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post #121 of 141 Old 11-15-2013, 12:36 AM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post

But the point is that you are on a calibration sub forum, calibration requires a meter and software. If you want to tinker with your TV not a thing wrong with that but doing so by eye is not going to be meet here with much enthusiasm. If you want to learn there are lots of other places to do it without cluttering up this forum with questions that have been answered multiple times.

I think a lot of folks come to this calibration sub-forum because the disc that they buy says it is for calibration, even though it may only have basic test patterns. Even the forum's "AVS HD 709 - Blu-ray & MP4 Calibration" has the word calibration in it. And the instructions tell how to use the basic patterns to adjust a TV's black level, etc.

People may be getting their expectations set that they can do a proper calibration with just a DVD or Blu-ray.

Perhaps there should be another sub-forum on how to use a "calibration" disc for making basic adjustments on a TV. I don't know what you would call it, but perhaps somehow indicate it's for an intermediate level of setting adjustments. Just a thought.
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post #122 of 141 Old 11-15-2013, 01:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike99 View Post

And the instructions tell how to use the basic patterns to adjust a TV's black level, etc.

A long time ago discovering that thread, I thought my black level would have been better doing this but it did not. Sure it made it better than before but with the meter, the greyscale and gamma calibration gave the end result of richer deeper blacks without crush.
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post #123 of 141 Old 11-15-2013, 03:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Vic12345 View Post

My tv has 2 point white balance only,and no cms.The small improvements and hassle dont justify me getting a meter."I have put myself through a lot of anxiety screwing around with tvs colors for years already".There were a few things that i wanted improvement about the tv and has been hard too figure out,but I've figured an acceptable adjustment..The iPad is still better than human vision,and iPad tested that show that it's an accurate display.

Doug B - Do you know if lowering brightness on ipad too minimum is the same color as a low picture level( not much abl)on a plasma? In other words does the color temperature change when you lower brightness? On an ipad that is "displaying an all white screen "it has what looks like a murky green color compared too when the brightness is cranked up.


That's where you are wrong you can still get a very good cal with only two point and the color and tint controls but you need a meter I also guarantee it would be superior to am iPad based eye calibration

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post #124 of 141 Old 11-15-2013, 06:54 AM - Thread Starter
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can seriously drive yourself crazy doing it without a meter.Without a meter getting the midtones,brighttones,washed out abl screens accurate is MUCH HARDER than the darktones/darkscreens...All I got too get good now is the midtones.Probably gonna take another few months too figure out.

If I got a nickel for everytime I thought I had it calibrated it good I'd have a few more dollars,but if I got a penny for everytime I did adjust it I'd be rolling in the dough.
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post #125 of 141 Old 11-15-2013, 07:23 AM
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Honestly I dont get your approach. How many hours have you spent trying to adjust by eye ? It is still not calibrated and never will be by that method. Seems like a small investment in time and money could get you to a much better place.

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post #126 of 141 Old 11-15-2013, 07:56 AM
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As crazy as a carpenter without a rule.
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post #127 of 141 Old 11-15-2013, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by mluder View Post

Whoa... That's harsh.

Of course the human eye cannot calibrate as well as a meter but ask yourself this... How do you watch your screen? With a meter or with your eyes. The meter should/could be the starting point but in the end you should do the final tweaking by eye.

Same goes for audio - an SPL meter will give you accurate volume calibration and built in set-up functions may tweak the equalization but the result is based on what a microphone with all it's idiosyncrasies hears and not what the human ear "sees."

Final user based adjustments are necessary to adjust for a pleasing human experience.

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Reality is harsh and you are dealing with reality not rainbows and unicorns. If the meter is correct, there is nothing else to change or adjust. Period. Now... some displays screw up bad when you calibrate them because they have design problems that don't appear until you begin to make images accurate. Obviously you want to see if the images fall apart after calibration because some of the problems that can happen won't be measurable. But you can't FIX those problems with your eye because the problems are built-in to the display. All you can do is back off on adjustments until the problems go away (making the images much less accurate).

You are making a HUGE mistake in judgment if you think you can do something as simple-sounding as getting white accurate -- because you can't, our vision system has flaws you can't compensate for even when you know the flaws are in play. Get white wrong (and you WILL without a meter) and every color even remotely close to white is inaccurate.

