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post #1981 of 2510 Old 06-07-2014, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Francois76l View Post

Ok Icaro! Thanks for the clear explanations!

But I have a JVC X35 and a I1 Display Pro so my projector is different and my meter too. You're sure I can try your ccmx? It is not better to use the general ccss file for projector provided by X-Rite?

The name "JVC HD-990 - xxxx.CCMX" nothing changes,
of course the my .CCMX is a Colorimeter Correction Matrix,
for a i1D3 meter, as your
created on a projector JVC (UHP lamp),
therefore not usable on a TV LCD or a Plasma,
but since you too you have a JVC (although different models),
I think that at the moment, is the best choice that you have,
certainly the result is not guaranteed,
but it costs nothing to try,
you can see the results immediately,
set only the white point and controls through pattern White clipping that there are no dominant or colorization.

after if you want to be even safer,
try a quick calibration, in Dispcalgui set "Calibration speed" on Very high,
in Testchart file choose the "Extended testchart for LUT profiles" (about 30 minutes)
and you remove all doubt

Sorry for my bad English
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post #1982 of 2510 Old 06-07-2014, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Francois76l View Post

I always use a predefined 2.6 gamma in the JVC OSD to have a perfect 2.4 measured gamma after autocal.
And for the 100% white @ 6500K I start with the predefined 6000K color temp which have the 100% white near 6500k and then I adjust with the gain only.

As Icarto said, you can turn on the white compensation but the measuring time for autocal is doubling (so approximatly 7hours with an i1 display pro!)

With "White level compensation",
I spent four hours, with 3778 patches, on JVC an i1 display pro,
without "White level compensation" (only tried on the TV LCD) two hours

Sorry for my bad English
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post #1983 of 2510 Old 06-07-2014, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VerGreeneyes View Post

You can use the ICC profile that dispcalGUI produces for these applications. The 3DLUT step uses the profile to apply a specific mapping for madVR to use - applications that use the ICC profile will do this on the fly depending on the source color space of the image.

Is there any side effects having this installed or using HCFR on it's own calibrating the TV externally? As I recall reading one time long ago Argyll caused issues? You had to have it uninstalled to use one or the other?

I'm going to assume no, since I see people using both on the last page or two...
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post #1984 of 2510 Old 06-07-2014, 10:19 AM
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Did you use hcfr on your JVC 35
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post #1985 of 2510 Old 06-07-2014, 01:35 PM
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Hello Holidau121.

Yes I use ColorHCFR just for read the values after calibration.

All the calibration can be done via ArgyllCMS + DispcalGUI + Madvr (100% white @ 6500K include)

 

You have to use the same meter correction for both.

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post #1986 of 2510 Old 06-07-2014, 01:39 PM
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That's odd because from what I was reading I had to do the calibration first with hcfr.

Hmmm what exact steps did you take. I have the same projector
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post #1987 of 2510 Old 06-07-2014, 07:45 PM
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My steps:

- USER1 profil and all by default (contrast, brigthness, teint, color etc...)

- Color Temp: Perso1 and in Perso1 I selected the preset "6000K" with all by default

- Gamma: Perso1 and in Perso1 I selected the preset gamma "2.6" with all by default

- Gammut: OFF (to enlarge the CIE diagram before autocal)

 

Then I manually calibrated my 100% white at 6500K only with modifications of the 3 gains in Color Temp --> Perso1 (don't touch the offsets)

You can do it in DispcalGUI when you check the option "Interactive Display Adjustement"

 

Then you can follow the tutorial on the first page off the topic

Don't forget to add your meter calibration into DispcalGUI!

 

At the end you will have this (if you are lucky because some X35 have an offset with the primary green color on the CIE Diagram) ;)

 

 

Huge thanks for all your precious advices!

