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post #2131 of 2514 Old 06-13-2014, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audionut11 View Post
Toggling BPC, adjusting Black output offset, and toggling the gamma tone curve between relative and absolute, produced no changes in the gamma curve.
If a change is visible at all depends on the black level. How did you verify that there was no change?

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Originally Posted by Audionut1
I then adjusted the gamma to 1.8 absolute, with produced a nice flat curve @ 1.8. I then adjusted back to 2.4 absolute, which produced a nice flat curve @ 2.4. After adjusting some black level settings (sorry I don't recall which ones exactly), it then proceeds to produce a gamma curve like the one in my measurement report again. And again, this curve cannot be adjusted back to a flat state, without adjusting the gamma value.
Sorry, but as it's not clear what you've done, it's not easy to comment.
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post #2132 of 2514 Old 06-13-2014, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fhoech View Post
If a change is visible at all depends on the black level. How did you verify that there was no change?
Adjusting each option by some amount, and running a calibration/profile/measurement report.


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Originally Posted by fhoech View Post
Sorry, but as it's not clear what you've done, it's not easy to comment.
I have tried to reproduce the issue, and have been unsuccessful. For the time being, it's a case of "dumb user" I guess.
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post #2133 of 2514 Old 06-13-2014, 05:54 PM
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just to follow up from my previous post, I re-ran dispcal without the -Ib switch, and I didn't use the madvr renderer.

Results are much better, but black level was raised slightly, even though I used -k0

Here's the log:



Is there any way I can retain my black level (which is too low to be read by my instrument) and get a proper gamma adjustment, or is this asking too much?

Here is the string I used this time:

dispcal -m -qu -J -v3 -g2.4 -f0 -k0 -A16 name.cal
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post #2134 of 2514 Old 06-14-2014, 07:53 AM
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If what I am reading, the 2.4 Relative (Ib switch) on the 3DLUT page is what you want only when using something like a I1Pro..

If using a profiled K10 and a CRT (VT60 Plasma) then Absolute is the better setting.

Is the above correct.??

ss

btw, I don't see a donate link on dispcalGUI page, is the donate link on ArgyII page cover both dispcalGUI and ArgyII. ?

Last edited by sillysally; 06-14-2014 at 08:04 AM.
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post #2135 of 2514 Old 06-14-2014, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spacediver View Post
just to follow up from my previous post, I re-ran dispcal without the -Ib switch, and I didn't use the madvr renderer.

Here is the string I used this time:

dispcal -m -qu -J -v3 -g2.4 -f0 -k0 -A16 name.cal
-qu is overkill, -qm should be fine - especially if you intend to run it through a 3dLUT. I also would always use madTPG with dithering enabled because the video card will round pattern values and dispcal does not take this into account, this might be important for getting the near black levels correct.
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post #2136 of 2514 Old 06-14-2014, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
If what I am reading, the 2.4 Relative (Ib switch) on the 3DLUT page is what you want only when using something like a I1Pro..
Ah, that's a different switch (for collink). I'm using dispcal only.

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Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
btw, I don't see a donate link on dispcalGUI page, is the donate link on ArgyII page cover both dispcalGUI and ArgyII. ?
I didn't even know there was a donate link for argyll - thanks for alerting me to this! What about for HCFR?
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post #2137 of 2514 Old 06-14-2014, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
-qu is overkill, -qm should be fine - especially if you intend to run it through a 3dLUT. I also would always use madTPG with dithering enabled because the video card will round pattern values and dispcal does not take this into account, this might be important for getting the near black levels correct.
Thanks Zoyd - I'm not running it through a 3dLUT, but I'll give -qm a try. Just for the record, I did try it with madTPG, and it gave me pretty screwy results (although it didn't raise black level). But that might've been due to my use of the -Ib swtich when using dispcal. I'll give it another go and report back.
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post #2138 of 2514 Old 06-14-2014, 10:00 AM
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yes, don't use BT.1886 with such a low black level. Also, I think -f1 is supposed to better match the natural display response near black. I'm also not sure how -A behaves when -k = 0.
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post #2139 of 2514 Old 06-14-2014, 10:07 AM
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good to know, thanks - lots of experimenting to do
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post #2140 of 2514 Old 06-14-2014, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spacediver View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
If what I am reading, the 2.4 Relative (Ib switch) on the 3DLUT page is what you want only when using something like a I1Pro..
Ah, that's a different switch (for collink). I'm using dispcal only.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
btw, I don't see a donate link on dispcalGUI page, is the donate link on ArgyII page cover both dispcalGUI and ArgyII. ?
I didn't even know there was a donate link for argyll - thanks for alerting me to this! What about for HCFR?
Yes I use dispcal only also.

