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post #631 of 2671 Old 08-16-2013, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by paulkono View Post

Also, the parameters you recommended has provided excellent results for all of the monitors I've tried it on and I'm hooked!

Thank you, that's helpful feedback!
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post #632 of 2671 Old 08-17-2013, 01:03 AM
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I read Argyll's documentation and although the documentation states to use "native" values on the OSD for displays that feature more than just a brightness adjustment are there any specific recommendations for what are considered native values on a plasma? Meaning, should I change any of the default values in the OSD to bring the panel closer to its native/unprocessed state?

I'm aware of the glaringly obvious post-processor options that have to be turned off but I'm not sure how to approach RGB white balance or color temperature setting. I've google searched this but the answers seem to be each person's opinion rather than fact so I thought it best to ask you guys for the expert answer.

Thanks and I'd be delighted to perform any other tests on my led monitors which could be helpful. Honestly I don't think I've seen such a pure white on a display/monitor ever. Besides movies, even the desktop's wallpapers are starting to look like real life too. biggrin.gif
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post #633 of 2671 Old 08-19-2013, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post

Graet - thanks! (no, that's not a typo smile.gif)


Would you agree with these settings? Or is there anything you'd recommend differently? Also which configuration makes the most sense for projectors with a dynamic iris?

Thanks!

I have a Sony with dynamic iris (VW1000). I always turn the iris off before calibration (after a good calibration, anyway, I leave the iris off smile.gif..). It's the most common procedure for a projector with iris.
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post #634 of 2671 Old 08-19-2013, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulkono View Post

I read Argyll's documentation and although the documentation states to use "native" values on the OSD for displays that feature more than just a brightness adjustment are there any specific recommendations for what are considered native values on a plasma? Meaning, should I change any of the default values in the OSD to bring the panel closer to its native/unprocessed state?

Every display is different, so your question does not have a simple answer.

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Originally Posted by lukpeta View Post

I have a Sony with dynamic iris (VW1000). I always turn the iris off before calibration (after a good calibration, anyway, I leave the iris off smile.gif..). It's the most common procedure for a projector with iris.

Good to know, thanks.
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post #635 of 2671 Old 08-21-2013, 03:19 PM
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How do you automatically select "continue on to calibration" with dispcal? I don't see a param and madtpg enters exclusive mode before the menu options show up where i have to tap '7'.
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post #636 of 2671 Old 08-21-2013, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulkono View Post

How do you automatically select "continue on to calibration" with dispcal? I don't see a param and madtpg enters exclusive mode before the menu options show up where i have to tap '7'.
Not being able to see the dispcal output isn't ideal - restricting MadTPG to a window or running dispcal on a separate screen is more practical.

If you wan to skip control adjustment and go straight into the calibration, use the -m option.
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post #637 of 2671 Old 08-21-2013, 09:11 PM
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Yeah I didn't notice the issue with my desktop because it's a triple monitor setup so I always had the output on another screen but with my laptop i don't have any external screens attached so madtpg sort of locks me out of seeing anything else.
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post #638 of 2671 Old 08-22-2013, 12:29 AM
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Just connect your laptop to the LAN, then run madTPG on your laptop and run ArgyllCMS on your desktop computer. Calibration should work just fine this way.
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post #639 of 2671 Old 08-22-2013, 01:31 AM
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Tried that just now, dispcal crashes because it can't find a madtpg process. I've enabled LAN access on madtpg and multicast is open on the router as well. How does Argyll know to talk over the LAN to madtpg?
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post #640 of 2671 Old 08-22-2013, 02:13 AM
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You may also need to modify the firewall settings on both PCs to let the communication pass. Argyll loads madHcNet32.dll into its process and then asks that dll to make a connection to any madVR instance in the LAN. The whole process should be automatic, as long as nobody blocks the network communication. Maybe it is easier to test this with madVR itself. E.g. start madHcCtrl.exe on your desktop PC, then do a video playback on your laptop. If network communication works, you should be able to remote control (stop, pause, play etc) video playback on your laptop with the madVR tray icon on your desktop PC.
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post #641 of 2671 Old 08-22-2013, 01:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Updated 1st post with commands to run a videoLUT calibration and incorporate the videoLUT into the resulting 3DLUT.


