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post #2161 of 2855 Old 06-21-2014, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrp View Post
We can loan you a Radiance for testing. Please email me at support@lumagen.com and we can arrange it.
Thank You Jim.

I couldn't be happier with the meter profile I got using my Radiance 2041 as a pattern generator with your new firmware update.
Ran a 9270 point patch set I made using ArgyII tools for this LUT. Just checked the results of that LUT using the 490 point measurement report. Avg dE .59, high dE 2.04.

ss
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post #2162 of 2855 Old 06-22-2014, 04:01 AM
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hope someone can answer two questions


In the video chain my tv only support 16-235 I set the gpu to 0-255 and madvr to 16-235
I noticed that changing the gpu to 16-235 has no effect on black level and I do not seem to notice any differences, so it is really important to keep the gpu 0-255?


There's a way in dispcalgui to leave the black crushed how i intentionally set?


Thanks

Last edited by steddye; 06-22-2014 at 04:08 AM.
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post #2163 of 2855 Old 06-22-2014, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Synnove View Post
Since Resolve is a color grading software (that is free, thankfully), you can load up any patches or clips you like and DispcalGUI can control it's output for profiling.
Using a pre-set sequence simply won't work for ArgyllCMS dispcal, since each test color depends on the previous reading. It's theoretically possible to do a profile with a pre-set sequence, but it's not a natural fit for synchronizing the patch display and measurements. Having dispcal & dispread control proceedings is the optimal approach.
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post #2164 of 2855 Old 06-22-2014, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwgill View Post
Using a pre-set sequence simply won't work for ArgyllCMS dispcal, since each test color depends on the previous reading. It's theoretically possible to do a profile with a pre-set sequence, but it's not a natural fit for synchronizing the patch display and measurements. Having dispcal & dispread control proceedings is the optimal approach.
DispcalGUI can interface with Resolve to control the patch output so one doesn't have to use a preset sequence.
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post #2165 of 2855 Old 06-24-2014, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrp View Post
We can loan you a Radiance for testing. Please email me at support@lumagen.com and we can arrange it.
Great Jim!
Many Thanks!

Sorry for my bad English
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post #2166 of 2855 Old 06-25-2014, 11:55 AM
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Question. I just started following the guide and when I go to calibrate and profile I get Dispcal.Exe has stoped working.


Running windows 7..


Any suggestions
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post #2167 of 2855 Old 06-25-2014, 02:47 PM
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Tried reinstalling and still no luck even in windows mode administrator no luck.
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post #2168 of 2855 Old 06-26-2014, 04:38 AM
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After some more messing around with it still no luck ....

Anyone else ever have this problem.

My meter i1 display pro is being recognized in the program so I'm not sure where the problem would be
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post #2169 of 2855 Old 06-26-2014, 08:09 AM
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post #2170 of 2855 Old 06-26-2014, 08:25 AM
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Ok I will this weekend but I am sure it's up to date I will double check
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post #2171 of 2855 Old 06-26-2014, 03:00 PM
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Ok about to give
It a try now
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post #2172 of 2855 Old 06-26-2014, 03:09 PM
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Ok so a no go...


Here is the log from Dispcalgui
Attached Files
File Type: txt dispcal.exe not working.txt (647 Bytes, 19 views)
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post #2173 of 2855 Old 06-26-2014, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holiday121 View Post
Ok so a no go...
You'll get better diagnostics (ie. you can use the -D option) and help if you run dispcal.exe manually.
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post #2174 of 2855 Old 06-26-2014, 05:48 PM
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so locate the exe file and type in what command?
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post #2175 of 2855 Old 06-27-2014, 01:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holiday121 View Post
so locate the exe file and type in what command?
The very file you posted above has the command line in it. But, beyond that, ArgyllCMS has a fair amount of documentration : - start here.
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post #2176 of 2855 Old 06-27-2014, 03:20 AM
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So try dispcal.exe -D ?
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post #2177 of 2855 Old 06-27-2014, 03:53 AM
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use the same command line as in the text file, but include the -D switch

http://www.argyllcms.com/doc/dispcal.html#D

for example, for full reporting, use -D9
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post #2178 of 2855 Old 06-28-2014, 01:05 PM
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Hello there, is there any way to correct color and saturation with dispcalGUI? I am new to this and tried 5 times to follow first post settings and steps, but result was bad in color and saturation - while gamma and luminance got better. Can you explain me what i am doing wrong? Chart looks something like that, maybe wider. How can i fix it? Thanks.



