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Old 07-02-2014, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
@madshi: not sure if you're notified or not automatically, I've added links in the bug report to a few posts which might make it pretty simple for you to support the 65 points LUT format, please take a look when you have a minute.

Hello Manni, do you mean that you asked to support the 64p LUT eeColor format, 65p is currently supported.

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Old 07-02-2014, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hello Manni, do you mean that you asked to support the 64p LUT eeColor format, 65p is currently supported.
Yes Ted, thanks for the correction, that's what I meant
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Old 07-02-2014, 11:03 PM
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Can anyone elaborate on the black point compensation setting? My understanding is that it should only be turned off if your monitor can actually display 0-level blacks (OLED) because what BPC actually does is remap absolute blacks to the lowest black level that your display can actually achieve, correct?
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Old 07-02-2014, 11:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megalith View Post
My understanding is that it should only be turned off if your monitor can actually display 0-level blacks (OLED)
When using BT.1886, BPC should always be turned off (which it is by default) because BT.1886 already takes care of black level mapping.
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Old 07-03-2014, 04:56 AM
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Hi guys,


I need some newbie help. First let me introduce and tell you what I m looking for and what my setup is:
I own a dedicated HTPC and I use this for all my 2D Blu-Ray playback. I don t use Blu-Ray menu and I cannot even use them even if I wanted to because the player I use is MPC-BE. I use madVR as output renderer. madVR is set to PC levels (0-255). I use LAV filters and LAV video is set to RGB output UNTOUCHED. My GPU is a AMD 280x and the Pixel Format setting is set on 'RGB 4:4:4 Pixel Format PC Standard (Full RGB)' My display device is a JVC DLA-RS49 projector and my HDMI settings is set on ' Enhanced'.


The meter I use for Greyscale and Gamma calibration (which I already did and looks like the picture below) is a 'i1 Display 3 Pro' by Chromapure.


The CMS system on the JVC projector is pretty outdated and I got a hint from user Manni to use the CMS option that madVR provides. So here I am, at the beginning of calibrating my CMS with my HTPC with madVR.


I followed the guide in the first post and downloaded and installed ArgyllCMS 32-bit and DispcalGUI.


I opened madTPG and enabled fullscreen, disable VideoLUTs and disable 3dlut. It looks like this:



After this I started DispcalGUI and changed all settings according to the guide in the first post. It now looks like this:


Before I m going to proceed I would like to know if all things are good until now.
Thanks guys!

Last edited by sanderdvd; 07-03-2014 at 05:04 AM.
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Old 07-03-2014, 05:44 AM
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think about a correction file and use aero to make sure the screen is not tearing and result in a wrong reading( unlikely but better save then sorry) and by reading your post i think you are on a AMD gpu so tearing is totally normal without aero.

and use the interactive display adjustment to set your device to the right white point.

Last edited by mightyhuhn; 07-03-2014 at 06:06 AM. Reason: removed wrong information "you can use smooth a2b tables it was added for 3d lut creation in mind."
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Old 07-03-2014, 05:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
you can use smooth a2b tables it was added for 3d lut creation in mind.
On the contrary, that setting does nothing for a 3D LUT. You can use it if you want to use the profile for other things (Windows, image editors, etc.).
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Old 07-03-2014, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fhoech View Post
On the contrary, that setting does nothing for a 3D LUT. You can use it if you want to use the profile for other things (Windows, image editors, etc.).
was the first post about this for 3d lut and in the end not useful at all? i wonder where i got this info that's why i ask. i can remember you for posting this feature in this thread.
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Old 07-03-2014, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanderdvd View Post
Before I m going to proceed I would like to know if all things are good until now.
Thanks guys!
It looks okay though you may want a correction if there is one applicable to your display.
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Old 07-03-2014, 11:21 AM
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Reformatted my pc and finally got it working. Running the patches now
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Old 07-03-2014, 03:49 PM
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Because of JPR's post about having dithering turn on in the Ridiance causing problems with the patch accuracy.
Lumagen Radiance Mini-3D VS Accupel DVG-5000 VS ?, digital errors etc...

Now I am going to ask the question about using madVR as a pattern generator with its use of dithering. Will the use of dithering (default) in madVR cause problems with patch accuracy.??

If so, how can I turn off dithering in madVR.??

ss
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Old 07-04-2014, 12:01 AM
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I don't know how the Lumagen does dithering. Dithering is supposed to be different *per pixel* in such a way that it averages to the correct value if you look at multiple neighboring pixels. When doing measurements, the test patterns usually consist of a whole screen of the same color. If you do this with dithering turned on, some pixels might have 1 value lower, while other pixels might have 1 value higher. But if you average all pixels, you should get exactly the desired color value. Now a meter does not measure single pixels, it measures the averaged light output of several neighbor pixels. So dithering should not cause any problems with calibration, IMHO. Furthermore, even *if* the meter would measure only one single pixel, you can setup madVR to change the dithering pattern for every new frame, which means that each pixel will change its dithering value all the time. Again a meter does not measure a pixel for only one video frame, but it measures it over a longer period, so again the dithering should average itself out.

