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post #4531 of 4551 Old 04-06-2017, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Light Illusion View Post
No, a 3D LUT cannot alter screen uniformity.

Steve
Thanks Steve! Any ideas on how to tackle this issue, without replacing the unit? I calibrated it based on the center of the screen using dispcalgui, but the green / purple is quite visible in some scenes.
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post #4532 of 4551 Old 04-06-2017, 01:01 PM
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No, you would need a framestore to correct such issues.
The only option is to reject the display as not being fit for purpose.



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post #4533 of 4551 Old 04-12-2017, 01:20 AM
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3dLut inconsistence

@madshi


I have a issue with 3dlut and was hopping you or someone could enlighten were I'm doing the wrong step.

I have been bothering Steve (sorry Steve) for a few days now about calibrating and generating 3dlut with lightspace. I'm at the point were the results I'm getting seam to be ok when testing the 3dlut active within lightspace but when I upload the 3dlut to madvr (after applying videoscale) I get different results. They seam subtle but I can see the difference while on screen with a 5% white patch. The patch turns cyan when active on madvr but is ok when active in lightspace.

I have upload here the 3dlut in eecolor format. With and without videoscale.

Any pointer would be appreciated.

Thank you
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post #4534 of 4551 Old 04-12-2017, 01:34 AM
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Hi adolfo,

are you doing all these tests with madTPG? How is your GPU configured? It should be set to RGB 0-255 output, with all features like "skin tone correction", "digital vibrance" etc turned off in the GPU control panel. Is that the case?

I suppose one way to debug this issue further is to use a color picker tool like this one:

http://annystudio.com/software/colorpicker/

This way you can render a specific test color through madTPG, then measure the exact RGB pixel madVR output, with your 3DLUT disabled vs enabled. Then maybe Steve can check if the rendered pixels madVR outputs are as expected or not? I'm not sure if LightSpace has a tool for that. But if we can verify that madVR treats the 3dlut correctly or not, that would make it easier to pinpoint where the problem is coming from.

FWIW, some months/years ago, a couple of users have compared the eeColor box to what madVR does with a 3dlut and found there to be no noticeable difference. There are some variables involved, though. E.g. madVR always wants 3DLUTs with video levels input and output. Furthermore there are 64 point and 65 point eeColor 3dluts. madVR expects 65 points. I remember that there were some color issues with Calman, when it created 64 point eeColor 3DLUTs for madVR. Once they switched to 65 points, the issues where gone, IIRC.
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post #4535 of 4551 Old 04-12-2017, 02:39 AM
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Hi !
Nvidia gpu 0-255, madvr 16-235, lg c6 black level low (16-235) . Same is happening with everything in 0-255 (videoscaler still applied to the lut).

Nvidia control panel video setting "with the video player settings" selected.

I assume if I had something wrong in regards to the gpu I would see them when testing the luts applied within lightspace with madvr test pattern generator, no?

The issue I'm seeing happens when I upload a lut directly from lightspace to madvr or when I export a 65 eecolor lut and import it with madvr.

If you need me to run some test please point me to them and I'll try.
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post #4536 of 4551 Old 04-12-2017, 03:00 AM
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Ok, as mentioned in my previous post, I'd suggest that you choose a test pattern color that shows the error most strongly, then use the "Color Picker" tool linked in my previous comment to log the exact RGB output that madVR and LightSpace produce. Obviously the RGB output must be different. Please note that due to dithering, the exact pixel values will vary by +-1 on RGB. So it would make sense to check multiple pixels and try to get a floating point average.

If we have the exact test pattern color, and the exact RGB output value LightSpace and madVR produce, then we can manually check the 3dlut to see if madVR has interpreted the 3dlut correctly or not.
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post #4537 of 4551 Old 04-12-2017, 03:33 AM
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well, this is just crazy :S there is a difference but like you said + or - 1 rgb but to my eyes and the i1 d3 probe madvr produces a 5% cyan patch instead of 5% white.

