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post #4321 of 4351 Old 06-07-2016, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanderdvd View Post
My gamma tracks pretty good around 2.4 as you can see in the Chromapure result (though the 80-100 range could be a little bit better). So this makes me wonder why my low region black level (17 - 23) clipp. What do I exactly change to get 17-23 not clipp you think? Changing the black output offset slider maybe? If so, on how much % do I put that? Will a change in this setting also cover my point 2. problem with the 10IRE greyscale deviation I have?
you shouldn't use chromepure to verify the calibration. chromapure doesn't know the target that is set in displaycal.

depending on these settings black clipping could be normal and a gamma that looks strange for other programs too.
there are no logs so no one know what you are doing and what you want.
standard bt 1886 shouldn't result in black clipping.
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post #4322 of 4351 Old 06-08-2016, 05:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
you shouldn't use chromepure to verify the calibration. chromapure doesn't know the target that is set in displaycal.

depending on these settings black clipping could be normal and a gamma that looks strange for other programs too.
there are no logs so no one know what you are doing and what you want.
standard bt 1886 shouldn't result in black clipping.
What do you mean with "the target that is set in discalgui"? I m just aiming for a good Greyscale, Gamma and CMS calibration. As you can see in the CP results the Greyscale looks pretty good besides 10IRE. I did not post my colors but there too seems to be better results then the default projector settings.

You say that depending and "these settings" black clipping could be normal. What settings do I need to change to NOT have blacks clipped so bad? Because 17-23 black clipping just is not good. Put on any brightness pattern and it will clipp. This means that you loose shadow detail in the 17-23 range. I tried to change to black offset slider in the 3dlut settings of dispcalgui and did several measurements (0%, 20% and slider at 100%) but all give the same result: black clipps from 17-23.....

@fhoech : I also choose the "clipp WTW" option in the dispcalgui settings. I would have thought this would solve the problem but 230 all the way to 253 still flash while my goal is that only 230-234 flash.

And there is still the 10IRE greyscale that is way off.

What I m actually just are looking for are the perfect settings for:
1. a flat greyscale from 10-100IRE
2. a gamma curve that is around 2.4 from 10 to 100IRE
3. Colors that have a max delta of about 2-3.

Nothing more, nothing less.
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post #4323 of 4351 Old 06-08-2016, 06:12 PM
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a target gamma is for example gamma 2.4 absolute and black output offset of 30 %.

Quote:
I tried to change to black offset slider in the 3dlut settings of dispcalgui and did several measurements (0%, 20% and slider at 100%) but all give the same result: black clipps from 17-23.....
maybe the steps are there but they are to small to be seen i don't have a clue. can you seen them before calibration?

if you can't see all level before calibration open the black clipping test file in madVR go to devices -> properties -> "this display expects..." -> custom levels und change the black until you can see all levels before calibration and of cause you can try some setting on your projector too. i personally would measure the black point at the same time but that's complicated.

and there is no need for new measurements when the gamma settings for the 3D LUT is changed. it will still read the same. and more test patches are very unlikely to fix this. just create a new 3D LUT.

and of cause no one knows here if the projector is using a dynamic CR. this can make calibration nearly impossible.
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post #4324 of 4351 Old 06-13-2016, 05:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
a target gamma is for example gamma 2.4 absolute and black output offset of 30 %.



maybe the steps are there but they are to small to be seen i don't have a clue. can you seen them before calibration?

if you can't see all level before calibration open the black clipping test file in madVR go to devices -> properties -> "this display expects..." -> custom levels und change the black until you can see all levels before calibration and of cause you can try some setting on your projector too. i personally would measure the black point at the same time but that's complicated.

and there is no need for new measurements when the gamma settings for the 3D LUT is changed. it will still read the same. and more test patches are very unlikely to fix this. just create a new 3D LUT.