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post #642 of 2671 Old 08-22-2013, 02:24 PM
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Looks good on a quick check. I personally recommend using "dispcal -qu" because it doesn't take *that* much longer and did improve the gamma response a bit with my display.
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post #643 of 2671 Old 08-22-2013, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post

Looks good on a quick check. I personally recommend using "dispcal -qu" because it doesn't take *that* much longer and did improve the gamma response a bit with my display.
The time depends a lot on the instrument. The i1display pro is fast, so you didn't notice the extra time too much. Try it with a Spyder2 and -qu may not be so acceptable.
So my advice (as always) is start with -qm, use -qh once you know the process works and if you want a more detailed calibration/profile, and experiment with -qu if you feel you must.
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post #644 of 2671 Old 08-22-2013, 11:48 PM
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Makes sense. The i1display pro is really good, though, so it might make sense for Spyder2 owners to upgrade... smile.gif
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post #645 of 2671 Old 08-23-2013, 12:38 PM
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Hey guys! COmpletely new to this world of MadVR and 3dLut.

Let me ask you something! I have used DispCal before for calibration my DellU2410 for picture editing. I like to take photos, so I need it properly calibrated. I used sRGB and Curves+Matrix, I was told this was the best choice for ICC files and correct neutrals.

Now, I also like to use my monitor to watch movies! I did the tutorial as told, and I got the files here loaded at MadVR. What I have to ask you is, when I did this tutorial, did it load a .ICC profile into my PC? Or do I only use the generated .3dlut file? Because If it does generate an ICC, I will not want to be using this for daily usage, I want to use my other one that is probably better for photos and working with Lightroom, etc, but when I watch movies I want to be able to get back to the .ICC created here. Did you get my thinking?

If I could do the same I did here, but using DispCal instead or Argyll, it would be easy to me to switch between the two .ICC, but since it's all done outside it, I don't know how to do it.

Thank you very much! Oh, another thing. I have a Calman Control Edition, can I check my Monitor's accuracy after generating the .3dlut with it?
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post #646 of 2671 Old 08-23-2013, 06:03 PM
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Houston, we have a problem/

My whites are pink after I enable the .3dlut in MadVR. What did I do wrong? I followed exactly the first page tutorial frown.gif

Edit:

Okay, found the issue. Did the procedure as madshi suggested some pages ago and no more Pink Tint.

Now, I have another strange problem. My Calman said my Red were way too low while DispCalGUI said it was OK. So I calibrated the Monitor using it's Factory Menu to Calman's reading, and now if I do a profile using DispCalGui it goes and removes all the red. I think I trust Calman more than DispCalGui, but its a very strange problem indeed.

I have so many questions... wow.... Well, let me start with this one. ICC vs .3dlut. I want my Lightroom, my games, my Firefox to be color accurate, ICC is the way to go, right? Now, for movies, I understand a .3dlut is much better.

How do you guys use Calman to measure your .3dlut? You use AVSHD and change the patterns by hand? That's a lot of work!! frown.gif

One nice thing I found out is that my DellU2410 in sRGB mode without any ICC gives me a pretty good saturation sweep. Only the greens needs more extreme adjustments.
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post #647 of 2671 Old 08-24-2013, 12:21 AM
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@Alec246, the instructions on the first page should in the meanwhile be updated to (mostly) match my recommendations. If you use this calibration approach, the 3dlut works without an ICC profile. So you would configure madVR to disable the GPU gamma ramps during playback. madVR should then automatically clear your ICC profile during and after playback restore it. So your separate ICC calibration for games, desktop and applications should still work and stay untouched. You would not be able to use games, applications and madVR on the same monitor at the same time, with all of them being color correct, though.

