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post #2791 of 2856 Old 10-26-2014, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony359 View Post
EDIT: apologies, the gamma control of MadVR was set to 1.9! Attached the new gamma, which is now around 2.14.
The curve shape looks like what I'd expect when targeting BT.1886, although it depends on the black level. If you'd like to play with the parameters, you can re-create the 3D LUT (no measurements needed) with different settings, e.g. tweak the gamma slightly or change it from "absolute" to "relative" (in which case you may actually want to lower the gamma from the default 2.4 to 2.2, which will give you a 2.2 response at 50%), and/or add some percentage of output offset.
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post #2792 of 2856 Old 10-28-2014, 03:35 PM
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Thanks for replying!

Can I just use a little more of your time: I open DispcalGUI and select the calibration which was created under "Settings", then I select "create 3Dlut". Besides changing the gamma from absolute to relative, how do I further "tweak" the gamma?
What does the black output offset do? Increase the black level?

Re. the 14fL, false alarm. The lamp has dropped a little, I have 15.1fL with no calibration, I'd say that I am actually quite lucky to have 14.1fL after calibration!

Thanks!
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post #2793 of 2856 Old 10-28-2014, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony359 View Post
Besides changing the gamma from absolute to relative, how do I further "tweak" the gamma?
What does the black output offset do? Increase the black level?
The gamma controls don't affect the black level at all, but do influence shadow detail and the relative brightness of midtones. An output offset of 0% is equivalent to BT.1886-like (input offset), while an output offset of 100% is equivalent to a "pure power" curve.
The difference between "absolute" and "relative" is that "relative" is less influenced by the display black level (i.e. setting gamma to "relative" will give you almost exactly the set gamma value at 50%, while "absolute" will produce a lower effective gamma in most cases. How much lower depends on the black level, the lower the black level, the less difference between "absolute"/"relative" and 0%/100% output offset).
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post #2794 of 2856 Old 10-29-2014, 08:49 AM
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thanks.
I am aware that gamma does not affect the black; what I was wondering is what "black offset" does. Are you saying that black offset is tweaking the gamma?
Thanks for explaining the absolute and relative difference!
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post #2795 of 2856 Old 10-29-2014, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony359 View Post
what I was wondering is what "black offset" does. Are you saying that black offset is tweaking the gamma?
Yes. If you want to get a better idea how it affects the curve shape, you could create a few synthetic profiles with different settings (set black luminance to a value above 0) and view the resulting tone response curves in the curve viewer.
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post #2796 of 2856 Old 11-01-2014, 04:52 AM
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Recently I have a video issue that I can't overcome.
Only my monitor is affected, the secondary projector isn't . After a few seconds of playback, a blueish layer appears on top of the video. If I put an other window on top, the blue layer is on top of that window also. Not only the madVR renderer is affected (playing around the 3dlut doesn't help), if I play a yt video in a browser it also has the blue layer. If I scroll a bit the blue layer lags behind, disappears and appears again randomly. See attached photo and linked video. What is it? Tried reprofiling, disabling profile. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6nL...ature=youtu.be
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post #2797 of 2856 Old 11-01-2014, 05:26 AM
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looks like a defect on the screen or GPU.

a icc or icm profile loaded with dispcalGUI effect the hole screen. a 3D LUT for madVR only affects the madVR window. only a part of the screen is affected by this so this should be an issue with calibration
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post #2798 of 2856 Old 11-01-2014, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
looks like a defect on the screen or GPU.
...
Yes. It was my monitor. An option called "smart video enhance" was turned on (dell U2713h).
It looked software related. Everything but the videos was OK. It must be the default setting. A few weeks ago I did a factory reset, and didn't even know that such a feature existed.
Solved. Thanks!
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post #2799 of 2856 Old 11-01-2014, 01:54 PM
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hi all,

I need a little help.

I have cleaned my projector and upgraded my colorimeter to a Display Pro. I have done another 3DLUT file but... it does not give the desired results.