A lot of people have come and gone trying to make your argument "real" and they have ALL failed. Because your argument is indefensible when you understand the issues... like video imaging standards and the limitations of human vision. It doesn't matter that you think we might be inflexible or obsessed... in fact, that has nothing to do with anything. We value accurate images and you can't get there without a meter and software.
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post #128 of 141 Old 11-15-2013, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

Honestly I dont get your approach. How many hours have you spent trying to adjust by eye ? It is still not calibrated and never will be by that method. Seems like a small investment in time and money could get you to a much better place.
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post #129 of 141 Old 11-15-2013, 06:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Chunon- I had 6-8 crts that I used too fiddle around with the colors anytime I could years ago.Now a few hdtvs I've been doing the same.It's like an addiction or habit anytime I get the chance.Takes some stress away,although it sure adds another type of stress..Ive always said once I get it adjusted then I'm just gonna watch it.I don't have plans of going any further than my own tvs..I don't think anyone would want me spending 6 months screwing around with there tv.
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post #130 of 141 Old 11-15-2013, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic12345 View Post

...I don't think anyone would want me spending 6 months screwing around with there tv.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and agree with you.

Adjusting settings according to personal preference is not calibration.
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post #131 of 141 Old 11-15-2013, 07:32 PM
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There, their, they're...look them up some time. It's not that difficult.
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post #132 of 141 Old 11-16-2013, 05:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Was getting some awful colors on all white and light yellow screens like when the scene has a yellow tone.Thats when I realised blue gain goes up no matter how inaccurate it looks in bright white patches on screen.
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post #133 of 141 Old 11-17-2013, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic12345 View Post

Was getting some awful colors on all white and light yellow screens like when the scene has a yellow tone.Thats when I realised blue gain goes up no matter how inaccurate it looks in bright white patches on screen.[/quote

Listen, all the experts here , the pro's included have been telling you that we can't give you any sound advice on calibrating since this requires a meter and calibration software to properly set up your tv to give you an accurate picture. You can keep tweaking to your hearts content , obcession, or addiction but you won't get to where you can be using a meter and calibration software. Just reset everything and leave your tv in movie mode, adjust only the basic settings , contrast , brightness, color/tint, sharpness and enjoy the picture. I am telling you you are just waisting your time , sorry to tell you this , but it's true. Asking all these questions won't help you some of us on here are getting a little fed up . Get a meter and software , a meter that is accurate id3 or c6 and then come and ask of calibration advice. Have yourself a good day.
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post #134 of 141 Old 11-17-2013, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic12345 View Post

Was getting some awful colors on all white and light yellow screens like when the scene has a yellow tone.Thats when I realised blue gain goes up no matter how inaccurate it looks in bright white patches on screen.

You continue to PROVE in public, for everybody to see and read, that you do not understand what you are seeing. At all. You cannot make ANY judgements about blue gain without a meter because YOU CANNOT SEE WHAT IS REALLY HAPPENING. Everything you THINK you are seeing is an optical illusion. We have been telling you this over and over and over again and you continue to ignore this and you continue to make yourself sound stupid in a public forum saying things like this. You CANNOT "see" white accurately... it is IMPOSSIBLE because of the way human vision works. We keep telling you this and you keep ignoring it.

NO HUMAN can adjust white correctly without a meter. It is simply IMPOSSIBLE.

If you need to translate optical illusion for it to make sense, please do that because you cannot stop the optical illusion, it will always happen. Human vision will ALWAYS see the brightest and bluest thing on the screen as white even though it could be very blue. That will make correct colors of white look yellow, but that color of white will be accurate even though it does not LOOK accurate with something brighter and blue-er on the screen at the same time.

You really have to stop posting non-calibration noise/chatter in the calibration thread.

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post #135 of 141 Old 11-17-2013, 03:33 PM
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Utter futility!
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post #136 of 141 Old 11-18-2013, 04:54 PM
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+1

NO HUMAN can adjust white correctly without a meter. It is simply IMPOSSIBLE.
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post #137 of 141 Old 11-18-2013, 09:42 PM
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I think it would be wise to let this thread die. No useful information is being generated at this point, it has really nothing to do with calibration as we all know you cannot "calibrate" by eye.
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post #138 of 141 Old 11-20-2013, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Matt L View Post

I think it would be wise to let this thread die. No useful information is being generated at this point, it has really nothing to do with calibration as we all know you cannot "calibrate" by eye.
Moderator please close this thread smile.gif
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post #139 of 141 Old 11-20-2013, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hungro View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt L View Post

I think it would be wise to let this thread die. No useful information is being generated at this point, it has really nothing to do with calibration as we all know you cannot "calibrate" by eye.
Moderator please close this thread smile.gif
I also suggested that this thread be locked to the moderator via a flagged post report three days ago.
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post #140 of 141 Old 11-20-2013, 01:43 PM
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post #141 of 141 Old 11-20-2013, 04:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Agree
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