If Calman has a different opinion about "Red" then that could mean that either Calman has a different understanding of how calibration should be done compared to ArgyllCMS. Or maybe Calman has a different way to talk to your meter? Or maybe Calman uses a different color correction table compared to ArgyllCMS? I don't really know. Maybe Graeme can help better with that problem...
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post #648 of 2671 Old 08-24-2013, 06:35 AM
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@madshi,

Yes, thank you. It seems your guide is more fail proof. I get the idea, MadVR is intelligent enough to disable ICC during playback, and re-activates it after you close the player. Awesome feature! Really like this.

Now, I have this problem of Calman saying one thing, and DispCalGUI another... I'll get some more data to support my issue, then I can show you!
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post #649 of 2671 Old 08-24-2013, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alec246 View Post

Now, I have this problem of Calman saying one thing, and DispCalGUI another... I'll get some more data to support my issue, then I can show you!

Usually this is an issue with one software loading the videoLUT tables and the other not. I think dispcalGUI also allows you to run the test patches through the icc profile so you have to be careful that you are comparing apples to apples. btw, if you want to verify your 3DLUT (as opposed to videoLUT) you will need to run patterns through madVR and I don't know if Calman supports that. You can use HCFR or ArgyllCMS to run the patterns through madVR for verification.

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post #650 of 2671 Old 08-24-2013, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Alec246 View Post

I get the idea, MadVR is intelligent enough to disable ICC during playback, and re-activates it after you close the player. Awesome feature! Really like this.
Though technically I think what happens is that madVR disables the videoLUT, which affects everything you see, and registers the media player as color management aware, so that Windows doesn't automatically apply the ICC profile with default intent to it (this part shouldn't affect other programs running on your system).
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post #651 of 2671 Old 08-24-2013, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

Usually this is an issue with one software loading the videoLUT tables and the other not. I think dispcalGUI also allows you to run the test patches through the icc profile so you have to be careful that you are comparing apples to apples. btw, if you want to verify your 3DLUT (as opposed to videoLUT) you will need to run patterns through madVR and I don't know if Calman supports that. You can use HCFR or ArgyllCMS to run the patterns through madVR for verification.

Could you teach me how to do that? I would love to be able to run patterns through MadVR.

Here are two screenshots of Calman report of my DellU2410 without any ICC enabled. I'm using sRGB emulation mode on the monitor.


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post #652 of 2671 Old 08-24-2013, 08:30 AM
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Well, I have proof now.

I have done two calibrations. One using DispCalGUI, and another one using i1Profiler, X-Rite own profiling software. Here are the results as read by Calman

X-rite : http://imageshack.us/a/img812/6990/q1j.png

DispCalGUI : http://imageshack.us/a/img268/7518/yyhk.png

You can clearly see that DispCalGUI drops the Red, and gives me a horrible result. And this also confirms that Calman is reading correctly, because no one knows better than X-Rite how to use it's own hardware, and Calman's readings confirms the accuracy of X-rite i1Profiler, it's almost a straight line.

Any ideas? Now I don't know if doing the tutorial from this topic will give me the same Crazy Results, or it's isolated to DispCalGUI only, and Argyll CMS will give me a correct calibration. I need more time to test this.
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post #653 of 2671 Old 08-24-2013, 09:31 AM
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Well, you have used different whitepoints, so of course results will be different. Use same whitepoint (and TRC) settings, and the perceived "problem" should go away.
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post #654 of 2671 Old 08-24-2013, 10:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alec246 View Post

Houston, we have a problem/

My whites are pink after I enable the .3dlut in MadVR. What did I do wrong? I followed exactly the first page tutorial frown.gif

Edit:

Okay, found the issue. Did the procedure as madshi suggested some pages ago and no more Pink Tint.

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post

@Alec246, the instructions on the first page should in the meanwhile be updated to (mostly) match my recommendations.