Last edited by tiesakaipmelas; 06-30-2014 at 12:02 AM.
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post #2179 of 2855 Old 06-28-2014, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
The reason, the pattern generator madTPG seems to work ok if there is no configuration problems as there seems to be when using a NVIDIA video card.
Python pattern generator will not work with the K10-A delay from Argy.

However I have just now found a work around when using madTPG. I can not use madlevelstweaker to force my NVIDIA video card to 0-255.
What I must do is use contact mode for the K10 and both mad and NVIDIA video card set at 16-235. If I use madlevelstweaker to force my video card to 0-235 to get a black background for the pattern window, that the K10 needs if used in off-screen mode. My measured Luminance were off.
If you set both madVR + NVidia GPU to 16-235, you'll get incorrect results (double expansion). You need to set either the NVidia GPU or madVR to 16-235, the other one to 0-255. The reason for that is the following:

Windows itself always renders in and outputs 0-255. If you set the GPU control panel to 16-235 output, the GPU will take the Windows output and stretch it from 0-255 to 16-235 behind Windows' back. This will produce correct black & white levels. For this to work madVR has to render black to 0 and white to 255, because the NVidia driver will stretch 0-255 to 16-235 behind madVR's and Windows's back afterwards.

If you force NVidia to 0-255 output (by using the madLevelsTweaker), the NVidia driver will leave the Windows/madVR output untouched. In this case you can switch between 0-255 and 16-235 in madVR and you'll get the appropriate results sent to your TV. If you have your TV set to 16-235 input, in this configuration you'd set madVR to 16-235.

I do recommend to use the madLevelsTweaker, because letting the GPU stretch the data behind madVR's/Windows' back will probably slightly hurt image quality and measurement accuracy, because the GPU will probably do the stretching in 8bit without dithering, which will introduce rounding errors / banding.

Understood?

P.S: Overlay mode (in madVR) can sometimes slightly complicate things, because the GPU driver might treat it differently compared to other modes. But Overlay mode is disabled by default in madVR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
Also using ChromaSurf and its pattern generator for both the K10 and Jeti 1211 when profiling, I couldn't get good readings for WRGB. I had to use the Lumagen (new fix for pattern windows) for my WRGB reads. That tells me that using my NVIDIA video card and a software program like Klein's ChromaSurf can't be trusted.
You can trust a properly configured HTPC with madVR/madTPG. Can't say anything about ChromaSurf.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
My point is, now that it seems Lumagen has fixed there pattern generator. Why not take the above out of the equation for many of us.
If you are an HTPC user, you should take extra care to configure your HTPC correctly. If you've done so, there's no need to use a Lumagen as a test pattern source instead of the HTPC. If you're not an HTPC user and if you already own a Lumagen then of course using the Lumagen as a test pattern source is the logical choice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steddye View Post
In the video chain my tv only support 16-235 I set the gpu to 0-255 and madvr to 16-235
I noticed that changing the gpu to 16-235 has no effect on black level and I do not seem to notice any differences, so it is really important to keep the gpu 0-255?
How are you changing the GPU to 16-235? Are you an AMD user? Or do you use madLevelsTweaker? And after changing the GPU to 16-235, have you changed madVR to 0-255? Changing both to 16-235 should result in a double stretched output.
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post #2180 of 2855 Old 06-28-2014, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
If you set both madVR + NVidia GPU to 16-235, you'll get incorrect results (double expansion). You need to set either the NVidia GPU or madVR to 16-235, the other one to 0-255. The reason for that is the following:

Windows itself always renders in and outputs 0-255. If you set the GPU control panel to 16-235 output, the GPU will take the Windows output and stretch it from 0-255 to 16-235 behind Windows' back. This will produce correct black & white levels. For this to work madVR has to render black to 0 and white to 255, because the NVidia driver will stretch 0-255 to 16-235 behind madVR's and Windows's back afterwards.

If you force NVidia to 0-255 output (by using the madLevelsTweaker), the NVidia driver will leave the Windows/madVR output untouched. In this case you can switch between 0-255 and 16-235 in madVR and you'll get the appropriate results sent to your TV. If you have your TV set to 16-235 input, in this configuration you'd set madVR to 16-235.