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post #1988 of 2510 Old 06-07-2014, 10:50 PM
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Hi Francois
any news ?
have you tried a new Autocal ?
smile.gif

Sorry for my bad English
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post #1989 of 2510 Old 06-08-2014, 02:37 AM
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Hello Icaro! Yes of course,the CIE diagram below is the result of my last autocal. No more teint, nothing it's just perfect! Thanks again for jour help! Really appreciate ;-)
Next step, I will maybe try your ccmx file.
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post #1990 of 2510 Old 06-08-2014, 02:48 AM
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Well great!
I am very happy smile.gif

but you can post some more graphic, with all the settings that you used ?
in madVR, vga, DispcalGui and JVC

So as to share your results with all of us,
and maybe you can help those who pass by here.

Thanks again!

Sorry for my bad English
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post #1991 of 2510 Old 06-08-2014, 02:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Francois76l View Post

My steps:
- USER1 profil and all by default (contrast, brigthness, teint, color etc...)
- Color Temp: Perso1 and in Perso1 I selected the preset "6000K" with all by default
- Gamma: Perso1 and in Perso1 I selected the preset gamma "2.6" with all by default
- Gammut: OFF (to enlarge the CIE diagram before autocal)

Then I manually calibrated my 100% white at 6500K only with modifications of the 3 gains in Color Temp --> Perso1 (don't touch the offsets)
You can do it in DispcalGUI when you check the option "Interactive Display Adjustement"

Then you can follow the tutorial on the first page off the topic
Don't forget to add your meter calibration into DispcalGUI!

At the end you will have this (if you are lucky because some X35 have an offset with the primary green color on the CIE Diagram) wink.gif




Huge thanks for all your precious advices!

Hi Francois,

can u share dE results of the validation patch set that u ran ?

What size was the patch set ? Min, Max, Avg dE ?

the CIE chart is an indication but the resolution is so small and the target points are so large it is very hard to tell how high the actual deviation from target is...

Thanks.

- Mike

calibration & profiling solutions: Lightspace, Spaceman, Calman, Argyll, ColorNavigator, basICColor
profiling & calibration workflow tools: Display Calibration Tools
meter: Klein K-10 A, i1Pro, i1D3
AVS thread: Lightspace & Custom Color Patch Set & Gamma Calibration on Panasonic 65VT60
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post #1992 of 2510 Old 06-08-2014, 03:01 AM
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Hi Francois & Icaro,

what do you guys mean by autocal?

It's a term that Calman uses.

Are you talking about that?

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post #1993 of 2510 Old 06-08-2014, 03:11 AM
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Hello TimHamburg. Autocal = Autocalibration via ArgyllCMS, DispcalGUI and Madvr ;)

 

Here are my results Iron Mike, tell my what do you think:

 

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post #1994 of 2510 Old 06-08-2014, 03:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Mike View Post

Hi Francois,

the CIE chart is an indication but the resolution is so small and the target points are so large it is very hard to tell how high the actual deviation from target is...

Thanks.

- Mike


But we must also consider that the JVC X Series (X30 X35 \ RS45 RS46),
suffer from a shortage of green,
then considering this, in my opinion, the CIE chart reached by Francois,
is the best result obtainable on this series of JVC.

Sorry for my bad English
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post #1995 of 2510 Old 06-08-2014, 03:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icaro View Post

But we must also consider that the JVC X Series (X30 X35 \ RS45 RS46),
suffer from a shortage of green,
then considering this, in my opinion, the CIE chart reached by Francois,
is the best result obtainable on this series of JVC.

I think you misunderstand my post... the CIE graph has a very low resolution.

if it were possible to zoom in on the individual points you could see in detail how far they are off from their target and the actual direction they are off...

now obviously a detailed dE report with xy values gives u exactly that information...

- M

calibration & profiling solutions: Lightspace, Spaceman, Calman, Argyll, ColorNavigator, basICColor
profiling & calibration workflow tools: Display Calibration Tools
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AVS thread: Lightspace & Custom Color Patch Set & Gamma Calibration on Panasonic 65VT60
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post #1996 of 2510 Old 06-08-2014, 03:19 AM
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It's confusing to me and maybe other Calman users.

If you don't mind, please use another term...:)

Your dicussion here seems very interesting to eveyone with a JVC.

Thanks!