That's weird. The instructions on the first page should not create a 3DLUT that is 'very' different than Madshi's commands. I use the EXACT commands on 3 of my TVs and have no issues with the 3DLUTs generated. confused.gif


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post #655 of 2671 Old 08-24-2013, 10:38 AM
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Well, you have used different whitepoints, so of course results will be different. Use same whitepoint (and TRC) settings, and the perceived "problem" should go away.

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post #656 of 2671 Old 08-24-2013, 12:51 PM
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Also, after doing the Madshi Procedure, my Black Level goes from 0.14 to 0.21. Any idea why is that?
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post #657 of 2671 Old 08-24-2013, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alec246 View Post

The colorimeter correction is different from the one used in i1 Profiler. You can not import custom ones into i1 Profiler afaik, but you can import those from i1 Profiler into dispcalGUI.
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post #658 of 2671 Old 08-24-2013, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by fhoech View Post

The colorimeter correction is different from the one used in i1 Profiler. You can not import custom ones into i1 Profiler afaik, but you can import those from i1 Profiler into dispcalGUI.

I tried without any correction, and had the same results. There's something wrong, I always used DispCalGUI without any problems! I will find out. For now I'm focused on MadVR and 3dlut however.

On another topic. Getting incorrect Red with the .3dlut generated. Maybe it's the same issue I'm having with DispCalGUI? But it's the inverse, too much on the high end of the grayscale. Here are two shots, one is without any .3dlut, the other is with the .3dlut loaded. With the .3dlut loaded, I'm not getting neutral white, I can see the reddish color when I display the White Clipping Pattern.

Any idea what might be happening here? Man... THis is more complicated than I imagined!


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post #659 of 2671 Old 08-25-2013, 04:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alec246 View Post

I tried without any correction, and had the same results. There's something wrong, I always used DispCalGUI without any problems! I will find out. For now I'm focused on MadVR and 3dlut however.
Note that you set the correction in i1 Profiler under monitor options, device and display type. The "generic" option corresponds to the "none" setting in dispcalGUI.

Generally the corrections used in CalMAN, dispcalGUI and i1 Profiler must match for any verification results to be meaningful. I see in CalMAN you're using "LCD Direct View (CCFL)". I assume this should be equivalent to "Spectral: CCFL AC EIZO HP with CORRECTION <CCFLFamily_07Feb11.ccss>" in dispcalGUI and "CCFL" in i1 Profiler, unless CalMAN has some different corrections (but I think not, otherwise you would get different results when verifying a calibration done with i1 Profiler).
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post #660 of 2671 Old 08-25-2013, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fhoech View Post

Note that you set the correction in i1 Profiler under monitor options, device and display type. The "generic" option corresponds to the "none" setting in dispcalGUI.

Generally the corrections used in CalMAN, dispcalGUI and i1 Profiler must match for any verification results to be meaningful. I see in CalMAN you're using "LCD Direct View (CCFL)". I assume this should be equivalent to "Spectral: CCFL AC EIZO HP with CORRECTION <CCFLFamily_07Feb11.ccss>" in dispcalGUI and "CCFL" in i1 Profiler, unless CalMAN has some different corrections (but I think not, otherwise you would get different results when verifying a calibration done with i1 Profiler).

You were right!! Just redone the Calibration using the Correction you mentioned and I get neutral picture now!!



The issue is, I don't know now which one gives me the correct image. Let me ask you something, these corrections were probably done to the Monitor using it's Factory Stock Preset, right? If I change the Presets, like I did, in the Factory Menu, to give me a better neutral gray in the hardware, not only using software, would this mean these corrections don't work anymore in my case? Because I think that's what's happening! I changed the Presets from the U2410, so these corrections are correcting what I have already corrected inside the Factory Menu!

If so, what should I use to give me neutral now? It seems this stock i1Profiler Correction is neutral enough! Now I have to redone the MadVR calibration to check for the results!
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