and of cause no one knows here if the projector is using a dynamic CR. this can make calibration nearly impossible.
The steps are clearly visible without choosing the created 3dLUT file.
I don t use a dynamic iris. JVC projectors don t have one. Also don t use any dynamic contrast features or something like that on my projector.
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post #4325 of 4351 Old 06-13-2016, 04:21 PM
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i guess only a log can help now.
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post #4326 of 4351 Old 06-14-2016, 08:00 AM
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How do I post a log here?
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post #4327 of 4351 Old 06-16-2016, 03:31 AM
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Can DisplayCal report the current refresh rate of a display? If so, how? (I couldn't find it anywhere.) I was told that it can. Thanks

@sanderdvd: if it's not too long copy it to pastebin, if it's long then zip it and upload it somewhere.

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post #4328 of 4351 Old 06-17-2016, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chros73 View Post
Can DisplayCal report the current refresh rate of a display? If so, how? (I couldn't find it anywhere.) I was told that it can. Thanks
Yes, it can on an impulse type display. It displays it somewhere along the way during the calibration process. I don't remember exactly where. It showed 60Hz on my plasma, and 96Hz for 24Hz input using Cinema Smooth.
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post #4329 of 4351 Old 06-18-2016, 03:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
Yes, it can on an impulse type display. It displays it somewhere along the way during the calibration process. I don't remember exactly where. It showed 60Hz on my plasma, and 96Hz for 24Hz input using Cinema Smooth.
So, do you say that I don't see this info because of LCD? What about OLED?
(It would be good to know where it is exactly.)
Thanks

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post #4330 of 4351 Old 06-21-2016, 06:21 AM
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It takes about 6 hours to do a profile and calibrate for my projector. I appreciate I could speed things up by reducing the number of test patterns but I'm happy to stick with the default for now.

I created a 3D LUT for madvr for Rec709 BT.1886. I'd like to create a 3D LUT to give me a flat 2.2 gamma for comparison.

Do I have to re-run 6 hours worth of measurements or is there a quicker way?

Quote:
Originally Posted by VBB View Post

Originally Posted by Sithuk
Do I have to re-do a calibrate&profile if I want to create a different gamma profile? I've created a 3D LUT for Rec709 BT.1886.

Do I have to re-run all the colorimeter measurements again if I want to try a Rec709 flat 2.2 gamma? Or is there a way to create a new 3D LUT using the previous colorimeter measurements?


VBB response:
You don't have to re-run the calibration. Go to the 3D LUT tab in DisplayCAL and change the settings to what you want.
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post #4331 of 4351 Old 06-21-2016, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
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I'd like to create a 3D LUT to give me a flat 2.2 gamma for comparison.
Easy. On the 3D LUT tab, disable "Create 3D LUT after profiling".
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post #4332 of 4351 Old 06-28-2016, 09:35 AM
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Sorry a little OT: gwgill: any particular reason that the Klein K10 isn't supported? Since the K10a is, supporting the K10 would be trivial,no?
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post #4333 of 4351 Old 06-28-2016, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodwound View Post
Sorry a little OT: gwgill: any particular reason that the Klein K10 isn't supported? Since the K10a is, supporting the K10 would be trivial,no?
From the Argyll CMS documentation:
Quote:
Reported also to work with the K-1, K-8 and K-10.

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post #4334 of 4351 Old 06-28-2016, 10:13 AM
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Displaycal won't detect my K10 (rs232 version). Any idea why? Works in Chromasurf and Calman.
I want to see if it's better than the i1disp pro/c6 at calibrating my 2 rec709-ish lcd monitors. (laptop/external). I get metameric failure (whitepoint differs a lot) even though I profile my meter with an i1pro2.

And btw, the Klein K10 is an absolute stunner with my plasma. My I1disp pro jumps all over the place in comparison.

Last edited by Bloodwound; 06-28-2016 at 10:17 AM.
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post #4335 of 4351 Old 06-28-2016, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodwound View Post
Displaycal won't detect my K10 (rs232 version).
Run
Code:
C:\Path\To\Argyll_V1.8.3\bin\dispread -?
and see if the instrument is listed. You may need to install the FTDI virtual COM port driver.