Let me explain. I followed the instructions at the top of this thread. Created the LUT file and enabled it in madVR. To quickly confirm all is good, I ran the AVS-HD grey scale through MPC-HC and took a manual reading on HCFR. HCFR came out with something pretty awful.

If I run the "measurement report" on dispcalGUI, running the patterns in madTPG, the report comes out as very good.

What am I missing here? It used to work! There should be no windows calibration in place, at least I cannot see anything under "color management".

Suggestions?

Thanks!
Tony

Edit: uhm, maybe after all there was a hidden calibration in the background, now it's removed the measurement report is just as bad as HCFR. Stay tuned.
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post #2800 of 2856 Old 11-01-2014, 02:09 PM
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did used a correction?
HCFR has some i1d3 correction and my used them.

but maybe it was just your background cali. a little strange because madTPG should unload these with default settings...
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post #2801 of 2856 Old 11-01-2014, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
did used a correction?
HCFR has some i1d3 correction and my used them.

but maybe it was just your background cali. a little strange because madTPG should unload these with default settings...
no meter correction enabled and, again, when I disabled the default calibration for that display, even dispcalGUI's report was as bad.

Yes, strange. I have indeed disabled the calibration and 3DLUT on madTPG... I am doing another one right now, let's see what happens.

Edit: all good, happy days. Is there a more reliable way to control the loaded calibrations under windows?
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post #2802 of 2856 Old 11-02-2014, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony359 View Post
Edit: all good, happy days. Is there a more reliable way to control the loaded calibrations under windows?
First you'll have to determine where the unwanted calibration comes from. Could be any of the following:
  • 3rd party calibration software
  • Windows display profile
  • Graphics card driver utility (Intel has been notorious for this)
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post #2803 of 2856 Old 11-02-2014, 10:05 PM
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Hi,
It was just a system calibration profile installed by dispcalGUI, it was a default one and did not appear under the monitor when the "use my settings for this device" was checked. I'm getting more familiar with the way windows handles the profiles now, but I feel a little utility to better handle the calibrations would be nice.
Thanks
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post #2804 of 2856 Old 11-03-2014, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony359 View Post
I feel a little utility to better handle the calibrations would be nice.
Hmm. Introducing another moving part is usually not a very good way to increase simplicity and/or robustness of a process

If I were you, I would reset/disable the videoLUTs when using madVR. Note madTPG will do that automatically when the respective button is toggled on, which is the default. In madVR configuration, you can also disable them during (fullscreen? not sure if this works in windowed mode) video playback via the "disable GPU gamma ramps" checkbox.

Or you could do either of the following:
  • Don't use calibration at all
  • If the 3D LUT incorporates calibration, use a display profile that doesn't
  • Don't apply calibration when creating the 3D LUT, and let it be handled by the display profile (note this may introduce banding because unlike madVR the videoLUT is not dithered, also it seems more fragile than the other options)
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post #2805 of 2856 Old 11-03-2014, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by bisocri View Post
Hi, I have a spectracal c6 colorimeter. I can not do as automatic calibration because dispcalgui said at the start that there is an error "instrument access failed". Anyone had this problem and been able to solve?

Hi,
I have the same problem, there is a solution?
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post #2806 of 2856 Old 11-03-2014, 03:37 PM
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I had "disable GPU gamma ramps" enabled, I did not know that that means "disable calibration", good to know.

The point is that I calibrated and profiled using madvrTPG full screen with video card's calibration disabled and it did not work well, till I found the 'hidden' calibration. Not sure what happened, that's why I was asking for a more reliable way to control what's happening. It happens all the time that you see a profile loaded but the screen is clearly not calibrated.

Quote:
If the 3D LUT incorporates calibration, use a display profile that doesn't
I'm going to ask stupid questions here, apologies. I am calibrating AND profiling, then I create a 3D LUT. Does that mean that my 3DLUT incorporated calibration as well? I believe the answer is yes, but better double check!
With Display Profile you mean the windows profile? Isn't that a calibration itself? I have no profiles associated on my projector. Am I on the right end of the stick?