I do recommend to use the madLevelsTweaker, because letting the GPU stretch the data behind madVR's/Windows' back will probably slightly hurt image quality and measurement accuracy, because the GPU will probably do the stretching in 8bit without dithering, which will introduce rounding errors / banding.

Understood?

P.S: Overlay mode (in madVR) can sometimes slightly complicate things, because the GPU driver might treat it differently compared to other modes. But Overlay mode is disabled by default in madVR.



You can trust a properly configured HTPC with madVR/madTPG. Can't say anything about ChromaSurf.



If you are an HTPC user, you should take extra care to configure your HTPC correctly. If you've done so, there's no need to use a Lumagen as a test pattern source instead of the HTPC. If you're not an HTPC user and if you already own a Lumagen then of course using the Lumagen as a test pattern source is the logical choice.

<Snip>
Thanks for clearing that up. Yes I understand.

I don't have a HTPC system. I use my Oppo and eecolor for video playback for my display.
I can see how ArgyIICMS along with madVR would eliminate the need for eecolor and a Blu Ray player and turn my PC into a HTPC. Looks like when I stopped visiting Doom9 many years ago was a mistake.

ss
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post #2181 of 2855 Old 06-28-2014, 05:10 PM
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ss,


you do know that you can use your PC if setup correctly as per madshi's instructions as a pattern generator, which will be as good as the box solutions.
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post #2182 of 2855 Old 06-28-2014, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
If you set both madVR + NVidia GPU to 16-235, you'll get incorrect results (double expansion). You need to set either the NVidia GPU or madVR to 16-235, the other one to 0-255. The reason for that is the following:

Windows itself always renders in and outputs 0-255. If you set the GPU control panel to 16-235 output, the GPU will take the Windows output and stretch it from 0-255 to 16-235 behind Windows' back. This will produce correct black & white levels. For this to work madVR has to render black to 0 and white to 255, because the NVidia driver will stretch 0-255 to 16-235 behind madVR's and Windows's back afterwards.

If you force NVidia to 0-255 output (by using the madLevelsTweaker), the NVidia driver will leave the Windows/madVR output untouched. In this case you can switch between 0-255 and 16-235 in madVR and you'll get the appropriate results sent to your TV. If you have your TV set to 16-235 input, in this configuration you'd set madVR to 16-235.

I do recommend to use the madLevelsTweaker, because letting the GPU stretch the data behind madVR's/Windows' back will probably slightly hurt image quality and measurement accuracy, because the GPU will probably do the stretching in 8bit without dithering, which will introduce rounding errors / banding.

Understood?

P.S: Overlay mode (in madVR) can sometimes slightly complicate things, because the GPU driver might treat it differently compared to other modes. But Overlay mode is disabled by default in madVR.



You can trust a properly configured HTPC with madVR/madTPG. Can't say anything about ChromaSurf.



If you are an HTPC user, you should take extra care to configure your HTPC correctly. If you've done so, there's no need to use a Lumagen as a test pattern source instead of the HTPC. If you're not an HTPC user and if you already own a Lumagen then of course using the Lumagen as a test pattern source is the logical choice.



How are you changing the GPU to 16-235? Are you an AMD user? Or do you use madLevelsTweaker? And after changing the GPU to 16-235, have you changed madVR to 0-255? Changing both to 16-235 should result in a double stretched output.



I'm an nvidia user , madLevelsTweaker has the force pc level checked and apply greyed out ; so if i understand correctly the gpu is already forced to output 0-255 and chanching to 16-235 in the nvidia control panel has no effect ?
Next week i will add a lumagen to the chain, is correct to leave gpu forced 0-255 madvr 16-235 lumagen output YCbCr 422 (tv support 16-235 only) .Thanks for the patience.
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post #2183 of 2855 Old 06-28-2014, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Hitman- View Post
ss,


you do know that you can use your PC if setup correctly as per madshi's instructions as a pattern generator, which will be as good as the box solutions.
Yes that is what I use, madTPG as a pattern generator for ArgyII.
As madshi/zoud points out, the use of at least a 20xx or 21xx is a good thing. However ArgyII doesn't support the Lumagen as yet.

ss
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post #2184 of 2855 Old 06-29-2014, 01:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
I don't have a HTPC system. I use my Oppo and eecolor for video playback for my display.
I can see how ArgyIICMS along with madVR would eliminate the need for eecolor and a Blu Ray player and turn my PC into a HTPC. Looks like when I stopped visiting Doom9 many years ago was a mistake.
Well, HTPCs are still not as easy/comfortable to setup and use as standalone players. So I quite understand if some/many people prefer to use standalone consumer electronics instead of HTPCs. That said, with a well setup HTPC with a good GPU and the right software you can probably beat even high-end Blu-Ray players in image quality. But then, the software required to do that currently doesn't support Blu-Ray menus. So there's no "have it all" solution yet...