The JRP post about dithering had a different reason: Some user had monitored the Lumagen test pattern output and found that some pixels didn't have the expected values. If this was caused by dithering, this should have no consequence (see above). But the user was concerned that the Lumagen might output wrong pixels *everywhere*, so JRP explained that the "problem" might be caused by dithering, not by the Lumagen outputting incorrect values.

All this said: If the test calibration software driving madVR/madTPG requests color values which don't need dithering, madVR will automatically not use dithering. madTPG only dithers if the calibration software asks for a value which can't be represented without dithering. So basically the calibration software has the option to drive madTPG with un-dithered clean pixels, if it carefully chooses the "right" test pattern colors. Just as an example:

Let's say the calibration software wants to measure grayscale IRE 10. When considering 0.0 as black and white as 1.0, IRE 10 should be 0.1. When using 8bit TV levels output (16-235) this would be 8bit value 37.9. This is a floating point value. So basically madTPG *cannot* technically render this requested test pattern color without using dithering. As a result madTPG will display most pixels as 38 and a few pixels in between as 37. If the calibration software wants to avoid dithering, it could ask madTPG whether the output levels are TV or PC (there's a madTPG API for that) and then the calibration software could be clever enough to round the measured IRE to the nearest cardinal value. So basically the calibration software could ask for (38 - 16)/219 = 0.100456621[...]. This would result in madVR disabling dithering and always outputting 38 for all pixels. Of course the calibration software would then have to change its math a bit to take into consideration that it didn't measure IRE 10, but instead IRE 10.0456621[...]. But that should be quite doable. AFAIK most DVD test patterns round to the next cardinal value, anyway, so using DVD test patterns, the calibration software would probably measure 10.0456621[...], anyway.

BTW, madTPG's dithering quality is probably quite a bit higher than the Lumagen's dithering quality. From what I read (on some forum, so take it with a pinch of salt), the Lumagen uses simple random dithering, which adds quite a bit of extra noise and changes almost every pixel in some way. madTPG's default dithering method is much less noisy and only changes pixels if they need to be changed.
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Last edited by madshi; 07-04-2014 at 12:05 AM.
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Old 07-04-2014, 03:30 AM
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Thanks madshi, I had to ask.

And yes I see your options in madTPG for rendering.

btw I have a NVIDIA Quadro K1100M, is it best to check use other application to control color setting,etc or use NVIDIA and its default setting when using madTPG. ?

Also would it work if I change my video card from RGB to 4:4:4, if so I would turn on support for YC 4:4:4 in my VT60 plasma, is there any other setting I should use in madVR or ArgyII to epitomize that setting.?

Thanks,

ss
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Old 07-04-2014, 03:55 AM
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RGB is the recommend output, with 0-255 levels. You may have to use the madLevelsTweaker to make that work with NVidia GPUs, if you use your GPU's HDMI output. If you configure the GPU to output YCbCr, the GPU driver will convert madVR's RGB output to YCbCr behind madVR's back, which is a bad idea because NVidia's algorithm is probably not highest quality (with dithering etc). It's recommend to leave all settings in the GPU control panel either "off" or set to application control. We don't want NVidia to do some fancy processing (meaning do violence) to madVR's output.
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Old 07-04-2014, 04:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post

All this said: If the test calibration software driving madVR/madTPG requests color values which don't need dithering, madVR will automatically not use dithering. madTPG only dithers if the calibration software asks for a value which can't be represented without dithering. So basically the calibration software has the option to drive madTPG with un-dithered clean pixels, if it carefully chooses the "right" test pattern colors.
Currently it is best to leave dithering on when using the two software packages that support madVR (ArgyllCMS and HCFR). ArgyllCMS sends all triplets exactly as they are defined by targen without regard to whether they represent whole 8-bit integers or not and assumes targets to match.

HCFR sends all triplets percentages as representing video level whole integers (and assumes those targets) so when madVR is set to 16-235 dithering will be disabled but when set to 0-255 (or other) dithering is necessary.
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Old 07-04-2014, 04:54 AM
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Yes, I definitely never recommend to completely turn off dithering in madVR/madTPG. IIRC, madTPG even ignores it if you tell it to do that. If the calibration software doesn't want dithering, it just has to send test pattern colors which end up as 8bit integer values. In that case madVR/madTPG won't apply dithering, anyway.
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Old 07-04-2014, 06:21 AM
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So after following the guide I came up with these results on my JVC RS46 projector

Any comments or tips would be appreciated.
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Old 07-04-2014, 06:23 AM
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Sorry forgot the RGB as well..