Quote:
Don't apply calibration when creating the 3D LUT, and let it be handled by the display profile (note this may introduce banding because unlike madVR the videoLUT is not dithered, also it seems more fragile than the other options)
You mean to leave the calibration to windows and just apply the profiling to the 3DLUT? As you say, this looks very "fragile" to me!

Thanks for your input, appreciated!
Tony
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post #2807 of 2856 Old 11-03-2014, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony359 View Post
I had "disable GPU gamma ramps" enabled, I did not know that that means "disable calibration", good to know.

The point is that I calibrated and profiled using madvrTPG full screen with video card's calibration disabled and it did not work well, till I found the 'hidden' calibration. Not sure what happened, that's why I was asking for a more reliable way to control what's happening. It happens all the time that you see a profile loaded but the screen is clearly not calibrated.
think about a bug report in the bug tracker if you are able to reproduce this issue.

http://bugs.madshi.net/
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post #2808 of 2856 Old 11-03-2014, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony359 View Post
The point is that I calibrated and profiled using madvrTPG full screen with video card's calibration disabled and it did not work well, till I found the 'hidden' calibration. Not sure what happened, that's why I was asking for a more reliable way to control what's happening. It happens all the time that you see a profile loaded but the screen is clearly not calibrated.
Usually the only way a vcgt calibration can be active is because a display profile containing one has been consciously installed and assigned (note that under Windows, the vcgt calibration is loaded after installing the profile and from then on after each login via the profile loader, and there may be occasions where badly written display drivers or applications could cause the calibration to be unloaded later on, e.g. after resuming from standby).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony359 View Post
I'm going to ask stupid questions here, apologies. I am calibrating AND profiling, then I create a 3D LUT. Does that mean that my 3DLUT incorporated calibration as well? I believe the answer is yes, but better double check!
Yes, this is what the "Apply calibration (vcgt)" checkbox does.

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Originally Posted by Tony359 View Post
With Display Profile you mean the windows profile? Isn't that a calibration itself?
The profile will contain a calibration in the 'vcgt' tag if calibration tone curve was not set to "as measured" and you used "calibrate & profile".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony359 View Post
I have no profiles associated on my projector. Am I on the right end of the stick?
That should be ok if you only use the projector for content played through madVR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony359 View Post
You mean to leave the calibration to windows and just apply the profiling to the 3DLUT? As you say, this looks very "fragile" to me!
Indeed, I wouldn't recommend it.
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post #2809 of 2856 Old 11-04-2014, 03:44 AM
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Originally Posted by fhoech View Post
The profile will contain a calibration in the 'vcgt' tag if calibration tone curve was not set to "as measured" and you used "calibrate & profile".
I guess you mean "whitepoint", I believe the name has recently changed?

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That should be ok if you only use the projector for content played through madVR.
Yes, that's what I do.

Thanks, it's more clear now!
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post #2810 of 2856 Old 11-04-2014, 03:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony359 View Post
I'm getting more familiar with the way windows handles the profiles now, but I feel a little utility to better handle the calibrations would be nice.
If you don't play with the MadTPG buttons, it will do the right thing.
(i.e. ArgyllCMS makes sure that the correct calibration curves are loaded when
measuring samples).
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post #2811 of 2856 Old 11-04-2014, 03:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sisco123 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by bisocri View Post
I have a spectracal c6 colorimeter. I can not do as automatic calibration because dispcalgui said at the start that there is an error "instrument access failed".
I have the same problem, there is a solution?
You would need to use ArgyllCMS V1.7 beta
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post #2812 of 2856 Old 11-04-2014, 03:54 AM
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Originally Posted by gwgill View Post
If you don't play with the MadTPG buttons, it will do the right thing.
(i.e. ArgyllCMS makes sure that the correct calibration curves are loaded when
measuring samples).
Hi,

I may be mistaken but I am confident that madTPG was set as expected, that is, "Disable VideoLUTs" and "Disable 3dlut" selected. That's why I decided to post here.