Quote:
Originally Posted by steddye View Post
I'm an nvidia user , madLevelsTweaker has the force pc level checked and apply greyed out ; so if i understand correctly the gpu is already forced to output 0-255 and chanching to 16-235 in the nvidia control panel has no effect ?
Next week i will add a lumagen to the chain, is correct to leave gpu forced 0-255 madvr 16-235 lumagen output YCbCr 422 (tv support 16-235 only) .Thanks for the patience.
The 16-235 vs 0-255 option in the NVidia GPU control panel shouldn't have any effect on the Windows desktop, games or madVR. The purpose of this setting is probably to affect the OS video renderers (VMR, EVR), but I'm not sure if even that works reliably. When using madVR, AFAIK this option has no meaning.
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post #2185 of 2855 Old 06-29-2014, 05:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
If you set both madVR + NVidia GPU to 16-235, you'll get incorrect results (double expansion). You need to set either the NVidia GPU or madVR to 16-235, the other one to 0-255. The reason for that is the following:

Windows itself always renders in and outputs 0-255. If you set the GPU control panel to 16-235 output, the GPU will take the Windows output and stretch it from 0-255 to 16-235 behind Windows' back. This will produce correct black & white levels. For this to work madVR has to render black to 0 and white to 255, because the NVidia driver will stretch 0-255 to 16-235 behind madVR's and Windows's back afterwards.

If you force NVidia to 0-255 output (by using the madLevelsTweaker), the NVidia driver will leave the Windows/madVR output untouched. In this case you can switch between 0-255 and 16-235 in madVR and you'll get the appropriate results sent to your TV. If you have your TV set to 16-235 input, in this configuration you'd set madVR to 16-235.

I do recommend to use the madLevelsTweaker, because letting the GPU stretch the data behind madVR's/Windows' back will probably slightly hurt image quality and measurement accuracy, because the GPU will probably do the stretching in 8bit without dithering, which will introduce rounding errors / banding.

Understood?

P.S: Overlay mode (in madVR) can sometimes slightly complicate things, because the GPU driver might treat it differently compared to other modes. But Overlay mode is disabled by default in madVR.



You can trust a properly configured HTPC with madVR/madTPG. Can't say anything about ChromaSurf.



If you are an HTPC user, you should take extra care to configure your HTPC correctly. If you've done so, there's no need to use a Lumagen as a test pattern source instead of the HTPC. If you're not an HTPC user and if you already own a Lumagen then of course using the Lumagen as a test pattern source is the logical choice.



How are you changing the GPU to 16-235? Are you an AMD user? Or do you use madLevelsTweaker? And after changing the GPU to 16-235, have you changed madVR to 0-255? Changing both to 16-235 should result in a double stretched output.



So just to be 100% clear for my situation here:
HTPC (with madLevelsTweaker reenforced 0-255) to a JVC projector in Enhanced HDMI mode (0-255).
In this combination I put madvr's "the display expects the following RGB output levels" in "PC levels (0-255)"?

It's just that at the moment I cannot use my newly created 3dluts (created with Argyll/Dispcal/madTPG).
When activating the 3dluts in madvr I get greys below RGB 16 (Horror!!).
--->See next post. It looks the same here.
If deactivating 3dluts in madvr or even using 3dluts from half a year ago, everything is OK.
I don't know what to do....

The .icm files (per Florians analysis) showed that RGB 0 0 0 to RGB 5 5 5 were all zero.
What's going on??

Last edited by TimHamburg; 06-29-2014 at 07:15 AM.
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post #2186 of 2855 Old 06-29-2014, 05:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
Any ideas why the 3D LUT I attempted on my RP-CRT is raising the black levels? I did not enable black point correction.

Here are some pictures with the camera's exposure locked.