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post #1997 of 2510 Old 06-08-2014, 03:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Francois76l View Post

Hello TimHamburg. Autocal = Autocalibration via ArgyllCMS, DispcalGUI and Madvr wink.gif

Here are my results Iron Mike, tell my what do you think:

Great Francois!
Excellent result smile.gif

some more info:
You only set the white point according to my directions, pre-Autocal ?
you used my matrix correction ?
what is your graphic card ?

Thanks Again!

Sorry for my bad English
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post #1998 of 2510 Old 06-08-2014, 03:28 AM
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For the moment I used the standard matrix correction delivered by x-rite.

My graphic card is an ASUS GTX 660 TI OC.

 

And yes I only parameterized my color temp to reach my 100% white at 6500K (dE 0.4) before autocal.

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post #1999 of 2510 Old 06-08-2014, 03:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Francois76l View Post

Hello TimHamburg. Autocal = Autocalibration via ArgyllCMS, DispcalGUI and Madvr wink.gif

Here are my results Iron Mike, tell my what do you think:

okay, so as I can tell from CIE chart u only ran a very small validation patch set... but the images that u posted show even less dE values...

I typically run a 1000pt validation patch set, ask Zoyd he has one for Argyll... now this (since u're just starting out) might be overkill for u, but obviously u want to know how good the PJ with the LUT performs and where areas of improvements are...

in order to assess that u need to gather as much information as u can, so since u use the i1D3 (which is quick, but not the fastest meter) maybe run a a 200-500 point validation patch set... or at least run the 96pt Color checker which also has some skin/flesh tones - I think HCFR has that set...

in addition, and this is the most important part of validation for ur specific LUT: u need to to look at lots of dedicated, professional Greyscale footage and - if u have - skin tone footage...

use the Greyscale footage to spot contamination, the very least minimum is a Greyscale gradient (do not use step patterns as they miss too many steps)...

after that, watch real world content containing lots of Greyscale, stuff like DARK CITY (1998) or THE DARK KNIGHT (2008) and see if u can spot contamination... very often dE charts don't show these errors, normal Greyscale patterns barely show it but real world footage then reveals it - and it is ****in' annoying...

the reason I'm saying this is the most important part for you: either you profiled w/o a spectro offset done on ur PJ or u used somebody else's offset and in either case this is at best a gamble... like I said before, the sw ONLY lives off the meter readings and cannot know if the meter is inaccurate...

so u could have very low dE's, picture perfect charts, but real world footage is absolutely contaminated... and def also check skin tones !!!

- M
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post #2000 of 2510 Old 06-08-2014, 03:50 AM
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Hi JVC users,

calibrating your whitepoint in the service menu (on your own resposibility:))

will give you additional brightness, that you won't have if you use JVC's preset calibration there:

 

As I posted earlier:

"How I calibrate my JVC projector (the X3):

 

1. I leave the offset controls alone.

    As far as I remember you are ruining your black level,

    if you raise the offsets (above 0).

2. I go into the service menu (which you can access on your own responsibility by

    pressing the following keys on your remote in quick succession:

    UP, DOWN, RIGHT, LEFT, OK

3. I choose 8500k or 9000k and press OK on the remote.

4. Now I project a patch of 100% White onto the screen.

5. Then I click on "100" in "View" > "Greyscale" and I take continuous measurements of that patch (press the green play button for that).

6. In the window Selected Colour you see your measurement results.

7. In the JVC Service menu I now leave red at max. and adjust green and blue (and absolutly leave red alone - I would loose brightness

    if bringing it down)

    until all 3 RGB levels are at 100% or 99% (I never got them all at 100%, which is fine)

    Tip: Raising green and blue will bring red down and lowering them will bring it up.

 

BIG advantage off having this "service menu adventure": you gain overall brightness which you'd never have

if you used JVC's settings."

 

Try it if you like.

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post #2001 of 2510 Old 06-08-2014, 03:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Francois76l View Post

For the moment I used the standard matrix correction delivered by x-rite.

This?
"ProjectorFamily_07Feb11."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Francois76l View Post

And yes I only parameterized my color temp to reach my 100% white at 6500K (dE 0.4) before autocal.

you used the controls gain +\- ?