Not sure on how close this is I followed the basic guide in the tutorial on the first page.

Any other settings I should try adjusting or play with ?
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Old 07-04-2014, 06:45 AM
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It seems that my gamma is at 2.2

Is it ok to go into madvr settings and change the power curve to 2.4 or is that not the correct way of going about it
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Old 07-04-2014, 08:06 AM
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there is no real rule for gamma. if your room is bright low gamma looks better and if your room is dark high gamma looks better.
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Old 07-04-2014, 08:10 AM
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Basically a bat cave.

How are the rest of the measurements ?
I'm sure not perfect but it's my first time
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Old 07-04-2014, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
think about a correction file and use aero to make sure the screen is not tearing and result in a wrong reading( unlikely but better save then sorry) and by reading your post i think you are on a AMD gpu so tearing is totally normal without aero.

and use the interactive display adjustment to set your device to the right white point.
- correction file: what do you mean with this?
- aero: why do I need Aero??? I disabled all unneccesary 'esthetical' things in windows including Aero (I think)
- use the interactive display adjustment: also not a single clue what you mean here...... (sorry!!)


All these things are not mentioned in the starting post (guide) so I hope you guys don t blame me for asking about these things.
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Old 07-04-2014, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanderdvd View Post
- correction file: what do you mean with this?
- aero: why do I need Aero??? I disabled all unneccesary 'esthetical' things in windows including Aero (I think)
- use the interactive display adjustment: also not a single clue what you mean here...... (sorry!!)
without aero you get tearing and that's not something "esthetical" aero is not part of windows because it can make things shinny. i "crippled" aero to nothing but "desktop composition"
a correction file is a file shipped with your meter this file increase the quality of the calibration. you can grap them by installing the software of your meter and using the automated tool in dispcal gui you find it under tools.



if you don't understand how this works skip it.
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Old 07-04-2014, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fhoech View Post
When using BT.1886, BPC should always be turned off (which it is by default) because BT.1886 already takes care of black level mapping.

Does this mean that the following information on the opening post is incorrect and should be disregarded?

Quote:
2013-05-20 - Elevated black point still exists for some displays/configurations, therefore, Black Point Compensation option should be enabled in DispcalGUI. (step B10)
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Old 07-04-2014, 04:46 PM
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What exactly does Black point compensation do? I can't seem to figure it out based on the documentation. Is it equivalent to the -f0 switch in dispcal.exe?
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Old 07-04-2014, 05:18 PM
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It's explained in this post as removing the black offset directly from the measurements and then rescaling the result (I presume so that white XYZ is mapped back to it's original value). I don't know in practice how similar that result will be to what -f0 achieves in dispcal.
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Old 07-04-2014, 06:27 PM
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Before I run another test can anyone chime in on the graphs posted above in my previous post?

It takes around 2-3 hours for the guide on the first page so I would hate to do it again and not make some proper adjustments
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Old 07-04-2014, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
It's explained in this post as removing the black offset directly from the measurements and then rescaling the result (I presume so that white XYZ is mapped back to it's original value). I don't know in practice how similar that result will be to what -f0 achieves in dispcal.
thanks
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Old 07-04-2014, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
without aero you get tearing and that's not something "esthetical" aero is not part of windows because it can make things shinny. i "crippled" aero to nothing but "desktop composition"
a correction file is a file shipped with your meter this file increase the quality of the calibration. you can grap them by installing the software of your meter and using the automated tool in dispcal gui you find it under tools.



if you don't understand how this works skip it.
Thanks for your reply mightyhuhn.
i "crippled" aero to nothing but "desktop composition": is this what I need to do?: http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials...e-disable.html


meter correction file: I ll need to check at Chromapure but all I got from them is a Licence file for Chromapure but this is not what you mean of course. I know my meter is not a regular OEM i1 Display 3 Pro meter but a meter that was calibrated by Chromapure


Interactive Display Adjustment: I want to know what this is so if you want to explain it to me this would be great
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Old 07-04-2014, 10:55 PM
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yeah you can enable it here don't play around in the services. sometimes you need to enable more settings i don't know why. when aero is disabled or enabled the screen will get black for a sec and the taskbar changes color. but this is the wrong thread to talk about aero. one last thing about aero you should always use aero except you are using FSE fullscreen in MadVR it doesn't real harm there too but it's not needed for tearing free playback i think overlay mode works fine without to not sure.

Interactive display adjustment gives you the possibility to pre calibrate your device . it shows you the current colortemp and the current brightness. so you can change the white point to 6500 by changing the settings of your device same goes for brightness you can setup brightness. i think is was 120 cm² for 100% correct color i don't use 120 cm² so not sure and i don't really care.

and you can add infos like these in the guide this is an total overkill on informations. getting on correction is not an easy task for someone that never did it and not all meter have correction.
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