Don't know about HCFR
Link for ArgyII, at bottom of the page.http://www.argyllcms.com/

ss
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post #2141 of 2514 Old 06-14-2014, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
If what I am reading, the 2.4 Relative (Ib switch) on the 3DLUT page is what you want only when using something like a I1Pro..

If using a profiled K10 and a CRT (VT60 Plasma) then Absolute is the better setting.

Is the above correct.??
no, relative vs. absolute is a matter of preference - absolute means the formula is used as-is with an exponent of 2.4 Relative means that the formula is adjusted so that the curve crosses the value you choose at 50% stimulus.
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post #2142 of 2514 Old 06-14-2014, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

no, relative vs. absolute is a matter of preference - absolute means the formula is used as-is with an exponent of 2.4 Relative means that the formula is adjusted so that the curve crosses the value you choose at 50% stimulus.
if I understand correctly, dispcal uses the -g switch to specify a relative gamma, and -G to specify absolute gamma.

btw Zoyd, just to clarify: In your previous post, when you said not to use BT.1886 (input offset), you were referring to my use of -f right? It seemed like you might have been referring to the -Ib switch, but the -Ib is just to correct for black level drift.
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post #2143 of 2514 Old 06-14-2014, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spacediver View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

no, relative vs. absolute is a matter of preference - absolute means the formula is used as-is with an exponent of 2.4 Relative means that the formula is adjusted so that the curve crosses the value you choose at 50% stimulus.
if I understand correctly, dispcal uses the -g switch to specify a relative gamma, and -G to specify absolute gamma.

btw Zoyd, just to clarify: In your previous post, when you said not to use BT.1886 (input offset), you were referring to my use of -f right? It seemed like you might have been referring to the -Ib switch, but the -Ib is just to correct for black level drift.
dispcal.exe commandline is getting mixed up with dispcalGUI in this discussion.

My reply to ss was for 3dLUT options in dispcalGUI/collink.

My reply to you was suggesting not to use a BT.1886 type (-G2.4 -f0) curve and try -g2.4 -f1
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post #2144 of 2514 Old 06-14-2014, 12:50 PM
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got it, thanks.
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post #2145 of 2514 Old 06-17-2014, 03:52 AM
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When I first tried to calibrate and profile using 100% adaptation, the profiling failed late in the process. The second time i set adaptation to 40% and the profiling succeeded. Can someone explain to me what this value exactly does?
Btw, Im using a Spyder4Pro.

Thanks in advance!
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post #2146 of 2514 Old 06-17-2014, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meulen92 View Post
When I first tried to calibrate and profile using 100% adaptation, the profiling failed late in the process. The second time i set adaptation to 40% and the profiling succeeded. Can someone explain to me what this value exactly does?
I'm not sure if you're talking about testchart generation (the targen -A option is the only adaptation parameter I can think of), but in case you are, this sets the amount of adaptation when a preconditioning profile is used. It is usually a good idea to set this to a high value (i.e. 100% or close) if a preconditioning profile was generated from measurements of the actual display and is not just some generic profile. Not sure about the failure, more info would be needed to look into that.
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post #2147 of 2514 Old 06-17-2014, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by fhoech View Post
I'm not sure if you're talking about testchart generation (the targen -A option is the only adaptation parameter I can think of), but in case you are, this sets the amount of adaptation when a preconditioning profile is used. It is usually a good idea to set this to a high value (i.e. 100% or close) if a preconditioning profile was generated from measurements of the actual display and is not just some generic profile. Not sure about the failure, more info would be needed to look into that.
Thank you for the explanation!
The error I got was: "dispread: test_crt returned error code 3".
Cant seem to find anything about this error on Google.
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post #2148 of 2514 Old 06-18-2014, 06:24 PM
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When creating a CCMX file for DispcalGUI, could I modify an existing one by pasting in the HCFR generated matrix corrections to the CCMX, save, then use it in DispcalGUI without issue? Is there a way to check the output of DispcalGUI against HCFR?