Sorry for my bad English
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post #2002 of 2510 Old 06-08-2014, 03:55 AM
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yes and yes Icaro ;-)

 

"calibrating your whitepoint in the service menu (on your own resposibility:)) will give you additional brightness, that you won't have if you use JVC's preset calibration there"

Tim, you're sure of that?

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post #2003 of 2510 Old 06-08-2014, 04:01 AM
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Hi Francois,

I've had simlar great results on my own my X3.

BUT: After my last DispcalGUI calibraton the black level is raised, when I use the new 3dlut.

Meaning: If I project just a 0% black patch through madTPG, this patch

is brighter than the black background.

 

Could you check, if this is OK in your calibration or also not quite black?

 

(You can achieve that in HCFR when clicking on 0% in the Greyscale table (while running TPG)

and then taking continuous measurements (klick the green "play button").

 

If you could give me your results of that test, that would be a great help!

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post #2004 of 2510 Old 06-08-2014, 04:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Mike View Post



after that, watch real world content containing lots of Greyscale, stuff like DARK CITY (1998) or THE DARK KNIGHT (2008) and see if u can spot contamination... very often dE charts don't show these errors, normal Greyscale patterns barely show it but real world footage then reveals it - and it is ****in' annoying...

the reason I'm saying this is the most important part for you: either you profiled w/o a spectro offset done on ur PJ or u used somebody else's offset and in either case this is at best a gamble... like I said before, the sw ONLY lives off the meter readings and cannot know if the meter is inaccurate...

so u could have very low dE's, picture perfect charts, but real world footage is absolutely contaminated... and def also check skin tones !!!

- M


I do not know How many patches he used,
but Francois,
you could post a screen of Greyscale steps?
I'm sure it will be very good

Sorry for my bad English
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post #2005 of 2510 Old 06-08-2014, 04:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimHamburg View Post
 

Hi Francois,

I've had simlar great results on my own my X3.

BUT: After my last DispcalGUI calibraton the black level is raised, when I use the new 3dlut.

Meaning: If I project just a 0% black patch through madTPG, this patch

is brighter than the black background.

 

Could you check, if this is OK in your calibration or also not quite black?

 

(You can achieve that in HCFR when clicking on 0% in the Greyscale table (while running TPG)

and then taking continuous measurements (klick the green "play button").

 

If you could give me your results of that test, that would be a great help!


I can check tonight ;) Meaning in 9 hours!

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post #2006 of 2510 Old 06-08-2014, 04:19 AM
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Can anyone advise the correct way to target a different gamma than BT.1886?
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post #2007 of 2510 Old 06-08-2014, 04:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icaro View Post


I do not know How many patches he used,
but Francois,
you could post a screen of Greyscale steps?
I'm sure it will be very good

I used the basic testchart on page 1 for DispcalGUI.

Then on ColorHCFR, I used the basic measurement; Grayscales, Primary and secondary colors and saturations.

Waht do you mean by "you could post a screen of Greyscale steps?" ?

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post #2008 of 2510 Old 06-08-2014, 05:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Francois76l View Post

I used the basic testchart on page 1 for DispcalGUI.
Then on ColorHCFR, I used the basic measurement; Grayscales, Primary and secondary colors and saturations.
Waht do you mean by "you could post a screen of Greyscale steps?" ?

After the usual checking that indicates good behavior it's a good idea for final proofing to run some larger test set for statistics. You can do this in dispcalgui using Tools->Measurement report




This will generate a report like this. You can use any size test chart you like for this.
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post #2009 of 2510 Old 06-08-2014, 05:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Francois76l View Post

.
Waht do you mean by "you could post a screen of Greyscale steps?" ?

A screen capture of the pattern "Greyscale steps"
on the AVSHD test disc

Sorry for my bad English
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post #2010 of 2510 Old 06-08-2014, 05:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ll3d00d View Post

Can anyone advise the correct way to target a different gamma than BT.1886?

choice gamma(and the gamma you like) not bt. 1886 and don't use BT 1886 gamma mapping in the 3d lut creater

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