I done 18 random clicks on each test. no lut, active in lightspace and active in madvr.
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File Type: txt lut_active_madvr.txt (180 Bytes, 7 views)
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post #4538 of 4551 Old 04-12-2017, 06:29 AM
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Building the average of these 3 reading lists I'm getting this:

no_lut_active: 27.17, 27.11, 27.17
lut_active_lightspace: 25.33, 25.50, 25.33
lut_active_madvr: 24.22, 24.61, 24.55

These numbers don't really suggest a clearly visible color deviation, do they? I do wonder why lightspace seems to be somewhat brighter than madVR, though? How did you get those lightspace readings? I suppose lightspace has its own internal renderer?

Anyway. The big question is: Where does this cyan push come from, if the readings via "color picker" suggest a fairly neutral gray? Here are a couple ideas what you could still try:

1) Make a PrintScreen of both LightSpace and madVR's output. When displaying the PrintScreen in MS Paint, do you see the same results (meaning neutral "color picker" readings, but a cyan push with the madVR screenshot)?

2) Have you tried resetting madVR to default settings?

3) You could try creating a new image in MS Paint and manually draw a color which matches either the LightSpace or madVR color picker readings. Can you reproduce the cyan push that way?
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post #4539 of 4551 Old 04-12-2017, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adolfotregosa View Post
I have been bothering Steve (sorry Steve) for a few days now about calibrating and generating 3dlut with lightspace...
No problem at all - we are here to help.
And I'd love to know what the cause of the issue is, especially as we have never seen this before - on madVR or eeColor.
(Probably should start a new MadVR - LightSpace CMS thread so other LightSpace users may see the thread and join in...)
At the moment I am as lost and confused as you...

Steve

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post #4540 of 4551 Old 04-12-2017, 09:07 AM
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Well, the only conclusion I'm able to arrive is that on my particular TV or model, dunno, that 1 or 2 value r-g-b difference between lightspace and madvr lut is enough to create the issue at very low IRE values. crazy stuff :s

I seam to be able to mitigate the issue by applying a axis blend or grey blend filter in lightspace. I don't really know which filter would be best on this situation. Steve .... ??

But yeah, just 1 or 2 rgb difference and all hell breaks loose..

Edit- Yes, lightspace applies the lut before sending it to madvr pattern generator.

Last edited by adolfotregosa; 04-12-2017 at 09:25 AM.
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post #4541 of 4551 Old 04-12-2017, 10:57 AM
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@madshi

I managed to capture the issue perfectly.
I did what you asked. A print screen of madvr window.

You have 2 pictures attached. Each has 2 patches side by side. The left patch is the print screen of each respective lut being shown, the right one madvr window. I presume you can guess which one has the lut applied on madvr vs lightspace.
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post #4542 of 4551 Old 04-12-2017, 03:17 PM
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I don't see what kind of program/window the left side is. It doesn't look like MS Paint to me.

So you're saying if you PrintScreen the madVR window, then the madVR has a cyan push, but the screenshot of the madVR window does *not* have the cyan push? Is that what you're saying? You're not using "Overlay" mode in the madVR settings, are you?
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post #4543 of 4551 Old 04-13-2017, 12:40 AM
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The program is the default pictures viewer of windows 10.
Yes, I did a print screen of madvr window with lut active only in lightspace and then I took another print but with the lut active only in madvr.

And yes, the print screen of madvr does not have that cyan push when side-by-side has you can see on my picture. On my phone pictures the left image is the print of the currently showing patch on madvr window ( on the right )
I don't get it but that is what I get. I can only conclude that a single r g b value can make a visible difference on my tv at that low level IRE.
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Last edited by adolfotregosa; 04-13-2017 at 12:45 AM.
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post #4544 of 4551 Old 04-13-2017, 01:11 AM
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Do you have any ICC profile loaded in the OS? Or any other OS based calibration active? I'm wondering how it's possible that a PrintScreen produces different colors. That's a very unusual problem. What kind of GPU are you using? Is it a laptop with shared NVidia/Intel GPU? Or a desktop PC with only one GPU?
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post #4545 of 4551 Old 04-13-2017, 04:02 AM
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It is a laptop with a single nvidia GTX1070.

I have a custom profile active loaded only for the laptop display.
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post #4546 of 4551 Old 04-13-2017, 04:04 AM
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Does the laptop have an Intel GPU inside (aka Optimus system = Intel+NVidia GPU)?