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post #4336 of 4351 Old 06-28-2016, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fhoech View Post
Run
Code:
C:\Path\To\Argyll_V1.8.3\bin\dispread -?
and see if the instrument is listed. You may need to install the FTDI virtual COM port driver.
Doesn't say anything except it does see the comport. Installing FTDI driver won't work. I'm using a USB/serial adapter which is based on the Prolific chip.

-c listno Set communication port from the following list (default 1)
1 = 'COM3'
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post #4337 of 4351 Old 06-28-2016, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodwound View Post
Doesn't say anything except it does see the comport. [...]

-c listno Set communication port from the following list (default 1)
1 = 'COM3'
Try
Code:
C:\Path\To\Argyll_V1.8.3\bin\dispcal test
And see if it can access the instrument. BTW, COM ports are filtered from DisplayCAL because they are of little use normally, but you can enable them by making a small edit to the config file. The instrument has to work on the commandline first, though.

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post #4338 of 4351 Old 06-28-2016, 11:14 AM
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This was the output.

Argyll 'V1.8.3' Build 'MSWin 64 bit' System 'Windows V10.0 SP 0'
dispcal: Error - new_disprd() failed with 'Instrument Access Failed'
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post #4339 of 4351 Old 06-28-2016, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodwound View Post
Displaycal won't detect my K10 (rs232 version). Any idea why?
I don't know about any K10's that aren't USB, certainly don' have one, and so I haven't made any allowance for supporting it. I'm not sure exactly what would be involved, but if you contact me privately, I can send you some code to test.
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post #4340 of 4351 Old 06-28-2016, 06:11 PM
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Technically speaking, all Klein are rs232. Just that the USB version has a USB/serial adapter built in. Klein use a ftdi chip, so if I had used a ftdi usb/serial adapter, it would technically be the same as a USB only Klein meter and would probably work, no?

But it shouldn't matter what usb/serial adapter you use, as long as it's seen as a (virtual) com port. Sent you a PM gwgill, I'm happy to test out some code.
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post #4341 of 4351 Old 06-30-2016, 05:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodwound View Post
Technically speaking, all Klein are rs232.
Right - but an RS232 and USB based serial instrument are quite different when it comes to automatically identifying them. Both have to be identified heuristically which can be time consuming, and given that the list of instruments which can be either is vanishingly small, it's fastest to only look for the type of instrument that has a particular interface. RS232 instruments include a lot of legacy X-Rite instruments as well as the Spectrolino etc., and they may be configured with quite low baud rates (1200), so a lot of time can be spent trying to locate and identify an instrument on a general serial port (minutes), whereas the small list of USB connected serial instruments use a small number of high baud rates, meaning that they can be tested for rapidly (seconds).
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post #4342 of 4351 Old 06-30-2016, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fhoech View Post
Try
Code:
C:\Path\To\Argyll_V1.8.3\bin\dispcal test
And see if it can access the instrument. BTW, COM ports are filtered from DisplayCAL because they are of little use normally, but you can enable them by making a small edit to the config file. The instrument has to work on the commandline first, though.
https://sourceforge.net/p/dispcalgui...read/79025325/
This is badly documented. Would you consider putting this option in the GUI itself? Initial argyllcms fix for the Klein rs232 version was detected correctly using this parameter in the dispcalgui config file. (I guess you haven't updated it to change the folder/filename to DisplayCal yet)
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post #4343 of 4351 Old 07-01-2016, 02:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodwound View Post
Would you consider putting this option in the GUI itself?
I'll add this in the next update.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodwound View Post
(I guess you haven't updated it to change the folder/filename to DisplayCal yet)
If you updated from dispcalGUI to DisplayCAL, then it'll use the existing folder. You can rename it manually (+ the config files) if you wish (you'll also have to edit the config file and change all paths from the old storage directory to the new one).