When I removed the "hidden" calibration, I checked again using dispcalGUI and madTPG and it was indeed quite off. And those buttons were selected (blue).
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post #2813 of 2856 Old 11-04-2014, 04:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Tony359 View Post
I guess you mean "whitepoint", I believe the name has recently changed?
No, I meant the calibration tone curve setting.
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post #2814 of 2856 Old 11-04-2014, 04:39 AM
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No, I meant the calibration tone curve setting.
Sorry fhoech, I missed that! Yes, sure, it's set to REC 1886.
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post #2815 of 2856 Old 11-04-2014, 12:57 PM
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@madshi

Is there a built-in delay when rendering a pattern using madTPG? And if so can it be shortened? Running madTPG with argyllCMS results in about 25% longer profile times compared to just using the video card directly.
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post #2816 of 2856 Old 11-04-2014, 02:42 PM
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Yes, there's a delay. Basically madVR blocks until the new test pattern is definitely "on screen". This is done by checking the VSync position etc. It might make sense in ArgyllCMS to reduce the ArgyllCMS delay when using madTPG. At least that part of the ArgyllCMS delay which is supposed to make sure that the new test pattern is actually on screen (VSync etc) could be dropped because madTPG already takes care of that.
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post #2817 of 2856 Old 11-04-2014, 02:42 PM
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Disable gpu gamma ram does work in window mode.


Take a extra step and make sure remove the 3dlut (or turn off) under display-calibration in madvr setting before calibrate and profile just to make everything safe. There was a bug that was fixed a while ago, but sometimes magic happens.


When using measurement report for 3dlut in dispcalgui, my experience is that the 3dlut need to be allowed in madtpg(the button) to work correctly.


I haven't done extensive testing but sometimes profile from gpu patches work fine for making 3dlut, sometimes they don't. Where using madtpg patches to calibrate and profile don't work for gpu lut(icm). displays are set to 0-255 in madvr setting

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony359 View Post
I may be mistaken but I am confident that madTPG was set as expected, that is, "Disable VideoLUTs" and "Disable 3dlut" selected. That's why I decided to post here.
My point is that overriding the control that the ArgyllCMS tools have is asking for trouble, since you may mess up something in the sequence. For instance, if a calibration was done and then a profile, the display needs to be set to linear during the calibration and then the calibration curves loaded during the profile. Overriding this with "disable VideoLUTs" will make the profile not work.
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post #2819 of 2856 Old 11-04-2014, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Yes, there's a delay. Basically madVR blocks until the new test pattern is definitely "on screen". This is done by checking the VSync position etc. It might make sense in ArgyllCMS to reduce the ArgyllCMS delay when using madTPG. At least that part of the ArgyllCMS delay which is supposed to make sure that the new test pattern is actually on screen (VSync etc) could be dropped because madTPG already takes care of that.
The Argyll delay is already at it's minimum (100 ms) based on it's own measurement of display update delay. Typically when it uses the video card directly the delay is 350 ms but when using madTPG it's 850 ms so the extra 1/2 second adds about 16 minutes on to a 2000 patch run. Not a huge deal but it would be nice to trim that down if possible.
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post #2820 of 2856 Old 11-04-2014, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwgill View Post
My point is that overriding the control that the ArgyllCMS tools have is asking for trouble, since you may mess up something in the sequence. For instance, if a calibration was done and then a profile, the display needs to be set to linear during the calibration and then the calibration curves loaded during the profile. Overriding this with "disable VideoLUTs" will make the profile not work.
Wouldn't using dispread -K circumvent any problems with "disable VideoLUTs"? (that's how I call dispread in dispcalGUI when madVR is used)
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