With no 3D LUT levels below 16 are not visible. (I realize you can't really see the bars over 16 in this picture, but they are there)



3D LUT with no gamma/tone correction:



3D LUT with 1886 absolute 2.4:



3D LUT with 1886 relative 2.4:



HCFR measures the contrast of the display around 15,000:1. 100% white is right about 120cd/m^2. I followed the procedure in the first post except I did not precondition the tone curve to 1886 absolute 2.4. I left it at Rec.709 because I was not intending to apply any gamma/tone correction in the 3D LUT, but rather rely on the displays natural gamma. Also, the white level did not change pre/post 3D LUT. It displays up to 235 and stops. FWIW, this is not my first 3D LUT. I've made several before for a LCD with a ~3,000:1 contrast ratio and it did not raise the black level or start displaying bars that weren't visible before.
Hi Stereodude,
do you still have theses problems?
I still have!
I had some help from Florian Hoech (on the sourceforge Dispcal forum): he figured out that the .icm files had RGB 0 0 0 to RGB 5 5 5 all at zero.
Did you find any solution for yourself?
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post #2187 of 2855 Old 06-29-2014, 06:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimHamburg View Post
Hi Stereodude,
do you still have theses problems?
I still have!
I had some help from Florian Hoech (on the sourceforge Dispcal forum): he figured out that the .icm files had RGB 0 0 0 to RGB 5 5 5 all at zero.
Did you find any solution for yourself?
Yes, I still have the problem. I haven't bothered to do any further experimenting. I've gotten busy with other things. I'm currently running without a 3D LUT. Hopefully this week I will have some time to dig into it more.

For starters, I need to try a 3D LUT I made with an older version of DispCalGUI for a LCD and see what that does.
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post #2188 of 2855 Old 06-29-2014, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
Yes, I still have the problem. I haven't bothered to do any further experimenting. I've gotten busy with other things. I'm currently running without a 3D LUT. Hopefully this week I will have some time to dig into it more.

For starters, I need to try a 3D LUT I made with an older version of DispCalGUI for a LCD and see what that does.
When you have time you might have a look at this thread I opened up in the DispcalGUI forum (Sourceforge):
https://sourceforge.net/p/dispcalgui...5f5ab4c5/#997d

Florian Hoech (the DispcalGUI developer) is helping me there.

I just tried the whole procedure on my LG monitor ---> no problems - RGB 16 is black!
So at the moment a hypothesis of mine at the moment is that dispcal (or any other instance) is rejecting the readings of my JVC projectors RGB 0 0 0 to RGB 5 5 5 and putting them all to Zero (which it's actually doing as seen in the .icm files).
The JVCs blacks are very deep.
I remember you having problems using a CRT --> even deeper blacks.
We'll figure this out!!!
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post #2189 of 2855 Old 06-29-2014, 07:44 AM
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Hi everyone,


Although my issue is related to a 3DLUT generated by Calman, Zoyd suggested I post here as it's monitored by Madshi, so here goes:


I'm trying to get a 3D LUT for MadVR generated by Calman Ultimate using the cube generator set to eecolor / 64 points format (that's the only output format available when selecting the eecolor as an output format in Calman), but when I try to import it in MadVR (in the rec-709 section, after selecting eecolor 3D LUT format) I get an incorrect file format error.

Here is a link to the actual LUT if you'd like to check what might be wrong:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7pv41fq3fe...0points%29.zip

Here is the link to the Spectracal thread where I started my tests and give more details: http://www.spectracal.com/forum/view...p=35159#p35159


Zoyd suggests it might be due to MadVR expecting a 65 points LUT while Calman generates a 64 points one for the eecolor.


The eecolor accepts both but it looks like MadVR only accepts 65, if that is the issue.


I remember reading something about this 64 vs 65 issue with the eecolor somewhere, but I can't find it.


[EDIT: this is thread I was thinking about: eeColor Processor - CalMAN - 3D LUTs, see from post 5]

Last edited by Manni01; 06-29-2014 at 07:56 AM.
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post #2190 of 2855 Old 06-29-2014, 08:33 AM
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Yep, madVR currently only accepts 65 point 3dluts. I guess adding support for 64 point 3dluts shouldn't be too hard to do. Maybe you could add it to the madVR tracker, so I can look at it when I find some time?

http://madVR.bugs.madshi.net
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