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post #4344 of 4351 Old 07-10-2016, 09:34 AM
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Hey everyone. The help and knowledge you guys have provided in this thread is invaluable and I hope to pick your brains a bit more.

I am considering purchasing either an i1Display Pro or ColorMunki Display for the (almost) sole purpose of creating a 3D LUT file for madVR. My main screen is a 55LB561V (LED, full array, no local dimming).

Q1) Of the two colorimeters mentioned, which, if either, has the potential to provide a more accurate reading for my display?
Q2) If I purchase an OLED in the future, which has the potential to provide a more accurate reading for that panel type?
Q3) I have read that both colorimeters have identical hardware but, even with 3rd party software, the ColorMunki Display is significantly slower than the i1Display Pro. How are both these statements true, and how does it impact the questions above?

If you couldn't tell, this is my first foray into the world of calibrating (other than test discs), so any help is appreciated.
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post #4345 of 4351 Old 07-10-2016, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by holdemphil View Post
Hey everyone. The help and knowledge you guys have provided in this thread is invaluable and I hope to pick your brains a bit more.

I am considering purchasing either an i1Display Pro or ColorMunki Display for the (almost) sole purpose of creating a 3D LUT file for madVR. My main screen is a 55LB561V (LED, full array, no local dimming).

Q1) Of the two colorimeters mentioned, which, if either, has the potential to provide a more accurate reading for my display?
Q2) If I purchase an OLED in the future, which has the potential to provide a more accurate reading for that panel type?
Q3) I have read that both colorimeters have identical hardware but, even with 3rd party software, the ColorMunki Display is significantly slower than the i1Display Pro. How are both these statements true, and how does it impact the questions above?

If you couldn't tell, this is my first foray into the world of calibrating (other than test discs), so any help is appreciated.
The two probes will have identical accuracy on whatever display type you plan to use them on (yes, they use the same hardware). The colormunki is firmware crippled to run slower and it is not supported by the commercial calibration software packages.
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post #4346 of 4351 Old 07-10-2016, 10:32 AM
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The two probes will have identical accuracy on whatever display type you plan to use them on (yes, they use the same hardware). The colormunki is firmware crippled to run slower and it is not supported by the commercial calibration software packages.
Thank you for explaining that it's the firmware that causes the slower measurements. I don't really fully understand what "slower measurements" mean in practice, though. Is it just a matter of X-Rite pushing the i1 to the top or does the slower measurements actually impact calibrating an OLED, for example? If it is only a matter of patience and not end result, then I will go for the cheaper ColorMunki.
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post #4347 of 4351 Old 07-10-2016, 11:53 AM
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The minimum measurement time using the i1D3 is 200 ms + overhead (patch delay) while the colormunki is 1000 ms + overhead so it can about five times faster on bright patches. In actual use the i1D3 should be run somewhat slower anyway (0.5 sec) for profiling so depending on the patch distribution you'll save some time on long profile runs, but it may be only something like 20% and not a factor of 2. So practically speaking there is not a huge time savings. The only real limitation is if you ever wanted to use one of the commercial profiling packages, but this limitation is not one of calibration accuracy - argyllcms performs as well as (if not better in some situations) than other solutions.
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post #4348 of 4351 Old 07-10-2016, 08:41 PM
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Note that because of the limited measurement rate of the Munki display, it's not practical to measure the display refresh rate and synchronize the measurements for refresh type displays. All that's practical is to do longer measurements and hope that refresh cycle errors average out.
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post #4349 of 4351 Old 07-10-2016, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwgill View Post
Note that because of the limited measurement rate of the Munki display, it's not practical to measure the display refresh rate and synchronize the measurements for refresh type displays. All that's practical is to do longer measurements and hope that refresh cycle errors average out.
This is what I had read and was slightly concerned about. Would this apply to OLED technology or only plasma/CRT? I notice X-Rite have intentionally ommited OLED from their ColorMunki Display supported panel types. Related or marketing?

So much to learn.
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