incorrect. This is the point I mentioned earlier, madVR expects the 3dLUT to be in 220 step resolution not 255 step. The -e and -E switches in collink then determine how to map the 220 step resolution to the full lut resolution.

What other reason are you thinking -E is for?

There are 3 possible HTPC level configurations, when using madVR:

(1) Display wants 0-255. GPU and madVR are consequently also both set to 0-255.

This is the most recommended setup because it doesn't (shouldn't) have any banding problems, and still has all video, desktop and games with correct black/white levels. In this case test patterns need to have black at 0,0,0, obviously.

(2) Display wants 16-235. GPU is set to 16-235. madVR has to be set to 0-255.

This is not recommended, because the GPU stretches the madVR output, probably in 8bit without dithering, so banding could be introduced. However, this is not a big problem for ArgyllCMS. Argyll still needs to create test patterns with black at 0,0,0. The GPU will then stretch the test patterns from 0-255 to 16-235, so the display will get 16,16,16, although Argyll rendered 0,0,0. So the levels are correct.

(3) Display wants 16-235. GPU is set to 0-255. madVR is set to 16-235.

This is the recommended setup for best image quality if your display can't do 0-255. This setup results in banding-free madVR image quality. However, levels for desktop and games will be incorrect, because desktop and games will render black at 0,0,0, while the display expects black at 16,16,16. This is a problem for ArgyllCMS, because Argyll will create test patterns with black at 0,0,0, and the display will also receive these at 0,0,0. So basically Argyll test patterns will have wrong levels, which will screw up the whole calibration.

It is my understanding that Graeme implemented the -E switch specifically for (3), because without the -E switch Argyll test patterns would send wrong levels to the display. Basically the -E switch tells Argyll to render test patterns with black at 16,16,16 and white at 235,235,235, which Argyll never had to do before. When using VMR/EVR, you usually switch your GPU to 0-255 or 16-235. In both cases Argyll can render test patterns with black at 0,0,0, and they will still be sent to the display with the correct levels. However, due to my recommendation to use (3) if your display doesn't support 0-255, Argyll suddenly needs to render test patterns differently. Hence Graeme implemented the -E switch.

So my understanding is that -E should be used only for (3) and in no other situation. If you use the -E switch for (1), Argyll will create test patterns with black at 16,16,16 which would be incorrect!

@Graeme, please correct me if I'm wrong.
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post #381 of 2527 Old 06-23-2013, 10:32 AM
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MadVR question.

I have my configuration as follows:

Intel G1610 (DVI) -> Denon AVR (HDMI) -> LG PK550 Plasma (HDMI).

Should I tell MadVR the same? If so, which display device do I apply the profile to?
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post #382 of 2527 Old 06-23-2013, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by slosvt View Post

MadVR question.

I have my configuration as follows:

Intel G1610 (DVI) -> Denon AVR (HDMI) -> LG PK550 Plasma (HDMI).

Should I tell MadVR the same? If so, which display device do I apply the profile to?

Umm, in my case I can only apply the profile to the TV. Is your Denon receiver is set as a receiver in Madvr?
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post #383 of 2527 Old 06-23-2013, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfelicio View Post

Umm, in my case I can only apply the profile to the TV. Is your Denon receiver is set as a receiver in Madvr?

Yes, I figured it out. SIlly question actually...

I own Chromapure and have AVS 709 HD on a Blu Ray Disc (in Blu Ray format). What is the best way for me to display the patterns for Chromapure thru MPC-HC, so I can get a reading on the actual display calibration?

I currently do not own a program to play Blu Ray discs on the HTPC.
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post #384 of 2527 Old 06-23-2013, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by slosvt View Post

Yes, I figured it out. SIlly question actually...

I own Chromapure and have AVS 709 HD on a Blu Ray Disc (in Blu Ray format). What is the best way for me to display the patterns for Chromapure thru MPC-HC, so I can get a reading on the actual display calibration?

I currently do not own a program to play Blu Ray discs on the HTPC.

You can download the avs 709hd in mp4 format, and run the patterns manually, as I think chromapure still does not support the new pattern generator from madvr.
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post #385 of 2527 Old 06-23-2013, 12:57 PM
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setting my NVidia GPU to 0-255 produces 16-235 (video levels). It produces video levels regardless. Any suggestions for that. I have a Radiance in between so I know what the output is of the GPU. It is the same regardless of the setting...... EVGA GT 650ti Boost SC with latest WHQL. What is the trick to get NVidia to actually output PC levels?

Just another blank signature.
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post #386 of 2527 Old 06-23-2013, 01:03 PM
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madVR comes with a tweaker utility for that. See "madNvLevelsTweaker.exe".
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post #387 of 2527 Old 06-23-2013, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtgray View Post

setting my NVidia GPU to 0-255 produces 16-235 (video levels). It produces video levels regardless. Any suggestions for that. I have a Radiance in between so I know what the output is of the GPU. It is the same regardless of the setting...... EVGA GT 650ti Boost SC with latest WHQL. What is the trick to get NVidia to actually output PC levels?
The switch in the control panel actually does nothing if you are connected via HDMI. Fortunately there is a hack to get around it called the NVIDIA HDMI switcher tool. There is a link to it in the link in my signature below.

:edit: Madshi's tool works as well
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post #388 of 2527 Old 06-23-2013, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfelicio View Post

You can download the avs 709hd in mp4 format, and run the patterns manually, as I think chromapure still does not support the new pattern generator from madvr.

Thank you!

Unfortunately, my setup did not improve using the steps in the first post (Gray Scale patters show more color) and color did not improve much. I might give it another shot later.
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post #389 of 2527 Old 06-24-2013, 12:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

I believe you are supposed to use -E for dispcal and dispread if your video card is set to full range.
It's hard to know what the context is, but if your display is full range (o..255), then you don't use the -E switch in dispcal or dispread. If you think my tutorial says otherwise, please point out where, and I'll fix it...

An alternative to loading the calibration curves into the video card which may give you higher quality is to leave the video card linear (dispwin -c) and include the calibration curves in the 3dLUT using collink -a.
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post #390 of 2527 Old 06-24-2013, 12:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post

So my understanding is that -E should be used only for (3) and in no other situation. If you use the -E switch for (1), Argyll will create test patterns with black at 16,16,16 which would be incorrect!

@Graeme, please correct me if I'm wrong.
Looks right to me.
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