Last edited by Synnove; 06-19-2014 at 03:20 AM.
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post #2149 of 2514 Old 06-19-2014, 10:25 PM
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Will the Lumagen Radiance work with ArgyII/dispcal as a reference triplet pattern generator.??????

The two newer Dell laptop's I have both came with NVIDIA video cards.
I have been trying to profile the Klein K10-A with the Jeti 1211, see link for details.
Pitfalls of Meter Profiling

Lumagen just came out with new firmware to fix there pattern generator on the Radiance and 20/21xx models.
After updating the new firmware on my 2041 and using it as my pattern generator for profiling the K10 with the 1211, I had NP getting Klein's ChromaSurf to accept the meter readings as reference for the K10 profile.

As it stands now, I can't use ArgyIICMS to run a profile. I can't trust my video card and madVR to act as a triplet pattern generator.

ss
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post #2150 of 2514 Old 06-20-2014, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
Will the Lumagen Radiance work with ArgyII/dispcal as a reference triplet pattern
Not unless someone (i.e. the manufacturer perhaps) ships me a Lumagen Radiance to develop on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
As it stands now, I can't use ArgyIICMS to run a profile. I can't trust my video card and madVR to act as a triplet pattern generator.
Why can't you trust it ?

Last edited by gwgill; 06-20-2014 at 05:16 PM.
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post #2151 of 2514 Old 06-20-2014, 10:24 PM
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Not unless someone (i.e. the manufacturer perhaps) ships me a Lumagen Radiance to develop on.

Why can't you trust it ?
The reason, the pattern generator madTPG seems to work ok if there is no configuration problems as there seems to be when using a NVIDIA video card.
Python pattern generator will not work with the K10-A delay from Argy.

However I have just now found a work around when using madTPG. I can not use madlevelstweaker to force my NVIDIA video card to 0-255.
What I must do is use contact mode for the K10 and both mad and NVIDIA video card set at 16-235. If I use madlevelstweaker to force my video card to 0-235 to get a black background for the pattern window, that the K10 needs if used in off-screen mode. My measured Luminance were off.

Also using ChromaSurf and its pattern generator for both the K10 and Jeti 1211 when profiling, I couldn't get good readings for WRGB. I had to use the Lumagen (new fix for pattern windows) for my WRGB reads. That tells me that using my NVIDIA video card and a software program like Klein's ChromaSurf can't be trusted.

My point is, now that it seems Lumagen has fixed there pattern generator. Why not take the above out of the equation for many of us.

So if Jim from Lumagen is reading this, why not send Mr Gill a Mini 3D, I will pay the shipping charges.

ss
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post #2152 of 2514 Old 06-20-2014, 10:44 PM
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Klein CS can be "trusted" - it works just fine and that includes the internal pattern generator. You just need to set up your color pipeline correctly, and that includes your GPU....

obviously, using Klein CS all readings (spectro & K10) should come from the same pattern generator...

- M

calibration & profiling solutions: Lightspace, Spaceman, Calman, Argyll, ColorNavigator, basICColor
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post #2153 of 2514 Old 06-21-2014, 01:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Mike View Post
Klein CS can be "trusted" - it works just fine and that includes the internal pcolor pipeline correctattern generator. You just need to set up your color pipeline correctly, and that includes your GPU....

obviously, using Klein CS all readings (spectro & K10) should come from the same pattern generator...

- M
Mike that is easy to say, but unless you have done as much testing as I have with ArgyII and supporting cast that is not the case.

btw, I am not just talking about any spectro or any display. I am talking about the Jeti 1211 and then combined with a very hard display like the VT60 for the Jeti to get a fix on the sync of that display.

ss

Below is a 490 point ArgyII report that I used madVR for my pattern generator, after I got the Klein profiled using the 2041. I don't think this report would be nearly as good if I didn't
have "color pipeline correct".