What happens if you temporarily remove the ICC profile? Does that change anything?
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post #4547 of 4551 Old 04-13-2017, 05:50 AM
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No intel here. Only Nvidia. I have removed any trace of icc profile, rebooted and redone all measurements.

Removing the icc does not change a thing. I have done a bigger colorpicker readings and have attached them. ( dunno if that helps ). Anyhow. It is not worth losing sleep over this, i can fix it after aplying a grey blend filter from low 0.08 to high 0.12 in lightspace and from a rgb prepective it seams to lower the green value by 1 and that is enough.
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File Type: txt madvr_lut_with_filter.txt (440 Bytes, 3 views)
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post #4548 of 4551 Old 04-13-2017, 11:39 AM
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^^^^
Its because your display is a OLED, I use LightSpace default 'gray balance' setting all the time on my LG OLED.

You are smart not to try and use the 5 to15% WB controls in your OLED to correct that issue.
btw, you may want to check your brightness with a pattern. You may have to increase that setting a little, but it will not hurt anything.

Nice job.

ss

"Don't worry be happy"
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post #4549 of 4551 Old 04-13-2017, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
^^^^
Its because your display is a OLED, I use LightSpace default 'gray balance' setting all the time on my LG OLED.

You are smart not to try and use the 5 to15% WB controls in your OLED to correct that issue.
btw, you may want to check your brightness with a pattern. You may have to increase that setting a little, but it will not hurt anything.

Nice job.

ss
Hi SS! Yes my brightness is set at 51. At 52 I lose the perfect black. With gamma set at 2.2 it has a glow, not perfect black, but with lights on you can't tell the difference. So 2.4 for the perfect black with lights off and 2.2 when lights are on.
Actually on my tv I managed to get 5 10 and 15 spot on but my God, a single click and good bye lol I'm really happy with lightspace lut results now that I'm more familiar with it and also madvr does miracles. Dithering (on my case random dithering visually is best) and banding removal medium is mandatory.

Thank you Steve and Madshi!
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post #4550 of 4551 Old 04-13-2017, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fhoech View Post
This release brings HDR 3D LUT (BT.2020 & ST.2084) improvements, namely roll-off according to BT.2390 (hermite spline at the top end, black level lift similar to BT.1886 but with tapering factor at the dark end) and a simple form of tone mapping.

Example screen capture of Sony "Camp" HDR demo @ 400 cd/m2 peak luminance (TV gamut roughly Rec. 709):


How to set up DisplayCAL to create a HDR to SDR 3D LUT:

Set HDR peak luminance according to the capability of your display. I wouldn't recommend below 265 cd/m2.
Black output offset controls if there's roll-off at the dark end (0% black output offset = BT.2390), which is similar to BT.1886, or if the whole curve is offset and scaled by the black level (100% output offset).

I've also tweaked the perceptual intent gamut mapping to give better preservation of saturated colors than normally, but I would still recommend colorimetric as it should preserve saturations even better (the above screen capture is from a colorimetric 3D LUT). Note that despite colorimetric normally clipping, there's now always a form of tone mapping when SMPTE 2084 roll-off is selected.

Enjoy!
I use this way to build the 3dlut file,
Can be "convert HDR to SDR content by using an external 3DLUT" application,
Can not be "process HDR content by using an external 3DLUT" application,
Tip is "input and output format wrong", do not know where the problem?
how do it?
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post #4551 of 4551 Unread Yesterday, 09:51 PM
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I had questions regarding the calibration of Sony LED TV W800B:
  • For a bat cave dark room calibration, what should be the white level setting? 100 nits looks too bright. While playing with the backlight setting of the TV, I seemed to like the setting which gave 66 nits white level in the dark room. Can such a low white level affect the quality of calibration?
  • How should the brightness setting of the TV be adjusted before profiling?
  • I have just got a colorimeter (i1 Display Pro) and don’t have any spectrophotometer. So I cannot generate a display specific correction for the colorimeter. Still, should I be using any correction file for this TV or just stay with Auto (None)? The TV has an edge lit White LED VA Panel.
  • I wanted to do calibration for 10 bit output. I have set 10 bit output mode in the GPU settings. If I set the native display bitdepth “10 bit (or higher)” in madVR settings, will madTPG output 10 bit then?
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