The attached are Klein's reports on the profiles, note the time stamp. That is when I switched from my video card to my 2041 as a pattern generator.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Klein Profile Argy.jpg (254.7 KB, 15 views)
Attached Files
File Type: zip Klein Profiles.zip (1.4 KB, 1 views)

Last edited by sillysally; 06-21-2014 at 01:58 AM.
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post #2154 of 2514 Old 06-21-2014, 01:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
Mike that is easy to say, but unless you have done as much testing as I have with ArgyII and supporting cast that is not the case.

btw, I am not just talking about any spectro or any display. I am talking about the Jeti 1211 and then combined with a very hard display like the VT60 for the Jeti to get a fix on the sync of that display.

ss

Below is a 490 point ArgyII report that I used madVT as my pattern genorator, after I got the Klein profiled using the 2041
The attached are Klein's reports on the profiles, note the time stamp. That is when I switched from my video card to my 2041 as a pattern generator.
like I said u need to properly configure the video chain, it has nothing to do with CS... CS cannot know if ur video chain is correct or not - it simply uses ur graphic card IF u use the internal pattern generator... it cannot configure ur graphic card, you need to do that (if u can).

simply use CS only with the Lumagen now that it's been fixed ;-)

calibration & profiling solutions: Lightspace, Spaceman, Calman, Argyll, ColorNavigator, basICColor
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post #2155 of 2514 Old 06-21-2014, 02:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Mike View Post
like I said u need to properly configure the video chain, it has nothing to do with CS... CS cannot know if ur video chain is correct or not - it simply uses ur graphic card IF u use the internal pattern generator... it cannot configure ur graphic card, you need to do that (if u can).

simply use CS only with the Lumagen now that it's been fixed ;-)
This has nothing to do with CS as a program, it has to do with the video card and what can effect it. That's my latest rant.
Go back and read what I am saying about madVR and the problems that it can cause.
I think having a correct color pipeline is a given. And of course one would use the same patch generator for both meters when profiling.

Yes that is my point about the Lumagen, it seems to be fixed and of course I plan to use it for profiling my meters. I just would like to see ArgyII support it, and that also was one of my points. That why I am willing to put my money where my mouth is.

ss

Last edited by sillysally; 06-21-2014 at 02:17 AM.
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post #2156 of 2514 Old 06-21-2014, 02:25 AM
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yes, the video card setup is your problem - it has nothing to do with CS....

so with your current problems, does that mean that your initial Argyll results were flawed, or was that done with a different setup ?

calibration & profiling solutions: Lightspace, Spaceman, Calman, Argyll, ColorNavigator, basICColor
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post #2157 of 2514 Old 06-21-2014, 02:30 AM
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You could always use a Decklink mini monitor and Davinci Resolve. DispcalGUI will interface with it and by using Decklink card you'll get a pure untouched output from Resolve in 8 or 10bit HD over HDMI*. Since Resolve is a color grading software (that is free, thankfully), you can load up any patches or clips you like and DispcalGUI can control it's output for profiling.

*Limited to YUV 4:2:2, but that shouldn't matter when profiling.
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post #2158 of 2514 Old 06-21-2014, 02:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Mike View Post
yes, the video card setup is your problem - it has nothing to do with CS....

so with your current problems, does that mean that your initial Argyll results were flawed, or was that done with a different setup ?
My initial results are correct, I was using a profile I had done before installing madVR. I also used Python as my pattern generator in a different PC. Also I used the first beta of dispcal for the K10 that didn't change the window patterns as quickly as the latest version of dispcal does when using Python.

Like I said read my past post's about trying to get madVR working when using the K10 off-screen. And if you read my current post about madVR and my work around using madVR there is np, except if you want to use CS internal pattern generator with madVR on the same PC.

ss
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post #2159 of 2514 Old 06-21-2014, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
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Not unless someone (i.e. the manufacturer perhaps) ships me a Lumagen Radiance to develop on.
We can loan you a Radiance for testing. Please email me at support@lumagen.com and we can arrange it.
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post #2160 of 2514 Old 06-21-2014, 03:25 PM
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[EDIT] Deleted duplicate post

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